Lease or Finance? - Page 2 - 2017+ Chrysler Pacifica Minivan Forums
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-09-2017, 04:54 PM
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Looks like the are pricing the lease high, high "interest rate" and possibly low residual value, as they expect to have a high demand at first. Let things subside and should be able to get a competitive deal on a lease for the Hybrid.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 06:32 PM
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I tried to equalize the capitalized cost between Limited and Platinum. You can see the results below, for given cap cost


Limited : 0 down, MSRP $42,495, cap. cost 41,490
36 months, 10k miles $583
48 months, 10k miles $631


Platinum : 0 down, MSRP $44,995, 46,090 cost, trade in $4,600, cap. cost 41,490
36 months, 10k miles $535
48 months, 10k miles $509


As expected the Platinum is a little lower (since the residual on the platinum would be higher assuming same residual %).


This leads me to believe, the current website lease for Platinum doesn't account for the $7,500 tax credit. If that credit is completely accounted for as a CCR, we should get (without any tax credit in brackets) :


Platinum : 0 down, MSRP $44,995, 46,090 cost, trade in $7,500, cap. cost 38,590
36 months, 10k miles $449 ($671)
48 months, 10k miles $443 ($614)
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by PHfan View Post
I plan to lease our PHEV...I'm worried that the new presidential administration is going to roll back a lot of the EV incentives, and correspondingly auto manufacturers (besides Tesla) are going to lose enthusiasm very quickly for EVs. I can see Chrysler investing very little or even abandoning the Pacifica Hybrid within a year or two. So I don't want to be stuck long-term with a car that might be difficult to service and that won't command much resale value.

Or...the total opposite could happen...EVs continue to flourish and 3 years from now there is a pure electric minivan from Chrysler, Toyota, and Honda. In that scenario I also think the current Pacifica Hybrid might see a big drop in resale value when there are more/better options out there.

Basically, this: I can't post links so just Google "Tesla Aside, Resale Values for Electric Cars Are Still Tanking"

I've never leased before and overall prefer buying, but in this case given all the uncertainty around EVs I think leasing makes sense.
I tend to agree. The resale value will not be there, mainly because without a tax credit or grant, most will NOT buy this vehicle. For most, these cars are just toys or novelties, that can only be government backed to sell any at all.

I believe without subsidies, these cars would hardly sell at all. Even regular hybrids represent a very small (3%?) of sales, and as such, most dealers rarely have a demo to try. How can you sell a car without a demo? Why have demos without demand? It's a chicken before egg issue, with only gov't able to help the decision.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHfan View Post
I plan to lease our PHEV...I'm worried that the new presidential administration is going to roll back a lot of the EV incentives, and correspondingly auto manufacturers (besides Tesla) are going to lose enthusiasm very quickly for EVs. I can see Chrysler investing very little or even abandoning the Pacifica Hybrid within a year or two. So I don't want to be stuck long-term with a car that might be difficult to service and that won't command much resale value.



Or...the total opposite could happen...EVs continue to flourish and 3 years from now there is a pure electric minivan from Chrysler, Toyota, and Honda. In that scenario I also think the current Pacifica Hybrid might see a big drop in resale value when there are more/better options out there.



Basically, this: I can't post links so just Google "Tesla Aside, Resale Values for Electric Cars Are Still Tanking"



I've never leased before and overall prefer buying, but in this case given all the uncertainty around EVs I think leasing makes sense.


This article refers to purely electric vehicles, not hybrids. When you google "resale value for electric hybrids" it looks like resale value is higher for the hybrids. In my case I'd be going for the Limited gas vehicle if I didn't buy the Platinum hybrid, and with the $7500 tax credit it's $100 difference, so it seems like a no brainer.

Last edited by abbski; 01-20-2017 at 10:43 PM.
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 06:42 PM
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In my case I'd be going for the Platinum gas vehicle if I didn't buy the Premium hybrid, and with the $7500 tax credit it's basically the same price, so it seems like a no brainer.
Not sure what you're trying to say here. There is no Platinum gas-only trim, and the Premium Hybrid is actually the lower of the two hybrid trims.

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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 08:11 PM
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Not sure what you're trying to say here. There is no Platinum gas-only trim, and the Premium Hybrid is actually the lower of the two hybrid trims.
I think he's saying the Platinum hybrid minus $7500 federal tax credit roughly equals the Limited MSRP. Which is true...except it seems way more discounts are available on the non-hybrid.

For example, this dealership is advertising 10k off the Limited:

New 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Limited For Sale in Gilroy, CA,Bay Area CA | VIN: 2C4RC1GG5HR653206

Whereas hybrids (for now) seem to be going at basically MSRP. So comparing MSRPs of the two isn't exactly apples to apples.
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PHfan View Post
I think he's saying the Platinum hybrid minus $7500 federal tax credit roughly equals the Limited MSRP. Which is true...except it seems way more discounts are available on the non-hybrid.

For example, this dealership is advertising 10k off the Limited:

New 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Limited For Sale in Gilroy, CA,Bay Area CA | VIN: 2C4RC1GG5HR653206

Whereas hybrids (for now) seem to be going at basically MSRP. So comparing MSRPs of the two isn't exactly apples to apples.
Yes, but the True Car average for the Limited is $3100 off MSRP which includes $2000 in manufacturer rebates, right? Hoping rebates can be used on the hybrid as well.

Last edited by abbski; 01-21-2017 at 06:25 AM.
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 02:45 AM
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Wow, that is ridiculous! Who in the world is going to pay that? Lots of import buying families might take the leap on the Pacifica Hybrid (much as they did with the Volt) but not at that price.
Who in the world will pay that? folks that have a hybrid or plug in AND a minivan already in the driveway. They already have the Hybrid mantra going on in their lives so this only makes sense to them. Far stretch? Anton Wahlman from Seeking Alpha would say no.

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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 03:36 AM
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Whereas hybrids (for now) seem to be going at basically MSRP. So comparing MSRPs of the two isn't exactly apples to apples.
I've seen at least two posts about ordering one with an agreed-upon price that's below msrp.
One said they were getting phev with sunroof (msrp $47885) at invoice minus holdback ($1404) - so $1594 lower than msrp.

Also I *think* the Gilroy ads are $6000 below MSRP and $3500 in rebates. I'm not sure if that includes the Sams club rebate or just the "not taking 0%APR" rebates.
If I say the Sams club is an additional discount then by my calculations the Limited price would be:
$45485
-$6000 sales discount
-$3500 rebates
-$1000 sams rebate
======
$34985

For the PHEV I get:
$47885
-$1594 (sales/negotiation discount)
-$7500 (fed tax credit)
-$1500 (CA tax credit (we're looking at Gilroy, CA))
-$1000 (sams rebate)
======
$36291

So $1306 extra for PHEV.
I think the gas savings will make it worthwhile for me.
Of course maybe with the Limited can negotiate even better deal so it's really a larger delta.
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 09:31 AM
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I think he's saying the Platinum hybrid minus $7500 federal tax credit roughly equals the Limited MSRP. Which is true...except it seems way more discounts are available on the non-hybrid.
The more details reported by hybrid owners, the more it's looking like the Platinum is closer to the Touring L Plus than the Limited. In some regards (like lack of auto dimming mirror), it's actually like a Touring L.

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