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Stop-Start Battery went bad

68K views 154 replies 28 participants last post by  Jeremy M. 
#1 ·
The battery stays on status charging and while in that status that feature is not available. My Pacifica is already a year old so my question is, is it cheaper to get a new one at the dealer or Pepboys or any other auto store?
 
#2 ·
I have something simlar too. I fail to understand why charging takes so long. Is this a function of temperature and the system is conservatively managing the battery? Is the battery gradually failing to take a charge. Sometimes the charging note stays up long after the engine is warmed up and other times Start/Stop works immediately after warmup. I do not get it.
 
#5 ·
My 2018 operates in a similarly odd fashion. I recently left it parked for 21ish days while traveling. Started up no problem when I returned home, but as one would expect ESS was charging. I live in a small town, the longest it takes to drive anywhere is about 10 minutes. Running around town for a week after returning, the ESS never came back. A 90 minute drive to Austin and back revived it - but only for a day or two. Then back to charging. Here’s where it gets weird. Drove 4 hours to Houston - still charging. Drove 4 hours back - still charging. Home for an hour, go out to dinner - it works!

Not my biggest concern. Given where I live, one is rarely stopped for more than 10 or 20 seconds, so the fuel savings are negligible. I think there is some type of bug in the software or the data from the battery monitor is faulty.

I like to troll the guys over in the Honda Odyssey forum. Theirs is just as flaky, it eventually never shuts down unless you go through a weird reset procedure. I’m guessing most people don’t notice or don’t care.
 
#3 ·
Isn't the battery covered under the 36 mo /36,000 mile factory warranty (or have you exceeded the miles)?
The OEM 2 year 12V battery in my van was recently replaced free of charge by the dealer under the 36 mo /36,000 mile warranty. I don't have stop/start.
Free at the dealer is cheaper.:smile2:
 
#4 ·
it's one year old a 13000 miles, i was under the impression that batteries are covered for one year.
 
#10 ·
Because it stays in "charging" for ever. To me it's a sign that the battery is not retaining charge any more.
 
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#14 ·
Sounds good, I'm curious to know how this turns out.

Mine has been doing similar, when I brought it to the dealer I was told that is likely because of the cold weather. I haven't seen my van in almost 2 weeks, hopefully they will fix the alternator today. I'm also having them take another look at the ESS system, but I'm wondering if a failing alternator is what caused this. I noticed it stuck on battery charging about two weeks before the alternator abruptly failed at -17°F.
 
#16 ·
I live in South Florida so ESS should work all time. There our lowest temp here is 40 F and it happens 2 or 3 teams a year to go back to +75F.
 
#15 ·
I live in MN, with a 2018 gasser.
I have been in FL the last 3 weeks.
I can tell you that in FL, the ESS works works within 3 blocks after an overnight park, works at almost every stop light, most of the time.
Back in MN, it would take a 20 minute drive before ESS would activate. Especially at sub 0 F temps. Is there something wrong with my van? I doubt it. Ambient air temp seems to have a large affect on ESS operation.
 
#17 ·
Agree. The only bad thing is that during the week I only drive 8 miles to work and back. But during almost a whole year it was working fine.
 
#25 ·
Hi @citanic,

I'm sorry to hear that you are having a tough time with the battery in your Pacifica. Please send us a private message so that we can look into this further.

Darlene
Chrysler Social Care Specialist
 
#20 · (Edited)
After a night of being at rest, I measure the voltage in the small battery and I got 12.46v. But this is without a load. I have seem batteries measuring without load 12v or more and as soon as you connect any load they die.

The voltage of the big battery with the car running is 14.1v.

One thing that the technician was telling me was that if the big battery was going bad the stop-start feature may not trigger. Go figure. I do not think that the guy knew too well the system. Other things that he told me was that they have replaced a lot of the small batteries up to the point that they went on back order at one point. He also mentioned that they tried an aftermarket battery but he did not like it because it was not fitting very well in the little compartment or place that holds the small battery.

So here I'm @ChryslerCares, to replace the batteries the instrument needs to return the code they will submit later to Chrysler to get paid for the battery replacement under warranty. And that's not happening. I have a second appointment for this saturday where they will test again both batteries. If nothing comes out wrong then they said that next step is for them to open a ticket with Mopar to get what to do next.
 
#21 · (Edited)
"The typical charging voltage is between 2.15 volts per cell (12.9 volts for a 12V 6 cell battery) and 2.35 volts per cell (14.1 volts for a 12V 6 cell battery). These voltages are appropriate to apply to a fully charged battery without overcharging or damage."

"All Lead acid batteries (Gel, AGM, Flooded, Drycell, etc) are made up of a series of 2.2 volt cells that are bridged together in series to reach their final desired voltage. For instance, a 6 volt battery will have 3 cells (3 x2.2= 6.6 volts), a 12 volt battery will have 6 cells (6 x2.2=13.2 volts) and so on.That 2.2 volts is the fully charged, straight off the charger number. The actual resting voltage, or the voltage a battery will settle at 12-24 hours after being removed from the charger, is closer to 2.1 volts per cell, or about 6.4 volts for a 6v battery, and 12.7 volts for a 12v battery. These numbers assume 100% healthy cells, and may vary a bit lower for older batteries."

I was getting 12.46 v after more 10 hours without charging or at rest. I do not know if that difference from 12.7 v means the battery is bad. :(

Answering my own question: "It's a good place to start, though. This is called the “open cell” or “resting” voltage of the battery. Resting fully charged 12 volt batteries are around 12.8-12.9 volts, and flat dead ones are at 12.0 volts, so 12.4 volts on a resting battery means it's about 50% charged." So my small battery has just 50% of charge!
 
#24 · (Edited)
It really piss me off that the stop-start feature has been working for almost a year and now it's not. I really hate to have features in my NO-CHEAP car that do not work and that I paid for them.
 
#28 ·
BTW, I found this information:

http://media.fcanorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?&id=15722

ESS works this way:
Engine controls constantly monitor vehicle speed
When the vehicle brakes to a stop, fuel flow is cut and engine turns off – events that save gas and reduce emissions
Beefier batteries maintain other vehicle systems so in-cabin comfort is unaffected
When the brake pedal is released, the engine automatically restarts and the nine-speed automatic transmission, the segment-exclusive nine-speed automatic transmission is engaged – all within 0.3 seconds
So, yes, the ESS battery maintains the computer + other systems so in-cabin comfort is unaffected. In my mind, all that was supported by the main battery.
 
#35 · (Edited)
l went to the dealer last Saturday and they tested again both batteries. Both failed. After replacing it Stop-start is working again. l only drove back from the dealer, around 10 miles.

l was missing the silence of having the engine off at stop lights!
 
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#36 ·
l went to the dealer last Saturday and they tested again both batteries. Both failed. After replacing it Stop-start is working again. l only drove back from the dealer, around 10 miles.

l was missing the silence of having the engine off at interceptions!
That’s great news, glad to hear they got you taken care of!

Mine hasbeen working since I got my van back yesterday, but there are no remarks on the invoice on what they did. From my trip meter, it looks like they idled the heck out of it for two hours. Which is frustrating, but it would’ve charged the batteries completely.

On my drive away from the dealer I rolled over 36K miles, and I have to admit being a little nervous with this thing out of warranty. There’s a shiny new alternator under there, but wrench marks on the AC line bolts confirm they did remove the compressor to get it there. I still wonder if my failing alternator had anything to do with my ESS issue.
 
#40 ·
I was getting intermittent ess issues, and had received the monthly health report from FCA indicating my battery(ies) might be weak. Although the carcwss starting just fine, even in some pretty cold weather, I brought it to my dealer who said both batteries tested bad and replaced them under warranty. The car just turned 2 with 24k miles; the dealer confirmed 3yr/36k included the batteries. ESS now works, don't know if it was cause and effect. But I've never had a battery replaced at 2 years, and certainly not the pair. Surprising.
 
#41 ·
...so it sounds like the 'health report' and replacement under warranty worked as it should. What are your settings for things like how long the lights stay on after shut off? There are a lot of possible drains on the battery that you might not be aware of.
 
#42 ·
After 2.5 weeks of replacing all batteries Stop and Go stopped working again. I have read many people reporting that if you are driving a lot of short trips that will not get Stop and Go battery charged and that's why the feature is not working. And I think that this is what is happening in my case.

To me this is really annoying. That feature should be working no matter how short is the distance that you are driving. This is what I call BAD DESIGN. PERIOD.

I love my van but NO WAY I would recommend it to any one. PERIOD. Everything about this van is like half cooked:
1- Stop and go does not work well
2- Automatic Cruise control fails to detect the car on front if it's stopped
3- Frontal Collision Warning system sometimes comes from factory unaligned and requires to be aligned properly by the dealer
4- PAINT ISSUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5- Plenty of other malfunction reports in this and other places online

The most I love the car the most aggravated I get with all these imperfections. I'll never buy a Chrysler again in my life. I bought it because nobody else was offering a better deal comparing money against features. Now I comprehend that how good are those features if they are half cooked. No wonder they were offered almost at no cost compared with Honda and Toyota. I drove a Toyota Prius for more than 10 years. Every single feature in the two cars I drove JUST WORKED. None failure ever. With Chrysler you have to always think "will it work this time?"

And it's not me alone. The technician confirmed me that he is constantly replacing Stop and Go batteries up to the point that they have been few times in back order.
 
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#45 ·
To me this is really annoying. That feature should be working no matter how short is the distance that you are driving. This is what I call BAD DESIGN. PERIOD.
Sadly, it's a physical thing that has its own requirements that don't care about our whims. There are a lot of electronics on board that draw power, and if you don't charge that battery enough to power them, the ESS isn't going to work. The Prius has a huge battery, the auxiliary battery here is the size of a lawnmower battery- a lot gets asked of it, and your driving doesn't feed it enough. I'd actually congratulate you on needing to use your van so little.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Smart charging is probably the reason for most of the battery problems, to test this disconnect the sensor on the negative rail of the starter battery, charge battery then drive car for a few days, with sensor disconnected the alternator will enter a standard charging regime of between 13.8 and 14.3 volts and should keep battery fully charged, with smart charging in play the EMU tries to keep state of charge (SOC) of the battery at around 75%, near to flat with little energy left for any emergency. If you have a sensor on negative post similar to pic below you have smart charging, disconnecting sensor will also deactivate stop/start, (post link in browser and follow thread below to the end). These systems give minimal on the road fuel gains but are causing many battery problems, Ford will disconnect this system on certain models.

(slkworld.com/slk-r172-general-discussion/523458-eco-start-stop-slk55-switching-off-5.html)
 

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#50 ·
That's the end result of the way Chrysler does business. We end trading in our cars, no recommending ever any friend to buy a Chrysler. I love everything in my van but the poor reliability statistics this car is showing up. If I could get the confirmation from @ChryslerCares that a capacitor AGM battery fixes the issue and will work properly I would buy the battery myself.
 
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#51 ·
I agree with your point, but I'm trading mind for a different reason that I outlined in another thread. Medical problems are making this thing very hard for me to drive, which forces the issue for me. And I'm losing a fortune on the trade-in as a result, much of which I blame on their reputation for reliability.

I was going to post in your other thread, but haven't gotten around to it. The capacitor battery you referenced is nowhere close to the capacity you would need. If I remember right, most batteries the size of our ESS batteries have more than 10 times the capacity of the capacitor battery you referenced. The voltage is also different. My hands are really up for much Internet research right now, so I have to get back to you on that.
 
#55 ·
It's a battery. Sufficient charging is the fix. If I continually short fill my gas tank and continually get stranded, it's not a bad tank design.

Maybe a more expensive battery will last longer on the minimal charging that some people give it, but for the vast majority of drivers, the battery is sufficient because there's nothing wrong with the battery.
 
#62 ·
I remember being frustrated with the system in my van during cold weather, as it did not like to engage much of the time he felt that it should. But one thing is warmed up, it got a lot better, so I just chalked up is a characteristic of the system. As of one week ago I no longer on the van, I can't really make any further comparisons as things warm-up.

My relationship my Pacifica was much of a love-hate relationship; when things are working it was the best van I've ever driven. Two failures that would have left me stranded soured my opinion on the van, and regular occurrences of minor glitches got to be little frustrating over the years around. I look at the ESS system as a source of some of those glitches. If Chrysler can get these bugs ironed out, they will have hit it out of the park with the design. It's a shame it takes them so much work when other manufacturers seem to get things right the first time around.
 
#63 ·
I brought my 2018 Gas Pacifica to the dealer yesterday. They had to charge, or attempt to charge the ESS battery then test it to determine if it was bad. my guess is a load test and it failed. BUT they don't have MOPAR batteries. So the tech said he had to try to get management to approve a different non OEM battery for replacement. It's a bit of a PITA but I do understand.



Now I would like data about how many of these batteries failed, what the actual cause of failure was. Was it poor manufacturing or poor design e.g. too small a capacity battery, or insufficient charger etc. There is also a recall about a bad ground ... could these be related?


PS the bad ground was a cable manufacturer having some insulating material/chemical on the connector.
 
#66 ·
if they replace your battery for a different brand, please post it here. Would be good to track how the other brand battery holds.
 
#64 ·
The bad ground connector might be a very minor bit-player in the near-complete failure of the stop/start system but based upon my experience with the connector recall and my own Pacifica still not operating the stop/start properly after the recall. . . Nah, it won't help to have that connector cleaned up. Still should have it done if your vehicle falls under that recall list (not sure mine did but the dealer did it anyway). Because if the connector does totally fail, you can have some serious issues related to the power steering.

But the only solution to the ESS and stop/start system is to get a couple really talented engineers together and tell them there is no stupid solution except the one you throw away because "they" won't like it upstairs. Then test, test, test, test the recommended fix. Then test again. Did I mention test it before it's fielded?
 
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#77 ·
I went and contacted the author of the above linked article and he was kind enough to answer my email and authorize me to make it public:

Hello Mr. Garcia,

Thank you for contacting me in regards to the threaded conversation.

Your thread is correct, in that lead acid batteries (or any battery) does not have good “charge acceptance”. What happens is, the battery drains during cranking, and then it takes a long time to recharge the battery. Cold temperature, battery age, depth of discharge, charging capabilities, etc. all play into how long that battery has to be charged before it can perform the next start stop. As the battery ages, it quickly loses it’s charge acceptance, meaning fewer and fewer stop/start events can occur in the same distance. On top of that, many features of the vehicle are designed to turn off the ESS capability; turning on heat or AC, turning the steering wheel, if the temperature is below 40F, and other items. Some cars of over 200 things programmed in to prevent the ESS from functioning to avoid a failed start. I have given many speeches about this, and it is fairly well known in the automotive space. I can not say why companies still use batteries for ESS, as it is very clear that ultracapacitors are by far the better choice. For a small difference in price, the ESS system could participate in nearly 100% of stop events, over the life of the vehicle, without degradation to the capacitors.

I have reached out to the EPA to state that customers like you are paying for a stop/start vehicle, which includes a specific fuel efficiency advantage, which is lost in the first 8 months, according to my testing. That means that you are paying for a feature that goes away, and you’re no longer getting the fuel economy you paid for. I suggested that the EPA purchase several cars that are 1 year and 2 years old to perform the fuel efficiency test on them, and force companies to issue recalls when the ESS isn’t functioning. Unfortunately, this has not been done.

I cannot give you a specific capacitor design for your vehicle, as it would need to be sized and have some electronics developed to work in a car, which has other systems designed to function with the battery. But I can tell you that a capacitor would work extremely well, for the life of the vehicle.

Good luck in your search!

Best Regards,



Chad Hall
Co-Founder / Senior Vice President of Marketing
Ioxus, Inc.
I bolded the part I do not like. It seems that is not jut go and buy a high capacitor battery. It seems that some changes in the electronics behind that feature needs to be changed.

To me it's time to take this issue somewhere else besides @ChryslerCares.
 
#80 ·
Hi everyone,
Recently there was a Technical Service Bulletin (18-001-19 REV. C) that appears to address concerns similar to the symptoms that you are having with your vehicles. To ensure this TSB applies, we would like to get you back into the dealer to have a qualified technician review the details of the TSB and specifics of your vehicle. Once reviewed, the technician can then perform the repair procedure that best matches the symptoms and diagnosis of your vehicle. Please send us a private message if you have any questions or concerns.

Thank you,
ChryslerCares
 

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