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General MPG curiosity

12K views 31 replies 20 participants last post by  Dpacifica 
#1 ·
I know none of you will have the answers now, but just sharing my general curiosity of the future Gas-only MPG of the Hybrid Pacifica.

I am EXTREMELY pleased with the fuel economy of my current Pacifica Limited. Assuming that there is any level of accuracy and it's not exaggerated or falsified, I am averaging low-30s for MPG for my highway commute... some days, it's as high as 33-34 mpg. That (to me) is AMAZING for a vehicle of this size.

I assume that the Hybrid version will NOT be the same powertrain up front (just guessing) and until I get a job where there is EV parking/charging and/or I install one at home, I would want (need) the gas-only efficiency to be as-good if not better than my current Pacifica.

Crossing-fingers. :wink2:
 
#2 ·
Why was this thread moved to the "Lounge" section of the forums...? I posted it in the HYBRID section because it is specifically a curiosity about the HYBRID Pacifica.

EDIT: I just noticed the new sub-section about MPG, etc... but this really is HYBRID-centric.

*sigh* - okay, I guess.
 
#3 ·
On the gas-only MPG of the Hybrid model - in the Picifica brochure (on page 7) it states the following:

"Look to the Hybrid technology for outstanding fuel economy of 80 MPGe,* a 30-mile electric range,* and a total driving range of 530 miles* with V6 powertrain and charge. The Hybrid model may be plugged in and electrically charged, as well as through regenerative braking by the gasoline engine."

I'm interpreting that as 530 miles "total", so 30 miles of pure electric (@ 80 MPGe), followed by 500 miles of "hybrid" (@ X MPG). Further on in the brochure (page 27) it states that the Hybrid model has a 16.5 gallon fuel tank (the gas model having 19 gallons).

With this info and assuming 500 is an optimistic figure, as marketing documents usually are, then X should be 500 miles /16.5 gallons = 30.3 MPG. Lower than I had hoped but clearly better than the Gas model's supposed 22 MPG combined. Maybe I've made a mistake or am wrong in an assumption but that's my expectation for gas-only MPG at the moment.

Source: Pacifica brochure - https://www.chrysler.com/assets/pdf/brochures/eBrochure-ChryslerPacifica.pdf
 
#4 ·
Yeah - I've seen the current vague stats and have done the same math - but we do not know for sure.
I am not a fan of the "combined" MPGe ratings... just tell me the combustion MPG and the electric range and be done with it. :)

I am hoping that the Hybrid version gets released in the next cpl months. Not like I'll be trading-in THAT soon, but it would be helpful to know.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Great overall MPG, but this

Overall, I have been very impressed with the fuel efficiency of the Chrysler Pacifica. I have been averaging almost 27 MPG on long highway trips with the ACC activated with maximum occupants and luggage. I have one issue, the fuel tank is only 19 gallons! Although this is not the end of the world, it does call for more frequent fuel stops on the highway which is fine with my wife and two daughters for potty breaks. In comparison, our Honda Odyssey had a 21 gallon tank, good for an easy 500 miles with mixed driving conditions. The Pacifica will get you about 400 before the low fuelwarning light appears on the dashboard. This difference in tank size is not that big of a deal, but I did get spoiled with the larger tank on our previous minivan. All-in-all, I would say, size does matter, but despite the smaller tank, I still love the Pacifica. It is the best minivan I have owned for overall comfort, fuel efficiency and versatility.
 
#6 ·
I'm wondering how this will do in mountainous regions. We always lose some fuel economy because of having to travel up mountains here but those with hybrids say they don't lose too much on theirs. This is a much bigger car than most of the other hybrids on the market at the moment though.
 
#7 ·
... but those with hybrids say they don't lose too much on theirs.
My guess is that because with electricity, the energy consumed to get UP a mountain can be reclaimed going down via gravity and regenerative braking - whereas fossil fuel power gets burnt and any braking reduces stored energy/inertia into heat - not reusable energy.
 
#8 ·
I will put this question here rather than starting a new thread. In driving, say the Prius, one can put a light pressure to the pedal to keep the regen from engaging and allow the vehicle to coast like any gas powered vehicle. I haven't seen anyone comment on this ability in driving this hybrid. Is the push to have all decisions made about electric and gas use by this vehicle remove coasting as ever taking place?
 
#9 ·
In my Nissan Leaf I actually put the car in Neutral, while at speed, to accomplish coasting. Yes, you can also try to keep light pressure on the accelerator pedal to keep the gauge between regen and power usage. In reality, though, you are doing a little bit of one or the other. I don't know if using neutral on the Pacifica will be practical. They have described their approach as trying to make everything seamless for the driver so that they don't have to change driving modes or do anything special.
 
#13 ·
FWIW

The us govt 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid has Chrysler's city and highway data, so I personalized there report with 100% city and 100% highway.

100% Highway................................................ 43 MPGe and 31 MPG. ... should be 78.37 MPGe
100% City ..................................................... 38 MPGe and 32 MPG. ... should be 88.68 MPGe
Default of 45% highway, 55% city driving: 84 MPGe and 32 MPG.

No idea why the MPGe figures did that. It's definitely bad math in the calculations, because it is also reporting 38 kWh/100mi in the 100% city case which would be 100 / (38/33.7) = 88.68 MPGe (1 gallon of gasoline=33.7 kWh) and 43 kWh/100mi in the 100% highway case.

Looks like these vans get essentially the same 31-32 MPG in city or highway. Compare with gas only Pacifica at 18 City, 28 Highway
 
#14 ·
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#15 ·
I'm new here. I just bought a 2017 Pacifica Touring-L yesterday and was curious if most owners find the gas mileage computer to be accurate. I drove about 50 miles to a dealer in another town to buy mine. I traded a '13 Kia Soul (Exclaim) in on this. I checked the fuel mileage of the Kia on the trip over and got 27 mpg. On the way home in the Pacifica I got 30.6. I was shocked that such a big vehicle could get better mileage than a tiny Soul. To test it further, I reset the trip computer and did an 80 mile trip at 70 mph and got 31.4 mpg! Today, I filled it and reset the computer so I can check it properly with math next time.

Is this about what I should be getting? I drive very light footed and mostly use cruise control wherever possible.

Thanks,
Brian
 
#16 ·
No idea on the accuracy of the computer, but those numbers are plausible, even for a non-hybrid. My '09 Civic is rated at 31 hwy, and I've gotten northwards of 40 in ideal conditions. You'll get the best gas mileage when you're going ~60 MPH, cruise control, no A/C, windows closed.
 
#18 ·
#20 ·
The heater is a 7-kW heater, just depends on how long and how much you run it. If you sit in a parking lot, you could heat the car for almost 2.5 hours at full power (16kWh/7kW).

In my Ford C-max, the car is fully heated in 15-20 minutes at ~0F temperatures with its 6kW heater. Though, my wife chooses to drive with the main heater off and just uses the heated seats, which is less than 500W. A/C definitely uses much less in the C-max (~1kW), but has to run longer. Further, the Pacifica is much larger space to condition.

Oh, of course, the battery would provide 16 kWhr of charge in colder temperatures either.
 
#21 ·
My first impression of the MPG and range is to not believe what is displayed.
I get 26 MPG indicated with a range of 280 miles with a n almost full tank.
The reason I don't believe it is: So far the engine has only run about 10 miles and a lot of that was a cold engine when you punch it a little. Need to get it out on the highway with the battery depleted.
The range made no sense at all. 280 miles to go with about 15 Gal in the tank implies 18.6 MPG?

I am getting 36+ miles on the battery indicated, which is good.

We have only had it a couple days
 
#24 ·
So what the heck is the MPG display anyway? There does not seem to be an explanation in the owners manual.
I reset the trip 1 and drove 12.6 miles on electric only. The MPG said 67 MPG. This must be MPGe since there were 0 Hybrid miles..
If so why doesn't the manual say so?

So if it's a mixed gas and electric trip, it must be a blend of MPGe and MPG
 
#25 ·
I'm still trying to figure out my mileage as well, but here is what I have so far. Filled up on Sunday and had 100% charge. Can't remember what the computer was showing as our range, but we've driven 461.3km so far, 218.3km on electric and 243km on hybrid mode (currently shows hybrid range remaining of 317km). CPU is indicating our mileage at 6.8L/100km so far, which would mean that we have burned 16.5L of gas. Based on our costs in Ontario, with gas at $1.10/L and with 4 electric "fill-ups" (based on $0.135/kw/h) we have spent a total of approximately $27CAD for 461km of travel. Our old van ('09 VW Routan) routinely used around 12L/100km of fuel, so around 55L for the same distance, or about $60CAD in fuel.
 
#26 ·
So I have been watching the "mpg" while driving electric only the last few days and I am not clear what Chrysler is doing for the mpg calculation. Is it one to one with the MPGe meaning that EPA would be 84 MPGe and any number below that would be less than EPA? I was hoping for some miles per KWh information as that would be more useful, but I am trying to figure out what the numbers we are getting mean so that I can calculate afterward if needed. Obviously higher is better on the MPG, but I don't know how well I am doing. I do get 33-38 miles on a charge though so I am guessing that I am doing ok MPGe wise; just would expect to be seeing numbers higher than 84mpg if true.


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#27 · (Edited)
Ignore the computed MPG

First, I am pretty sure that when driver on "electric only" the Pacifica kicks on the gas engine under certain conditions such as going up hills.

The computed MPG is vitually meaningless as is the "range".

I "filled" up my tank recently with 6.5 gallons of gas after driving 294 miles. The MPG which I had reset with the trip computer was listed as 36, but if you do the math it should have been 45. If you figure the MPG for the only gas miles driven (108) then it would be a lousy 17 MPG.

Here is what the Trip computer said after using 6.5 gallons:

Battery: 186 mi
Gas: 108 mi
Total: 294 mi
36.4 MPG

If someone can figure hwo the heck the computer came up with 36.4, let me know. I think it is because some of those battery miles also used gas.

And if anyone is wondering 294 miles / 6.5 gallons = 45.2 MPG (not bad for a minivan)

As for the "range". I still had 10 gallons of gass left. The range at the time was shown as 240 miles! So did the car really think I was getting only 24 MPG with gas/hybrid?
 
#28 ·
First, I am pretty sure that when driver on "electric only" the Pacifica kicks on the gas engine under certain conditions such as going up hills.

The computed MPG is vitually meaningless as is the "range".

I "filled" up my tank recently with 6.5 gallons of gas after driving 294 miles. The MPG which I had reset with the trip computer was listed as 36, but if you do the math it should have been 45. If you figure the MPG for the only gas miles driven (108) then it would be a lousy 17 MPG.

Here is what the Trip computer said after using 6.5 gallons:

Battery: 186 mi
Gas: 108 mi
Total: 294 mi
36.4 MPG

If someone can figure hwo the heck the computer came up with 36.4, let me know. I think it is because some of those battery miles also used gas.

And if anyone is wondering 294 miles / 6.5 gallons = 45.2 MPG (not bad for a minivan)

As for the "range". I still had 10 gallons of gass left. The range at the time was shown as 240 miles! So did the car really think I was getting only 24 MPG with gas/hybrid?


When you have EV range, the car will not turn the engine on unless you go over 50% throttle, go over about 75mph, it is really cold and you are calling for lots of heat, or you have driven enough miles without gas that the van has decided to run the engine to keep the gas from going stale.

When I drive in EV I will typically stay in EV the entire time unless I have to overtake quickly or have a really steep hill to climb as you mentioned. However, when I deplete the battery and run on gas only for a trip, the split in miles is still more Electric than "Hybrid". What I don't understand about that is that Hybrid by definition is using gas and energy stored in the battery from running the gas engine; so it is all gas. If driving in Hybrid mode you should only get miles in the Hybrid category for the numbers to make sense. Maybe they can update the firmware at some point to give us useful info. As it is, we have mpg based on who knows what while on electric only, range that is terribly conservative most the time, and trip gauges with electric/Hybrid splits which make no sense. It is almost impossible to figure out how you are really doing efficiency wise with all of this going on.

I will have to start running a kill-o-watt on the charger and calculating the mpg by hand to figure it out I think.


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#29 ·
I think the computer is calculating your miles driven so far, plus what range you have remaining to come up with your current average MPG. So, 294 miles plus the 240 range you have remaining is 534 total miles divided by the gas tank size, less a little for driving on fumes, so say 15 gallons gives you 35.6mpg.
 
#30 ·
An ICE motor gets 30% efficiency from burning gas at best in pushing the car forward. That is when the gearing is in optimal range of RPM and providing torque to ground and all. However in this hybrid the ICE is generating electricity through torque to the electric motor. I would imagine that efficiency can be sustained optimally since the electric generation is not requiring as great of torque as road push and can be runned optimally. This extra time running at optimal manner would give battery power to storage beyond driving torque. The loss might be less because the efficiency of the ICE can be stored in battery relative to no option of storage in needing the engine to provide road torque at all RPM's and gearing and therefore less efficiency.
I am not saying that suddenly energy is being created without gasoline being burned in hybrid mode but that there is a possibility to store in the batteries energy not needed for torque to the ground in torque to generation paying forward for use from electric motors with their 90% efficiency torque to ground when needed. The gasoline engine is dual purposed at higher efficiency than it can be as the sole torque to ground without battery storage.
 
#32 ·
I can confirm now that the MPG displayed for EV only driving is the MPGe. I used two EV only trips calculating the miles driven, MPG displayed, battery percentage and kWh used to charge. Please check my math below

EPA info:
33 miles on full charge
3370/40 kWh per 100 miles = 84.25 MPGe
100/33 mile range = 3.03 full charges to go 100 miles
40/3.03 = 13.2 kWh used to charge from empty to full

First trip:

21.8 miles driven
48% battery remaining displayed
99.7 mpg displayed
7.168 kWh used to full battery
7.168/13.2 = .543 or 54.3% battery used
21.8/.543 = 40.15 miles range
100/40.15 = 2.49 charges to go 100 miles
2.49*13.2 = 32.88 kWh to go 100 miles
3370/32.88 = 102.49 calculated MPGe

99.7 MPG reported versus 102.49 MPGe calculated

Second trip:

No charging opportunity so just going by displayed

22 miles driven
36% battery remaining
83.8 MPG displayed
13.2*.64 = 8.448 kWh used
22/.64 = 34.38 miles range (display showed 13 remaining; 13+22=35)
100/34.38=2.91 charges to go 100 miles
2.91*13.2=38.39 kWh to go 100 miles
3370/38.39=87.78 calculated MPGe

83.8 MPG reported versus 87.78 MPGe calculated

These numbers are of course not perfect, but they are close enough by my calculations to consider the MPG displayed in the PacHy as being the MPGe. Unfortunately, as soon as you run out of EV only range and the gas kicks in the number will get a lot more complicated. Also, it is hard to tell how close the percentage displayed is to the actual percentage available for EV only range.



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