Stop-Start Battery went bad - Page 3 - 2017+ Chrysler Pacifica Minivan Forums
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post #21 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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"The typical charging voltage is between 2.15 volts per cell (12.9 volts for a 12V 6 cell battery) and 2.35 volts per cell (14.1 volts for a 12V 6 cell battery). These voltages are appropriate to apply to a fully charged battery without overcharging or damage."

"All Lead acid batteries (Gel, AGM, Flooded, Drycell, etc) are made up of a series of 2.2 volt cells that are bridged together in series to reach their final desired voltage. For instance, a 6 volt battery will have 3 cells (3 x2.2= 6.6 volts), a 12 volt battery will have 6 cells (6 x2.2=13.2 volts) and so on.That 2.2 volts is the fully charged, straight off the charger number. The actual resting voltage, or the voltage a battery will settle at 12-24 hours after being removed from the charger, is closer to 2.1 volts per cell, or about 6.4 volts for a 6v battery, and 12.7 volts for a 12v battery. These numbers assume 100% healthy cells, and may vary a bit lower for older batteries."

I was getting 12.46 v after more 10 hours without charging or at rest. I do not know if that difference from 12.7 v means the battery is bad.

Answering my own question: "It's a good place to start, though. This is called the “open cell” or “resting” voltage of the battery. Resting fully charged 12 volt batteries are around 12.8-12.9 volts, and flat dead ones are at 12.0 volts, so 12.4 volts on a resting battery means it's about 50% charged." So my small battery has just 50% of charge!

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Last edited by citanic; 02-12-2019 at 08:24 AM.
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post #22 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 08:33 AM
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After a night of being at rest, I measure the voltage in the small battery and I got 12.46v. But this is without a load. I have seem batteries measuring without load 12v or more and as soon as you connect any load they die.

The voltage of the big battery with the car running is 14.1v.

One thing that the technician was telling me was that if the big battery was going bad the stop-start feature may not trigger. Go figure. I do not think that the guy knew too well the system. Other things that he told me was that they have replaced a lot of the small batteries up to the point that they went on back order at one point. He also mentioned that they tried an aftermarket battery but he did not like it because it was not fitting very well in the little compartment or place that holds the small battery.

So here I'm @ChryslerCares , to replace the batteries the instrument needs to return the code they will submit later to Chrysler to get paid for the battery replacement under warranty. And that's not happening. I have a second appointment for this saturday where they will test again both batteries. If nothing comes out wrong then they said that next step is for them to open a ticket with Mopar to get what to do next.
The 12.46 represents roughly an 80% charge level. Lookup a voltage vs. state of charge chart for AGM batteries. Agreed that voltage alone is not a sufficient indicator of battery state of charge or health.

The 14.1 is the alternator output, not so much the battery voltage. Thatís actually at the low end for charging an AGM battery and tends to indicate the battery is quite fully charged at that point.

Iíve given up trying to understand the start stop system. It works when it wants to, not when I think it should. Whether thatís because itís clever or buggy, I canít tell.
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post #23 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by monza View Post
You might get some useful information by measuring the voltage on the batteries with a voltmeter after the van has been sitting for a few hours.
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Originally Posted by Shadow5501 View Post
The 12.46 represents roughly an 80% charge level. Lookup a voltage vs. state of charge chart for AGM batteries. Agreed that voltage alone is not a sufficient indicator of battery state of charge or health.

The 14.1 is the alternator output, not so much the battery voltage. That’s actually at the low end for charging an AGM battery and tends to indicate the battery is quite fully charged at that point.

I’ve given up trying to understand the start stop system. It works when it wants to, not when I think it should. Whether that’s because it’s clever or buggy, I can’t tell.
Thanks @Shadow5501 , so we both agree, 12.46v is not good.

And I agree, this whole ESS is really confusing. No information at all of how that small battery is being used. The guy at the dealer was telling me that the small battery also was powering the electronics in the car... I was under the impression that the big battery was the one powering all those. When the car stops using the ESS I do not believe that that small battery will be enough to power the fans (I don't think the AC is on at that point) and the rest of the electronics (including the main computer). It does not sound right.

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post #24 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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It really piss me off that the stop-start feature has been working for almost a year and now it's not. I really hate to have features in my NO-CHEAP car that do not work and that I paid for them.

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Last edited by citanic; 02-12-2019 at 12:09 PM.
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post #25 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 10:20 AM
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They tested the small battery and the tool they used said the battery is good. But, the car says that it still charging so stop-start is unavailable. l think that I'm going to need @ChryslerCares here.
Hi @citanic ,

I'm sorry to hear that you are having a tough time with the battery in your Pacifica. Please send us a private message so that we can look into this further.

Darlene
Chrysler Social Care Specialist
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post #26 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Hi @citanic ,

I'm sorry to hear that you are having a tough time with the battery in your Pacifica. Please send us a private message so that we can look into this further.

Darlene
Chrysler Social Care Specialist
Done Darlene.

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post #27 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 12:07 PM
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Thanks @Shadow5501 , so we both agree, 12.46v is not good.

And I agree, this whole ESS is really confusing. No information at all of how that small battery is being used. The guy at the dealer was telling me that the small battery also was powering the electronics in the car... I was under the impression that the big battery was the one powering all those. When the car stops using the ESS I do not believe that that small battery will be enough to power the fans (I don't think the AC is on at that point) and the rest of the electronics (including the main computer). It does not sound right.
I donít have time right now to play with my voltmeter, but over the years Iíve put one on a bunch of batteries, some right off the charger and almost new, and 12.46 is just fine. Resting voltage just doesnít mean that much to a batteryÖ What matters is current output under load.

Hereís some clarification from the factory service manual on your above question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2017 Pacifica Service Manual
How does the ESS system function - simple overview:

- ESS shuts the engine off when the vehicle stops

- The vehicle has to be stopped for a pre-set time before the engine is switched off

- Then, it restarts when the driver releases the brake to move the vehicle

- The system senses brake pedal position and vehicle speed to determine that the vehicle is moving

- Powertrain calibration makes the decision when to shut off the engine and when to restart the engine again

- The ESS function is transparent to the driver

- When the engine stops, a smaller secondary battery keeps accessory features powered, like the fan, wipers, headlights, audio system, etc.

- A Dual Battery Control and Power Relay Control are used to smooth out voltage dips when the starter cranks the engine
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post #28 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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BTW, I found this information:

http://media.fcanorthamerica.com/new...e.do?&id=15722

Quote:
ESS works this way:
Engine controls constantly monitor vehicle speed
When the vehicle brakes to a stop, fuel flow is cut and engine turns off Ė events that save gas and reduce emissions
Beefier batteries maintain other vehicle systems so in-cabin comfort is unaffected
When the brake pedal is released, the engine automatically restarts and the nine-speed automatic transmission, the segment-exclusive nine-speed automatic transmission is engaged Ė all within 0.3 seconds
So, yes, the ESS battery maintains the computer + other systems so in-cabin comfort is unaffected. In my mind, all that was supported by the main battery.

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post #29 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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BTW, here in this forum I found also this post:

https://www.pacificaforums.com/forum...tml#post537999

I wonder if that battery goes back on me, if doing this trick will allow me to keep using the car.

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post #30 of 68 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TomB985 View Post
I donít have time right now to play with my voltmeter, but over the years Iíve put one on a bunch of batteries, some right off the charger and almost new, and 12.46 is just fine. Resting voltage just doesnít mean that much to a batteryÖ What matters is current output under load.

Hereís some clarification from the factory service manual on your above question:
Question, if the battery is removed, will the car start and function as normal? I'm preparing for the worse, the battery failing.

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