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Why anyone would want a hybrid is quite mystifying---significantly heavier, no stow-and-go seats on the second row, extra batteries. Why? The plug-in option here in New England is also a non-starter--if you do the arithmetic, gasoline is cheaper than grid energy.
 

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Why anyone would want a hybrid is quite mystifying---significantly heavier, no stow-and-go seats on the second row, extra batteries. Why? The plug-in option here in New England is also a non-starter--if you do the arithmetic, gasoline is cheaper than grid energy.
Well, for a start the hybrid gets 30mpg instead of 22 even if you don't plug it in.

I'm puzzled, though. Here in Hawaii with our power price of $0.35/kWh and 0.42kWh/mile, you get $0.15/mile. At 30mpg, $3.50/gal, driving on gas comes out to $0.12/mile. So... here it is slightly cheaper to drive on gas if you're paying the normal utility price. But our electricity here is nuts expensive compared to anywhere else in the nation. What do you pay for power?
 

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Why anyone would want a hybrid is quite mystifying---significantly heavier, no stow-and-go seats on the second row, extra batteries. Why? The plug-in option here in New England is also a non-starter--if you do the arithmetic, gasoline is cheaper than grid energy.
So your kid can mabe have a normal life in future...
 

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Lutform,
Thanks for doing the arithmetic, and thanks especially for expressing electric mileage in KWh/mile--MPGe is such a farce (thanks EPA!) Here in CT and MA, depending on specific location, residential energy ranges from $.25 to $.35 per KWh, or or $.11-.15 per mile on plug-in electric, but our gasoline is $2/gal or a tick over $.07 per mile (I see 27 MPG). My driving is about 98% interstates with no stopping, so I would not expect much better hybrid mileage unless the Pentastar motor has been reconfigured to Atkinson cycle for that application.
Although I'm not using the Pacifica as a truck, the ability to instantly create a flat-floor ballroom for bulky things is huge. When I had a 2001 T&C it was necessary to remove both 2nd/3rd row seats AND find a place to store them. I'm almost 20 years older and don't have that kind of strength.
Nice to have a measured correspondence, Lutform. I'm curious, are you a fellow engineer?
Ben
 

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Hey Lutorm--sorry to have misspelled your name--wrong glasses this morning!
 

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Why anyone would want a hybrid is quite mystifying---significantly heavier, no stow-and-go seats on the second row, extra batteries. Why? The plug-in option here in New England is also a non-starter--if you do the arithmetic, gasoline is cheaper than grid energy.
Ben,
I think it comes down to a few things. Such as location, need, wants etc. This is just my experience, I Just came from a 14 T&C with Stow and go, I think I used the S&G about 2x, but I did use the cubby's in the floor on vacations about 10 times. I will miss that for sure. I was pissed to learn after purchase the rear seats are not heated. (my fault for not realizing this ahead of time) So why did we go with the Hybrid for a few reasons, Where I am unless gas is less than about 2.15 a gallon. Electric is cheaper, My round trip commute is about 10-15 miles. So no gas for me. I do more in town driving so if I get the 30 MPG it beats the 22 I averaged in my T&C. My kids are getting older and the rear seats are more comfortable than the stow and go ( granted this gen of stow and go is light years better than the gen 5s) I was able, after the 7500 tax credit get my van for about 2500.00 less than any deal I was able to get on a Limited (ICE) and I shopped and shopped for both. Lastly I'm not a tree hugger by no means but If I can help the environment a little that is just being a good human.
 

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Lutform,
Thanks for doing the arithmetic, and thanks especially for expressing electric mileage in KWh/mile--MPGe is such a farce (thanks EPA!) Here in CT and MA, depending on specific location, residential energy ranges from $.25 to $.35 per KWh, or or $.11-.15 per mile on plug-in electric, but our gasoline is $2/gal or a tick over $.07 per mile (I see 27 MPG). My driving is about 98% interstates with no stopping, so I would not expect much better hybrid mileage unless the Pentastar motor has been reconfigured to Atkinson cycle for that application.
The kWh/mile number is actually on fueleconomy.gov, just under the MPGe rating.

I didn't realize power in MA was that expensive, I lived in Somerville for a few years a while back and I don't remember it being as painful as it is here. But yeah, at that gasoline vs power price, it's hard to argue phev is a win from an economic standpoint. It still is from a CO2 standpoint though, which is important to me. Personally, I would have a really hard time justifying driving such a large vehicle if I wouldn't be able to fill it up from our solar panels.

And yeah, the hybrid ICE runs an Atkinson cycle.

Nice to have a measured correspondence, Lutform. I'm curious, are you a fellow engineer?
Depends on your definition of engineer... ;) I'm an astrophysicist-turned-software engineer (now working in aerospace.)
 

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Well, for a start the hybrid gets 30mpg instead of 22 even if you don't plug it in.

I'm puzzled, though. Here in Hawaii with our power price of $0.35/kWh and 0.42kWh/mile, you get $0.15/mile. At 30mpg, $3.50/gal, driving on gas comes out to $0.12/mile. So... here it is slightly cheaper to drive on gas if you're paying the normal utility price. But our electricity here is nuts expensive compared to anywhere else in the nation. What do you pay for power?
The thing is, electric is better on city stop-and-go traffic. in this traffic situation, gas mileage is 1 digit.
if driving freeway without traffic, gas could be better.
 

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The overall experience is that you’ll get better gas mileage All round . City will def be a no brainer but highway you’ll still beat a ice most definitely. The trade off is that you get best worlds . Here in Ontario when I go out gym , mall, theatre , shopping , rest it’s free to plug in . When I plug in at home pay about .10 kw/h to charge . You just make sure to time your charge , also make sure charge is done just prior to utilization. Last 10 minutes is slowest to charge so you’ll get the whole ideology of electric driving if you do some trail and error experimentation.
 

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Chrysler is running “Family pricing for all” sale, discounts of $2600 - which brings it to same price we had to negotiate a month back with some effort getting multiple quotes, this is in Seattle, WA.
 
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