Level 1 charging or level 2? - Page 2 - 2017+ Chrysler Pacifica Minivan Forums
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 02:37 PM
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Unless you're using a full battery and using level 2 to recharge quick for more use in the same day relatively regularly, or can't get it to sit long enough for an adequate charge, or are trying to fit your full charge into a time of use window (that one's a stretch if that's the only reason) the cost / benefit ratio is hard to justify for the level 2 charger + install.

That is... unless you just want it.

Based on what you're saying I'd recommend sticking with the level 1 and try it out for a while. You can always up it to a level 2 if you feel you'd benefit from it.
In many cases, I think it's mostly a convenience thing. You've got your level 2 mounted on a garage wall with its plug and cord all nicely reeled, making it easy to plug-in and remove, rather than having to take the level 1 out of its storage compartment and case and put it back after usage. With the level 2, you get to leave the level 1 stowed and kept in the vehicle, just in case the opportunity ever arises to use it somewhere else.

To many, that convenience is worth the expense. But, as pointed out, to others, the slower, overnight charging of the level 1 is perfectly adequate.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-07-2019, 12:58 AM
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I'm in Illinois...Doctors visits that exceed 60 miles round trip ...around town at less than 20 miles

Look for public charging stations near your Dr. office, or places where you shop, eat, go to the movies, etc. You may find some level 2 chargers on your outings. You can restore around 10-15 miles of battery range per each hour of charge time. Depending on the fees they charge, though, some of the charging station higher rates for a full charge are more costly than a gallon of gas for the equivalent range.



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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 08:52 PM
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Something else to consider is the impact higher charging rates will have on a battery's longevity. Evidently, it's common knowledge that increased rates of charging, while more rapidly bringing a battery up to 100% charge, will also decrease a battery's life. It likely won't be significant over a relatively short period of time like, say, the term of a lease. But it might on a longer scale.

A case in point will be the just released Tesla V3 charger, which has been dubbed the "1000 miles per hour" charger. More accurately, they supposedly supply the latest Tesla Model 3/Y vehicles with a charging rate of 75 miles every 5 minutes (making more like '900' miles in an hour, but who's counting). However, jamming that much electricity into those batteries that quickly will surely have an impact on how long the batteries last before they start degrading.

Other interesting aspects of the Tesla V3 charger is how it will 'condition' a Tesla's battery while the vehicle is on the road as it approaches the charge station to optimize charging when it does arrive. Likewise, the cable for the charger plug is very thick, due to the need for coolant to surround the cable to keep it cool as it charges.

Technical aspects of high-power, high-speed Tesla chargers aside, unless someone truly needs (as opposed to wants) Level 2 charging for their PacHy (or any EV, for that matter), the supplied Level 1 charger, although it will take 12-14 hours to get a fully depleted battery back to 100%, will not only be enough for most people's needs, but will also better maintain the battery's health over time, as well.
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Last edited by rudiger; 03-17-2019 at 02:41 PM.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 03:56 AM
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the fact that Tesla can push 250 kw into 75 kwh battery ( 3C rate ) and Porsche can push 450 kw into a 90 kwh battery ( 5C rate ) tells me that 6.6 kw into a 16 kwh battery ( 0.5C rate ) is probably fairly safe considering PacHy has liquid cooled battery unlike Nissan Leaf for example. plus there is a 10 year warranty on the battery. if it was that damaging to the battery they would not have included the option IMO since they are on the hook to replace it for 10 years !
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 12:00 PM
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Granted its only for a few seconds at a time, but the PacHy battery accepts up to 80kW with regen on when stopping from highway speeds. My eGolf with a 2.5x larger battery will only take 40kW - but its not liquid-cooled.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 06:00 PM
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Granted its only for a few seconds at a time, but the PacHy battery accepts up to 80kW with regen on when stopping from highway speeds. My eGolf with a 2.5x larger battery will only take 40kW - but its not liquid-cooled.
Interesting fact. Where did you get that info?

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 11:20 AM
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On the "hybrid" app on the touchscreen display. It shows how much power is coming out of or going into the battery. If you are decelerating from freeway speeds, throw it into Low and and as you apply the brakes you will see it go up in the 50s to high 70s.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 04:32 PM
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Something else to consider is the impact higher charging rates will have on a battery's longevity. Evidently, it's common knowledge that increased rates of charging, while more rapidly bringing a battery up to 100% charge, will also decrease a battery's life. It likely won't be significant over a relatively short period of time like, say, the term of a lease. But it might on a longer scale.

A case in point will be the just released Tesla V3 charger, which has been dubbed the "1000 miles per hour" charger. More accurately, they supposedly supply the latest Tesla Model 3/Y vehicles with a charging rate of 75 miles every 5 minutes (making more like '900' miles in an hour, but who's counting). However, jamming that much electricity into those batteries that quickly will surely have an impact on how long the batteries last before they start degrading.

Other interesting aspects of the Tesla V3 charger is how it will 'condition' a Tesla's battery while the vehicle is on the road as it approaches the charge station to optimize charging when it does arrive. Likewise, the cable for the charger plug is very thick, due to the need for coolant to surround the cable to keep it cool as it charges.

Technical aspects of high-power, high-speed Tesla chargers aside, unless someone truly needs (as opposed to wants) Level 2 charging for their PacHy (or any EV, for that matter), the supplied Level 1 charger, although it will take 12-14 hours to get a fully depleted battery back to 100%, will not only be enough for most people's needs, but will also better maintain the battery's health over time, as well.
Interesting... we've got a 2012 Model S and we installed a 100a circuit with a 1st gen Tesla charger in our garage shortly after getting it. So we've charged it nightly (about 2 hours for ~200 miles) unless we're out of town, and for the past 6 months my husband has been using a Supercharger twice a week while he's driving to client sites. After 6 years, he hasn't noticed any change in his range or any issues with the battery.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 09:05 PM
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Interesting... we've got a 2012 Model S and we installed a 100a circuit with a 1st gen Tesla charger in our garage shortly after getting it. So we've charged it nightly (about 2 hours for ~200 miles) unless we're out of town, and for the past 6 months my husband has been using a Supercharger twice a week while he's driving to client sites. After 6 years, he hasn't noticed any change in his range or any issues with the battery.
Perhaps Tesla has figured out a way to solve the high-power, fast-charging, battery degradation issue. They're the current unquestioned leader in EV technology. Or maybe you're just lucky.

As evidence that the problem is real, consider the first production hybrids, the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight. They both got great mpg numbers, but the latter was significantly better. Unfortunately, the way Honda did it was at the expense of battery longevity. Early Insight battery replacement is a routine occurrence.

The Prius, OTOH, gets much longer battery life. Unless damaged or abused, they last 10 years (or more) and hundreds of thousand miles.

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 06:50 PM
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I live in northern Michigan, and I'm justifying the purchase and installation of a level II, 17kWh charger this way:

1. Our trips are either 10 miles or less, or long highway drives. No gripes about long trips- we've been averaging 30 mpg and that was in the winter in mountains.
2. Cabin heating requirements from dead cold cause the engine to start and run for two periods of 3 - 5 minutes during a short trip. This will go on for 5 to 7 days, and then the system goes into oil refresh. The engine then runs all the time for 3-4 days.
3. Hybrid operation at local speeds is inefficient because whenever the engine runs, it runs at a minimum of 1100 rpm. This means that a lot of times, the power it creates is going to waste. This is particularly bad when in oil refresh mode as the engine won't turn off even at a stop or going down hill with regen braking. It's just slurping gas. My records back this up: the vehicle got between 8 and 10 mpg when running on gas during the winter.

My conclusion is that anything that will help keep the engine from running on local trips is worth the effort, and will pay off in the long run.

Someone pointed out last year that when the vehicle is plugged in, and you start it without stepping on the brake, the cabin heat comes on, the engine doesn't start, and the charger starts powering the cabin heat even if the battery is topped up. Trouble with the factory charger is that it does not have sufficient capacity to run the cabin heat by itself, as it only puts out 1.8kWh and the cabin heater grid (located in the battery coolant loop) needs 7kWh to go full blast. (That information was very hard to come by- it was buried in a road test article and I had to google it several times to find it.)

I'm betting that a 15-20 minute warmup time on the charger will greatly reduce the engine operation time for two reasons: 1. It'll get the cabin up to 70 degrees without the engine's help and 2. Because the electric heating grid is in the battery coolant loop, it will get that loop up to 70 degrees or more, which will warm the battery and increase its efficiency during the cold weather.

I just read yesterday that Kia is doing something similar - increasing winter time range by cross connecting the various coolant loops in the car with the battery loop.

Makes sense to me. I might even try higher temperatures in the morning to see how it works out.

I'm getting the Morec 32 Amp charger from Amazon, for $350. It will cost between $150-200 to get the 240V outlet in the garage.
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