Better than 33 miles on a charge - Page 6 - 2017+ Chrysler Pacifica Minivan Forums
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post #51 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 05:34 PM
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Here’s another area where the PacHy was designed to “feel like” a gas-only car: if you stop at a light on level ground and your foot is off the accelerator, simply lifting your foot off the brake causes the vehicle to creep forward very slowly. The only reasonable explanation for this on an electric vehicle is so that it will feel like a gas engine where the engine runs at idle while stopped and there is a very slight amount of power flowing through the torque converter and transmission to the wheels. Other than that, I can see no reason that an electric vehicle would apply power to the wheels when you’re not pressing on the accelerator.
This was intentionally done on Tesla's as a software update. People were complaining the car didn't creep like a gas model so they pushed this in an update.
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2019 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid Limited
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Van's Nickname is Petunia
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post #52 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 01:55 AM Thread Starter
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Simplicity. A hybrid drive/ transmission has maybe 10 major parts. Also electric motors don't drag the drivetrain nearly as much as the ICE, uncoupling them would save very little. You're not damaging anything by coasting in N, but the savings are minimal.
I just wanted to comment on your statement about not damaging anything by coasting in N. I watched the transmission ‘deep-dive’ teardown/rebuild video that someone posted in one of the forums here. It’s very interesting and seems to concur with what you said. There are two oil pumps in the transmission that pump the fluid. The primary pump is mechanical and appears to be driven directly from the output shaft. So regardless of whether the engine is running or either of the electric drive motors are running, as long as the car is moving and the tires are turning the transmission fluid is being pumped. This is a different scenario than the standard automatic transmissions on most ICE cars where the pump is more or less driven by the input shaft and therefore only pumps fluid while the engine is running (according to my limited understanding).

The secondary pump in the PacHy transmission is an electric pump that apparently can be turned on when needed perhaps if a temperature sensor shows the fluid getting too hot or perhaps when the wheels are only turning very slowly. So I am convinced now that any warning not to allow the van to coast in neutral for long periods for fear of a lack of lubrication is without merit. The mechanical pump driven by the output shaft will pump fluid whenever the wheels are turning even if the vehicle is shut off. This would seem to indicate that the van could be safely towed with any combination of wheels contacting the road.

My only hesitation about doing that would be understanding how the electrically actuated parking pawl works. If the pawl is disengaged when you position the shifter to ‘N’ will it remain disengaged even if the battery becomes discharged? In other words, is battery power required to keep the parking pawl disengaged?
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post #53 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 10:05 PM
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Both HV and 12V batteries can't become completely discharged when the ignition is on. The HV battery will keep the 12V circuitry energized, and the ICE will charge the HV battery.


The weather turned warm, and my EV mileage increased.
Yesterday 38.1m, 99.9 indicated MPGe, 14% remaining battery. The full charge was 11kwh. Calclated 117MPGe

Today I drove 41 m, 93 indicated MPGe, 6% remaining battery. the full charge was 11.9kwh. Calculated 116MPGe.
I need to see how much the full 0-100% charge will be in the warmer weather. In theory, the battery capacity should go up.

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post #54 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Both HV and 12V batteries can't become completely discharged when the ignition is on. The HV battery will keep the 12V circuitry energized, and the ICE will charge the HV battery.
So the trick may be to leave the ignition on if the van will be towed with wheels on the ground. There is one other problem that I can see with towing. If you were to tow this van on the front wheels with the rear wheels lifted off the ground then the mechanical pump would probably not be pumping correctly since it would be spinning in reverse. The question du jour is whether the computer is smart enough to turn on the electric pump if this would happen and whether it would be effective. If the electric pump is pumping but the mechanical pump is spinning in reverse will it do any good? If both pumps are feeding the same thing and there are no one-way valves it could be possible that none of the lubricant flows out of the pump output manifold. The pumps could just end up circulating the fluid within the manifold area. Inquiring minds want to know!

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post #55 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 10:42 PM
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Inquiring minds want to know!
After your brilliant demonstration involving bare wires and a live 120V circuit, towing the van backwards is a logical next step

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post #56 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 04:23 PM
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Both HV and 12V batteries can't become completely discharged when the ignition is on. The HV battery will keep the 12V circuitry energized, and the ICE will charge the HV battery.


The weather turned warm, and my EV mileage increased.
Yesterday 38.1m, 99.9 indicated MPGe, 14% remaining battery. The full charge was 11kwh. Calclated 117MPGe

Today I drove 41 m, 93 indicated MPGe, 6% remaining battery. the full charge was 11.9kwh. Calculated 116MPGe.
I need to see how much the full 0-100% charge will be in the warmer weather. In theory, the battery capacity should go up.
See, and you thought my 43 miles was crazy
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post #57 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 12:19 AM
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See, and you thought my 43 miles was crazy
A warmer weather helps a lot.

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post #58 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Both HV and 12V batteries can't become completely discharged when the ignition is on. The HV battery will keep the 12V circuitry energized, and the ICE will charge the HV battery.


The weather turned warm, and my EV mileage increased.
Yesterday 38.1m, 99.9 indicated MPGe, 14% remaining battery. The full charge was 11kwh. Calclated 117MPGe

Today I drove 41 m, 93 indicated MPGe, 6% remaining battery. the full charge was 11.9kwh. Calculated 116MPGe.
I need to see how much the full 0-100% charge will be in the warmer weather. In theory, the battery capacity should go up.
The MPG indication on the trip odometer screen is very confusing. I made a mostly highway 799 mile round trip over the weekend. Started out with a full charge on the HV battery and a full tank of gas. Since it was cold outside when we left, we needed to use the heater and defroster to keep warm and prevent condensation on the inside of the windows. So the HV battery drained to zero after about the first 30 miles. Then the odometer started racking up miles attributing them to the gas engine. As you can see below the tripped racked up 722 miles for gas and mysteriously added almost 50 miles to the 30 miles driven at the outset from the HV battery. (This was due to the van counting some miles as electric only simply because the van was coasting and the gas engine wasn’t running.)

According to the gas pump readings we used a total of 27.38 gallons for the trip. So, at some point, the calculated MPG does not take into account the miles driven on electric even though at the start of the trip while we were driving on “electric only” the MPG was being affected. A more correct way to calculate this would have been to count the fully charged HV battery as approximately .38 gallons of gas (since an MPGe is considered to be 33.7 kWh and we could say the battery was charged with about 13 kWh). Then we add the 27.38 gallons of real gas used and take the total number of miles driven (799) and divide it by the number of gallons of gas used (although .38 of those gallons are virtual gallons). The result is 28.78 MPG which is almost 10% better than what the car indicates.

In my opinion, Chrysler is just shooting themselves in the foot here. They are advertising a vehicle that can average 31 MPG but the way they calculate the MPG makes it look worse than what it really is. So you’re bound to have disgruntled owners complaining that the van doesn’t get anywhere near the advertised mileage. The reality is not quite as bad as what’s indicated. And, to be fair, we were driving with the climate control turned on, five passengers, a load of luggage, about 40% of the trip was in rain, and the headwind on the return trip was considerably greater than the tailwind going out.
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post #59 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 06:56 PM
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I wrote about it a while ago. MPG and MPGe are apples and oranges. Averaging them out results in a meaningless number. To measure the gas fuel economy, reset the trip meter after the battery reaches 0% and it will give you accurate results (based on my limited testing). Don't pay attention on "gas" vs "electric" miles, MPG is calculated from the total miles.
BTW, do you know that the thin cyan line under the speedometer changes to blue when the ICE is on? Watch it and you'll see that the ICE is off quite often even when the battery is depleted.

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post #60 of 64 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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BTW, do you know that the thin cyan line under the speedometer changes to blue when the ICE is on? Watch it and you'll see that the ICE is off quite often even when the battery is depleted.
I don’t think I had consciously noticed that. I’ll have to make it a point to check it next time...
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