Compare EV and Plug-in Hybrids - 2017+ Chrysler Pacifica Minivan Forums
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post #1 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Compare EV and Plug-in Hybrids

Hey Pacifica Plug-in Hybrid enthusiasts,
I was browsing looking for a local Plug-in America event I could show the public the great PacHy at, and ran across a link to PlugStar. This has a great comparison feature to line up ALL the EV and Plug-in Hybrids that are available by area code. I was happy to see my/our PacHy among the options and it really stands out from the crowd when looking at the miles in EV and the total range as compared to other larger vehicles. In fact, looking at the fancy European options like BMW and Mercedes and Jaguar, some of them only offer EV in the first 11-17 miles. Why bother! With a net starting price after incentives of $32K, I think the PacHy is a real deal and comparable price to the regular model as well as the competition non-hybids.
ONE QUESTION, see the link of the feature on PlugStar showing the Pacifica Hybrid monthly sales. I was VERY surprised to see the PacHy sales nationally at only about 600 units per month. Why so low?

https://plugstar.zappyride.com/cars

I would think Chrysler could so some advertising if it wanted and make this 6000 units monthly easily! If all minivan purchasers were made aware of the "similar to non-hybrid" net price, and the vast difference in annual operating costs (lower gas use), I would think the PacHy is at the top of the pack as far as choices. I'm comparing Odessey and Sienna in this mix. I understand exceptions such as if someone wants AWD with a Sienna as an option. But otherwise, PacHy should be a first choice.
This coming from me, a guy who had never purchased an American brand car before and thought he never would!
I'm really enthusiastic about the PacHy if you haven't figured this out yet, and wonder why Chrysler doesn't take advantage of it's real gem of a product before the competition starts offering plug-in hybrids among minivans. Someone call the Marketing folks at Chrysler and wake them up!
What to my other PacHy enthusiasts think? I welcome your honest opinions.
ps. I understand the first 2017 model year had issues, but since 2018, I think it is a great product. Please concentrate your responses on 2018+ models.

Current happy owner/operator of 2019 Pacifica Hybrid Limited. Previous happy owner of a 2018 Pacifica Hybrid Touring L, and before that a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid.
2019 Pacifica Hybrid Limited, White with alloy intererior, Nav, safetytec, tri-pane sunroof, all weather mats/cargo liner for the Newfs. Enjoying multiple $7,500 EV rebates thanks to the tax code!
True odometer measured mileage on full charge = 30-34.
True average MPG on highway 30-33.
True range (ICE+EV) leaving at least 2 gallons in the 16.5 gallon tank = ~450 miles.


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Last edited by Newfoundland; 02-10-2019 at 09:59 AM. Reason: correction
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post #2 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 12:06 PM
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The Pacifica has the stigma of being a minivan. Lots of people won't even consider it even if it fits their needs the best. I was in that camp before the Pachy came out and bought a '16 Highlander. Traded that in for the '19 Pachy and am loving the combination of size, fuel economy, and family friendliness of it.
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post #3 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 12:11 PM
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I own a gas Pacifica so not a PacHy enthusiast but I did think about buying a PacHy. I don't think the FCA marketing folks need to be woken up. Increasing PacHy sales from 600 per month to 6000 would not be easy. 6000 per month would represent roughly 60% of all Pacifica's sold on an annual basis. Electric vehicles in any form are no where near 60% of new vehicle sales across the entire market. I think doubling the sales of the PacHy would be a challenge with even a wide awake marketing staff. After all, this is a mini van. Buyers tend to shy away from mini vans in favor of SUVs.

I chose a gas model for some basic reasons:
Although it would be intriguing to drive electric, the annual savings were not high enough based on my driving.
The PacHy stripped out too many features, when compared to the Limited gas model, including stow-n-go second row and zero towing capacity.
Unknown battery replacement cost and life. I keep my vehicles a long time so the cost to replace the battery becomes a factor.
Resale value of the hybrid compared to a gas model in 8 to 10 years.
Did not know enough on how a hybrid would operate in cold, northern climate. Would I be happy with performance or sacrifices during winter months? Now I know I probably would be okay, but then I did not.

Some reasons FCA may not want to put a lot of marketing cost/effort (which includes educating consumers on hybrid technology) into the PacHy:
The profit margin for the PacHy is likely lower than the gas model
The PacHy is affordable only because of government subsidies which run out when sales quantities reach thresholds or could be eliminated entirely sooner.
This is relatively new technology for FCA. There is risk in selling too many, too soon. Unanticipated problems can cost lots of $$$ across a higher sales number.
FCA may have manufacturing limits as to how many PacHy's they can build based on battery availability, etc. (Look at the manufacturing problems Tesla is having in ramping up their sales and they have been at it awhile)

I'm sure there are other factors but it is not a simple or cheap thing to increase PacHy sales to 6,000/month.
I am glad for your experience, and others, with the PacHy. It is a good vehicle.
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post #4 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 12:23 PM
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Funny, just watched a PacHy commercial on TV (CBS). Maybe FCA got your message.
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post #5 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 04:31 PM
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I've read in several places that PHEV hybrids are big money losers per vehicle. High horsepower electric motors and large batteries are very expensive, plus the costly technology to support battery cooling and power crossover systems. Chrysler probably just wants to build enough to be in the game, and let the gas vehicle production absorb the losses. Regular hybrids have much smaller, less complicated (and cheaper) electrical components.

I don't understand the enthusiasm of some people who think this will save the planet. The thoughtful verdict is not in on that yet. Remember when those spiral light bulbs (now deemed poisonous) were touted as going to save the planet? Not everything is as it is blindly painted by the green advocates.
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post #6 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 08:11 PM
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I don't understand the enthusiasm of some people who think this will save the planet. The thoughtful verdict is not in on that yet. Remember when those spiral light bulbs (now deemed poisonous) were touted as going to save the planet? Not everything is as it is blindly painted by the green advocates.
Plug-in hybrids are always going to be a stop-gap between conventional gasoline cars and a fully electric future, nobody sees them as a solution in and of themselves. They're a compromise that gets more people familiar with charging and driving a plug-in car and saves some gas in the process.

All fluorescent lamps contain mercury, whether they're tubular lamps we've been using for 70 years or the compact ones we've had for 30. They didn't fall out of favor because they were "deemed poisonous", but because LEDs eventually surpassed them on price, efficiency, durability, dimmability, and light quality.

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post #7 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-10-2019, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Newfoundland View Post
In fact, looking at the fancy European options like BMW and Mercedes and Jaguar, some of them only offer EV in the first 11-17 miles. Why bother!
The European hybrids use the electric portion of the drivetrain for added performance, not fuel economy. Think Porsche, Volvo, Mercedes.
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post #8 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 03:18 AM
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Most people still want a SUV or maybe Truck .

Most people still want a SUV or maybe a Truck .
Except for the Electric enthusiasts where they may want a fully electric vehicle. Also a car in the 40 to 50k range is a lot for most people . Some of these Trucks are 50 k and they are absolute
gas hogs. Then you need a charging station . Lets face it 115volts is just not going to cut it. Yeah it drives great and if you don't have a problem with it , the problems have not been trivial though.
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post #9 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 08:37 AM
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A lot of people buying minivans opt for the lower cost trim/packages... after all, if you want one for a young/growing family, then you may also have concerns that it's going to get trashed by spills and other mishaps... and since you have to wait until you file taxes for the $7500 rebate, people don't always factor that into the cost. Plus missing features in the Hybrid (stow-and-go is the biggest and power folding 3rd row, but 2018 didn't have memory seats or folding mirrors if I recall correctly) was another drawback for some. I see a lot of gas Pacificas in my area, but only 2-3 Hybrids in the 18 months I've had mine.

Then again, a number of EV enthusiasts don't like the features of the Hybrid. You can't toggle between ICE and electric mode, the regenerative braking isn't really strong enough for 1-pedal driving, and 30ish miles is pretty short range if you're trying to avoid gasoline completely.

Personally I love mine and have had minimal problems, even though it's a 17. It's mainly a hauler (brought home an 8-ft tree and assorted other plants last weekend) but still accommodates family when we all get together, I've gone from refueling weekly to once every 6-8 weeks, is comfortable for roadtrips (and don't have to charge for 30 minutes every 200 miles like my husband's EV). I went from a smart forTwo coupe to my PacHy, and I think I'm saving money on fuel. Plus my husband commented that he likes driving my van and misses its advanced safety features when he drives his older Tesla model S. So I agree that it's a great vehicle, but I'm not surprised that not everyone is going to want one.
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post #10 of 86 (permalink) Old 02-11-2019, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your input Waldo. Yes, unfortunately environmental concerns seem to have been politicized, so I decided not to even go near that subject. I instead, just pointed out all the benefits to the individual consumer of a PacHy.

Current happy owner/operator of 2019 Pacifica Hybrid Limited. Previous happy owner of a 2018 Pacifica Hybrid Touring L, and before that a Hyundai Sonata Hybrid.
2019 Pacifica Hybrid Limited, White with alloy intererior, Nav, safetytec, tri-pane sunroof, all weather mats/cargo liner for the Newfs. Enjoying multiple $7,500 EV rebates thanks to the tax code!
True odometer measured mileage on full charge = 30-34.
True average MPG on highway 30-33.
True range (ICE+EV) leaving at least 2 gallons in the 16.5 gallon tank = ~450 miles.


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