Amount of Hybrids to Gas Models sold? - 2017+ Chrysler Pacifica Minivan Forums
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Amount of Hybrids to Gas Models sold?

I was talking to my dealer yesterday in Fort Worth, Texas, they are big dealer here in Texas.
He said they sell very very few Hybrids vs Gas Models.
He claimed they are not popular here, lack of rebates / discounts available, higher cost and their lack of stocking.
I now know my gas mileage is at least 7-9 mpg (around town about 17 mpg) less than a hybrid would have been.

I see now that the only way to get the Advanced safety tech package is to get a limited and once you and the S package the retail goes up to $48,580 verses a loaded Touring L at $41,265 with much higher rebates available. That could mean a $10,000 or more difference, that will be a lot of gas!

Any comments?

@019 Pacifica Touring L Advanced Safety Tech Group, S Appearance Package, Premium Audio Group, Key Sense, Uconnect 4C NAV w/ 8.4 " Display and Jazz Blue

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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 01:44 AM
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Last year in the US, Chrysler sold about 7,000 hybrids and 111,000 gas models. The reason why they don't sell well is they don't know how to sell it. Texas did have a $2500 state rebate that expired in March. Plus up to $7500 tax credit so the hybrid could cost less than the gas version. It costs me about $1 to drive 30 miles of electric range vs $2.50 for gas.
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 10:48 AM
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yeah i save about 40% vs gas model


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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by triggerhappy007 View Post
Last year in the US, Chrysler sold about 7,000 hybrids and 111,000 gas models. The reason why they don't sell well is they don't know how to sell it. Texas did have a $2500 state rebate that expired in March. Plus up to $7500 tax credit so the hybrid could cost less than the gas version. It costs me about $1 to drive 30 miles of electric range vs $2.50 for gas.
Some other things to consider on that 7k to 111k ratio is how many of those 111k were fleet orders. A good chunk of Pacificas likely go to rental fleets. I doubt very many of the 7k PacHys were fleet orders (although it is true that Waymo bought some).

Then there's the trim levels. PacHys are restricted to Limited, Touring L, and Touring Plus, all the highest level trims. There are no lower LX or L PacHys. So, you'd have to eliminate those trims from comparison, too.

Finally, I wonder how production-limited the PacHy might be, i.e., maybe FCA can only build so many of them due to the complexity versus the gasser. IOW, what's the likelihood that 7k PacHys were sold because that's the number they set-up to build, and no more.

Then, as mentioned, FCA hasn't really pushed the PacHy, and I would imagine there's a good reason for it, and that's simply profit. It's been speculated that FCA actually loses money on each PacHy (the same had been said of the Volt when it first came out). The same situation existed with the Fiat 500e, a vehicle which Marchionne himself said was only built and sold for CARB compliance to be able to sell ICE vehicles in California, and the profit from those sales would make up the loss on the EVs.

With those fleet, lower trim, and production adjustments, the ratio might not be quite as dramatic as it first seems. Taken as a whole, sales of the PacHy might be exactly where FCA wants them to be.
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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by triggerhappy007 View Post
Last year in the US, Chrysler sold about 7,000 hybrids and 111,000 gas models. The reason why they don't sell well is they don't know how to sell it. Texas did have a $2500 state rebate that expired in March. Plus up to $7500 tax credit so the hybrid could cost less than the gas version. It costs me about $1 to drive 30 miles of electric range vs $2.50 for gas.
No, the reason it does not sell well is that Chrysler does not want to sell more. It is a loss project that is for design and viability research, plus the p.r. advantage of having the first hybrid minivan. Your "tax credit" is actually money forcibly taken out of my pocket and put in yours. It is pot holes not repaired, and rusty bridges not being replaced. When the government gets out of funding car purchases and lets the free market determine what people buy, then I'll be all for electric and hybrid vehicles.
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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Waldo View Post
No, the reason it does not sell well is that Chrysler does not want to sell more. It is a loss project that is for design and viability research, plus the p.r. advantage of having the first hybrid minivan. Your "tax credit" is actually money forcibly taken out of my pocket and put in yours. It is pot holes not repaired, and rusty bridges not being replaced. When the government gets out of funding car purchases and lets the free market determine what people buy, then I'll be all for electric and hybrid vehicles.
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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 12:31 AM
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Your "tax credit" is actually money forcibly taken out of my pocket and put in yours.
In that case, show us your tax returns where that money is taken from you to give me.


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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by triggerhappy007 View Post
Last year in the US, Chrysler sold about 7,000 hybrids and 111,000 gas models. The reason why they don't sell well is they don't know how to sell it. Texas did have a $2500 state rebate that expired in March. Plus up to $7500 tax credit so the hybrid could cost less than the gas version. It costs me about $1 to drive 30 miles of electric range vs $2.50 for gas.
And for city driving the cost difference may even be more than you are stating. It costs me about $1 in fuel cost to drive 30 miles in my PacHy (electric only). But if I drove a Gas Pacifica it would get about 19 mpg (city driving) and at $2.70 a gallon for gas that translates to about $4.25. Another thing to keep in mind is that, in my opinion, itís easier to reach the EPA estimated mpg in a hybrid than it is in a gas vehicle. Realistically your mpg in a gas Pacifica will probably be closer to 15 mpg / city. That would translate to a fuel cost of around $5.40.

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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 02:20 AM
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In that case, show us your tax returns where that money is taken from you to give me.
Yes, I think it is over-simplifying the situation to say that the government takes money from one personís pocket and puts it into anotherís pocket. And while it is unjust in the opinion of many to use taxpayer money to offer rebates to people who buy electric or hybrid vehicles, there are many, many more injustices that should be focused on before this one.

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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 12:08 PM
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Yes, I think it is over-simplifying the situation to say that the government takes money from one personís pocket and puts it into anotherís pocket. And while it is unjust in the opinion of many to use taxpayer money to offer rebates to people who buy electric or hybrid vehicles, there are many, many more injustices that should be focused on before this one.
So the answer (i.e. retort) is to prioritize injustices so that one injustice gets ignored while another more worthy injustice receives attention? Anyway, I never called it an injustice. It has been legislated, so it's legal.

What I am saying it's morally wrong. And it's not an oversimplification. I pay federal taxes, and part of that pot of collected taxes goes to pay people who decide to purchase a product that the government has decided that I have help them pay for. To add insult, it is a totally unnecessary product to the well-being of that purchaser. It's not a wheel chair, or food, or doctors' care.
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