January's cost per mile and mpg/mpge/total mpg - 2017+ Chrysler Pacifica Minivan Forums
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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-31-2019, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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January's cost per mile and mpg/mpge/total mpg

Good numbers for extreme cold weather operation.

1 gallon gasoline equals 33.7 kW
Average gas price $2.23/gallon
Electricity cost $0.155/kW

Miles: 407

Gas miles: 176
Gallons: 17.298
Gas mpg: 10.17 (reflects using remote start, leaving it run while in Subway, etc.)

e miles: 231
kW: 219
equivalent e gallons: 6.5
e mpg: 35.5

Total mpg: 17.1

Avg cost per mile: $0.18

As stated in another post, I have a tach that plugs into the OBD II port, and have observed the following about the engine:

When started cold it runs a 1400 rpm for several minutes, then idles down to 1100 rpm. It never goes below that while running, so remote start, sitting a traffic lights, oil refresh, etc., uses more gas than a "normal" car. However, that 1100 rpm is also turning the small motor (when stationary) so both batteries are being charged.

The highest rpm I've observed is hitting the bottom of the big US 131 grade south of town while in electric mode. The engine fires up when power from the battery is 60kW, and goes to 2400 rpm and stays there until the crest.

Winter's a bitch. My old Traverse would get maybe 10mpg under these conditions, with a per mile cost of $0.22, not a lot higher than the pachy. However, the pachy's heavier, got more room inside, is more comfortable, and has a lot of stuff the Chevy didn't, so I'm happy.

Can't wait for warmer weather and a long trip. (To VA and NJ from Cadillac, MI in March, if everything works out.)

Last edited by 1964Plymouth; 02-01-2019 at 07:20 AM.
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-01-2019, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 1964Plymouth View Post
Good numbers for extreme cold weather operation.

1 gallon gasoline equals 33.7 kW
Average gas price $2.23/gallon
Electricity cost $15.5/kW

Miles: 407

Gas miles: 176
Gallons: 17.298
Gas mpg: 10.17 (reflects using remote start, leaving it run while in Subway, etc.)

e miles: 231
kW: 219
equivalent e gallons: 6.5
e mpg: 35.5

Total mpg: 17.1

Avg cost per mile: $0.18

As stated in another post, I have a tach that plugs into the OBD II port, and have observed the following about the engine:

When started cold it runs a 1400 rpm for several minutes, then idles down to 1100 rpm. It never goes below that while running, so remote start, sitting a traffic lights, oil refresh, etc., uses more gas than a "normal" car. However, that 1100 rpm is also turning the small motor (when stationary) so both batteries are being charged.

The highest rpm I've observed is hitting the bottom of the big US 131 grade south of town while in electric mode. The engine fires up when power from the battery is 60kW, and goes to 2400 rpm and stays there until the crest.

Winter's a bitch. My old Traverse would get maybe 10mpg under these conditions, with a per mile cost of $0.22, not a lot higher than the pachy. However, the pachy's heavier, got more room inside, is more comfortable, and has a lot of stuff the Chevy didn't, so I'm happy.

Can't wait for warmer weather and a long trip. (To VA and NJ from Cadillac, MI in March, if everything works out.)
Just a minor thing. I think when you say kW you really mean to say kWh. A kilowatt is just an instantaneous measure of power and cannot be compared to the amount of energy in a gallon of gas. A kilowatt-hour is one kilowatt of energy maintained for an hour. Also, your electricity doesn’t cost $15.5 per kilowatt-hour, maybe 15.5 cents...
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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-01-2019, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
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Roger all that. I moved the decimal point on the cost.
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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-02-2019, 06:06 PM
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Yeah... with the temperatures you had to deal with for the last couple days, I suspect mpg is the least of you worries

one question... I'm not following how 1 gallon gasoline equals 33.7 kW. I'm thinking it's more like 13 kWh per gallon.
Based on 219 kWh @ $0.155 per... that's $33.95, or the same cost as 15.2 gallons based on your local prices.

Was the kWh what you put in the car charging, or does that include energy the car generated while driving?

Also looking forward to warmer weather.

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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-02-2019, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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The 33.7 kW per gallon is the EPA estimate. Don't know how they arrived at it.

The kWh figure is from a little meter I bought that plugs into the wall, then the charge cord plugs into it.

Really like the fast warmup. In 5 minutes or less, it's comfortable. All my previous vehicles would take 15 minutes or more.
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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-02-2019, 09:44 PM
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Yeah, I'm also using the remote start a lot in the cold weather... so it's using more fuel than typical.

And this last week I've left the heat on. Just too cold to drive with the heat off... just to save $1.50.

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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 06:52 AM Thread Starter
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I'm way too old for driving around with the heat off. Even if I wasn't, my wife would kick my ass over it.
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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 1964Plymouth View Post
The 33.7 kW per gallon is the EPA estimate. Don't know how they arrived at it.

The kWh figure is from a little meter I bought that plugs into the wall, then the charge cord plugs into it.

Really like the fast warmup. In 5 minutes or less, it's comfortable. All my previous vehicles would take 15 minutes or more.
I have an idea. The 33.7kW figure (Wikipedia says 35.3) is the raw energy content of a gallon of petrol. But remember that spark ignition engines are perhaps 25% efficient at turning that potential energy into mechanical work. So you’re getting perhaps 7kW of driving down the road energy out of that gallon. The rest is wasted as heat. (midwesterners feel free to disagree that generating heat is a waste...!) So gasoline looks quite cost effective in terms of how much energy you can purchase with a dollar, but it’s about the lifecycle efficiency. We’re still mostly heating homes by burning hydrocarbons because furnaces are 85%-95% efficient, so that is more cost effective than electricity at $0.15 per kilowatt hour. But an electric vehicle drivetrain that is perhaps 80% efficient from the wall socket to energy down the road is less expensive than petrol even though the raw cost of a kilowatt of petrol is lower than a kilowatt of electricity.
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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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My experience with brushless electric motors using rare earth magnets in radio control model airplanes indicates the efficiency is perhaps 95%. They are truly amazing. Also incredibly reliable. Two moving parts- a bearing on each end of the shaft. The commutation, timing, etc. is all done with cascaded MOSFETs.
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-03-2019, 07:24 PM
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I have an idea. The 33.7kW figure (Wikipedia says 35.3) is the raw energy content of a gallon of petrol. But remember that spark ignition engines are perhaps 25% efficient at turning that potential energy into mechanical work.
Just be sure that you remember that the efficiency for electricity generation from fossil fuels is less than 40% for coal plants and 50-60% (LHV) for combined cycle natural gas plants. So that 33.7 kWh GGE is really as much as 90 kWh of primary energy.

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