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Guys face was literally burned by the flames emanating from the battery compartment of his Pachy
Pacifica forums: 'not the battery'

Maybe you should stick to Donuts. We've seen the kind of car you'd build.

Why don't you use those YouTube powers to go look up a few lithium battery fires and then come give us a report on your thoughts? I'll give you a hint: look up an 18650 lithium battery fire. That's a 10 watt hour battery. The PacHy has a 16kwh battery. Now, go look at the pictures. Does it look like 1,600 of those burned? I'll give you another hint: no.

Which is why so many here are saying something else must have happened in this fire... It's pretty simple Homey.

There are plenty of other flammable items in and around the battery compartment. If those batteries had gone up, the OP would not have been posting here.
 

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Time to lock this thread!
 

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Maybe you should stick to Donuts. We've seen the kind of car you'd build.

Why don't you use those YouTube powers to go look up a few lithium battery fires and then come give us a report on your thoughts? I'll give you a hint: look up an 18650 lithium battery fire. That's a 10 watt hour battery. The PacHy has a 16kwh battery. Now, go look at the pictures. Does it look like 1,600 of those burned? I'll give you another hint: no.

Which is why so many here are saying something else must have happened in this fire... It's pretty simple Homey.

There are plenty of other flammable items in and around the battery compartment. If those batteries had gone up, the OP would not have been posting here.
There are two forces at play here..

1) Those who FUD lithium products imply to us owners that we have made bad decisions with our families safety. Lots of emotion and defensiveness going to be involved..

2) People are drawn to fireballs! Anything new that blows up gets the spotlight.

But the spotlight hurts the advancement of vehicles and the acceptance of a better technology -not only for the “green” movement, but for ultimate performance too. We now have electric supercars able to do 0-60mph in 1.8sec, **** even the new EV hummer will hit 0-60mph in 3.0sec flat.

I feel for the people that have been affected by these experiences. Unfortunately saying what the fire is from is not possible; or we’d have nurses able to diagnose patients - even if we think we know.. We simple arent qualified.

There are lots of things that burn, wire harnesses, sound insulation, plastic partition covers/bulkheads/connector jacks. Maybe the BPCM harness melted from the cats and shorted near some plastics and it was the HV battery burning - but from outside. Not the lithium.

Thats what some are suggesting because once lithium goes it doesnt stop. We add water to lithium to cool the surounding materials.. not to put the fire out - water contact with lithium creates heat and Hydrogen off gassing that fuels the burn. Just like raw elemental sodium in water explodes into flames on contact.

Water just lets it finish and not spread hopefully.

I am not concerned about my families safety or anyone elses while I drive my Pacifica Hybrid - no more than I would worry about flying.

Some will never fly. I can’t understand it, but I can respect it.
 

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When I see this , all I see is a big bad load of s_i£, just saying,
best statement ever!

Summary of these threads:
My wife's Pachy brakes malfunctioned and nearly caused an accident
PacificaForums: "your wife doesn't know how to drive"

My car burst into flames and melted my garage
PacificaForums: "mice"

My Pachy shocked me when I touched it
PacificaForums: "your house wiring is wrong"


:rolleyes:
 

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best statement ever!

Summary of these threads:
My wife's Pachy brakes malfunctioned and nearly caused an accident
PacificaForums: "your wife doesn't know how to drive"

My car burst into flames and melted my garage
PacificaForums: "mice"

My Pachy shocked me when I touched it
PacificaForums: "your house wiring is wrong"
There is an undercurrent of that sort of thing, but I don't think it's the overall sentiment. Most of these types of threads are started by people who are new to the community, participate in a brief-but-intense way, then leave. Whatever their intentions are, what they don't/can't do is follow-up in a meaningful way. That leaves people to speculate.

There's room for a sensible middle-ground. Some people don't have that sensible middle-ground as an option--it's got to be one extreme or the other. The sensible, reasonable person comes to two conclusions: 1, we don't know what actually is at the cause of such things, as the OPs rarely follow-up. 2, these aren't wide-spread issues. Those conclusions leave a lot unknown, which is just the reality of things. Some folks handle the unknown better than others.
 

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My car burst into flames and melted my garage
PacificaForums: "mice"
The reality is you don't know what casued any of the ----->4<----- fires. Point to a single factually based article showing that PacHy batteries are prone to bursting into flames. I'll wait.

....

Nothing? I'll take a cause and origin report. A quote from a Fire Marshall?

.....


No? But you're so sure! Surely there is something more than clever smirks behind your certainty.

....

You can laugh and discount things like mice, or any of the other possibilities you like. Use all the funny little Twitter in jokes you want.

Mice do cause car fires.




What? GASP! Mice like to chew on electrical wiring? and even Canadian mice at that! I thought they'd be more polite than that. Is there any electrical wiring in the PacHy? What do you think? BY THE BATTERY?!?!?! Why would they put that there?!?!?!? We should alert the authorities to this grevious mistake.

All the passive aggressive emojis and clever youtube clips in the world won't change things.

By the way, no one ever said that mice were definitely the cuplrit of any of the fires. Just presented as part of a list of possible causes of vehicle fires in general. You were the one that keeps bringing it up.

43151
 

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Mr Simpson's point is that a lot of posters here will always deflect any possible Pachy defect. Mice are a perfect example. Suppose mice caused the three explosions of parked Pachys... so what? That doesn't make it any safer for my family. (BTW: when mice chew on ICE cars, do they explode violently, sending the garage door flying across the street?) To completely dismiss mice as a non-issue is not rational... when a house burns down possibly with people inside, none of the victims care whether a mouse or whatever started it.

I'm not saying Pachys are prone to exploding, catching fire, being chewed on, etc. But the completely dismissive attitude of some posters is really off-putting, especially to folks like OP who are actually going through it.
 

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But the completely dismissive attitude of some posters is really off-putting, especially to folks like OP who are actually going through it.
You're mistaking not running around screaming at the heavens with our hands in the air as dismissive. The argument that those of us asking for rational, rather than emotional, responses are making is that there is not evidence that the PacHy is any more dangerous than any other vehicle. No one said "there is nothing to see here". What we want is to see more.

Some of us don't turn into this guy every time something goes wrong.
43161


That's not dismissive. There is a world of difference between being dismissive and asking for more evidence. Offering other possible explanaitons isn't dismissive, it's investigation and conversation. You are acting like questions and investigations are no longer important. Only accusations matter? The truth is irrelevant? You must work in politics. :) If so, warn me now.

Opinions from people that have dealt with hundreds (thousands) of vehicle fires over the last 17 years isn't dismissive. Some of us have read and reviewed many many many fire reports and cause and origin reports.

You know what is unreasonable? The following:

"OMG! A FIRE! AL PACHYS ARE DEATH MACHINES WAITING TO KILL YOUR CHILDREN!!!!!"

FUD isn't helpful. Ever. Even your post is inflammatory. Sarcastically asking if gas explosions blow the doors off garages... Of course they do. Sometimes, but not always. Come on man.... That's what explosions do. This one didn't explode either. Gas explosions level buildings just the same. It turns out the facts matter and dictate what happens. Shocking, eh?

OP will be fine. His family is fine. Bad things happen, they get fixed, they move on with their lives. No one died. A few singed hairs will probably be one of the easiest "bad things" that OP will ever deal with.

You know who is being dismissive? You. The truth matters. Is it wrong to want to find it?
 

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I think this is the perfect vehicle to
Investigate.. its not a complete burn, they could actually rather easily discover the source.

However, we will never know. If that time comes it will happen silently or through a recall that likely wont share the details.

Dont expect a public service announcement declaring fault
 

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You know what is unreasonable? The following:

"OMG! A FIRE! AL PACHYS ARE DEATH MACHINES WAITING TO KILL YOUR CHILDREN!!!!!"
Ok? Who said this?

Also, I have a Pachy and I put my child in it. EVEN IF the rate of Pachys blowing up is the same as any other van (or even lower!), should I not still be worried?

FUD isn't helpful. Ever. Even your post is inflammatory. Sarcastically asking if gas explosions blow the doors off garages... Of course they do. Sometimes, but not always. Come on man.... That's what explosions do. This one didn't explode either. Gas explosions level buildings just the same. It turns out the facts matter and dictate what happens. Shocking, eh?
The three parked and plugged-in Pachys that caught on fire did violently explode. That is fact, unless you think those posts are complete fabrications. One of them (the one of the three who was parked inside) blew a garage door to the other end of the driveway (apologies, not across the street) and warped the neighbor's house siding across the street, and there are photos of this. I am not being sarcastic and am not making things up as you seem to be saying. Do ICE vehicles really explode like that while parked and without warning? The three explosions (setting this particular case aside for a moment) are beyond FUD at this point.
 

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I hope no one seriously argues that a vehicle fire (hybrid or gas, whatever) isn't a "bad thing" and that if there are things that can be done to prevent prevailing causes, they should be taken. Apparently about 350 people annually are killed in car fires in the US.

For perspective, that's about the total killed in the two 737MAX crashes, worldwide. Imagine if there were harnesses in airplanes that regularly were chewed by rodents and caused a crash, and Boeing said "meh, rodents, not our problem". It would (justifiably) be a total shitstorm. Same applies in my line of work, where the number of people we could kill is minuscule compared to the numbers above. Why should vehicle manufacturers get a free pass? It's a matter of systematically identifying causes of malfunctions, especially those that hurt people, and see if they can be mitigated. If the cost is prohibitive, then it's becomes a cost/benefit discussion and maybe you decide that it's not worth it. But until you know the cause and how expensive it would be to mitigate, you have no idea.

Saying that a fire caused by rodents isn't the manufacturer's problem is like saying that crashes are caused by people so it's not the manufacturer's problem if they die in them. If rodents are a fact of life, they must be considered.

But, at a personal level, before you start worrying about a fire, remember that more than 100x more people die every year from car crashes. If you accept the risk of driving around, pretty much all other risks pale in comparison.
 

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I guess it’s true that some of the comments on this thread (subsequently cleaned) have been a bit snarky. I think I count myself among those that want the posters of these stories to follow up with more details. Perhaps because—mainly for legal considerations that the manufacturers and insurers are making—so little follow up ever gets brought to these threads, those that were—not skeptical but—wanting more information have their comments just sitting out there unaddressed. Having looked at statistics after the first one of these posts came up (once I had joined the forum), I ultimately came to the conclusion that the risk of fire was no greater than other more mundane risks that we take in driving automobiles. I DID order a couple of glass breaker/seatbelt cutter thingies, but I probably should’ve always had one of those in my car. I sympathize with the posters that have taken some flak for their comments, even though I agree that one or two comments may have crossed into the overly interrogative. I tend to agree with @m0ebius604 that there won’t ever be an “a-ha” moment where we all suddenly realize we’ve been driving a death trap, so most of us hoping for clarity are probably never going to get it.
 

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@m0ebius604 that there won’t ever be an “a-ha” moment where we all suddenly realize we’ve been driving a death trap, so most of us hoping for clarity are probably never going to get it.
Thanks, I think @lutorm put it more delicately when he said

“remember that more than 100x more people die every year from car crashes. If you accept the risk of driving around, pretty much all other risks pale in comparison.”

I may have been a little more direct:D

But I drive a 200mph honda.. I accept the ugly truth with all the beauty
 

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Oh, your out of your Hybrid now?
yeah, tomorrow would be my final ride on Pachy. repurchase formalities almost done. and i took this step onlybecause Chrysler themselves said, hybrids might need to be plugged in overnight during cold days and it can happen to anyhybrids out there. not sure if the dealer lied but i take their word. since they are the only one representing Chrysler in person. no more taking risk.
 

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yeah, tomorrow would be my final ride on Pachy. repurchase formalities almost done. and i took this step onlybecause Chrysler themselves said, hybrids might need to be plugged in overnight during cold days and it can happen to anyhybrids out there. not sure if the dealer lied but i take their word. since they are the only one representing Chrysler in person. no more taking risk.
Oh, wow. I’m not sure that’s necessarily true unless maybe you live in Alaska. But to each his own...
 

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Also, I have a Pachy and I put my child in it. EVEN IF the rate of Pachys blowing up is the same as any other van (or even lower!), should I not still be worried?
Sigh. I'll try again.

We have no evidence showing you should be any more worried than any other vehicle. You can own, drive, charge, and park a PacHy with the same level of confidence and security you apply to any other vehicle. If you cower in fear everytime you see a gasoline, diesel, electric, steam powered, flintstone-footed, or horse drawn vehicle, then worry away. Lose all the sleep you want.

The three parked and plugged-in Pachys that caught on fire did violently explode.
Following your link, I only see 1 explosion.

What is the difference between a "violent explosion" and an "explosion"? Also, we don't know what else was in that garage that could have exploded. It may have been the van, it may not have been. Many people keep gasoline, fertilizer, all kinds of compressed gasses, propane, etc in their garages. Some people have gas fittings in their garages. A van fire could have set those things off. When there are questions, you point at that van and yell "J'accuse!" without supporting evidence. Curious? Yes. Damning? No.

That is fact, unless you think those posts are complete fabrications.
Never said that.

...warped the neighbor's house siding across the street, and there are photos of this.
This is what hot fires do to plastic....

I am not being sarcastic..
To be fair, we both have been by this point.

and am not making things up as you seem to be saying.
Never said you were making things up.

Do ICE vehicles really explode like that...
Absolutely they do.

...while parked and without warning?
You don't know there was no warning. Unless you believe an unboserved tree falling makes no sound.... You don't. Right?

The three explosions (setting this particular case aside for a moment) are beyond FUD at this point.
One explosion. 3 fires. In many thousands of vehicles. Individually they are very impactful. As part of general ownership, it's only remarkable in how utterly unremarkable it is. Wavy arm guy does not need to be deployed.

Terms like "violent explosion" = FUD
Constantly bringing up "my children in the van" for theoritical fires that haven't occurred = FUD
"my children aren't safe" = FUD

These appeals to emotion are logical fallacies. Here's a fun read: Appeal to emotion - Wikipedia

Another fun read: Highway Vehicle Fires report.
 
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