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Discussion Starter #1
After reading the issues some seem to be having with the smallish, LV 12v battery, and understanding that 'RUN' is powered by the HV traction battery, I'm wondering if using the accessories while stationary is better via 'RUN' than taking a chance on killing the 12v with 'ACC'.

In fact, it seems like 'ACC' should simply be avoided, entirely, if the small 12v can be killed so easily. Even if the HV traction battery was in a depleted state, wouldn't the ICE start up to keep it charged while stationary and running accessories?

IOW, avoiding 'ACC' might be a good way to save the 12v for as long as possible since it's critical to the electronics of the PacHy. I'd hate to have an electronics issue simply because of some light ACC use.
 

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Makes sense to me. I was using ACC quite a bit yesterday trying to figure out all of the features on our 2 day old van.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Makes sense to me. I was using ACC quite a bit yesterday trying to figure out all of the features on our 2 day old van.
Exactly. I was doing the same thing but switched to 'RUN' over concern on the toll it might be taking on that miniscule 12v battery. I mean, that thing looks like something they got out of a motorcycle. And, yeah, the first thing owners are going to do is hit 'ACC' while stationary to figure out all the features and configure to their liking.

In fact, I wouldn't be a bit surprised that this is the root cause of at least some of the 12v failures that have been reported. It just may not take very long to kill it which, in turn, leads to other, more serious electronics issues (including immobilizing the vehicle). My personal experience was sitting in the PacHy for at least 45 minutes at the dealership on 'ACC' while the salesman went over the menu features. Then, of course, I did the same thing, again, when I got home. It wasn't long afterwards that I experienced the black Uconnect screen. It came back the next day (sans preferences) but I can easily see that having been caused by the somewhat extensive, initial 'ACC' use.

If correct, FCA should consider modifiying the push-button start to eliminate 'ACC', altogether, on the PacHy.
 

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If you open the sliding doors or the lift gate without the car being in the run position, would that also use the 12v battery?
 

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If you open the sliding doors or the lift gate without the car being in the run position, would that also use the 12v battery?
Good question. I had a Sienna, and it maintained a 0.5A draw from the battery if the sliding door was left open. Once it stood 2 days in the garage, and it completely killed the battery. The interior lights timed out after a few minutes, so it was something else (safety sensors?) using that power.
I haven't check if PacHy draws something when the doors are open.
 

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There may also be a ghost that eats the 12V battery. About every other time, if the engine is running when I turn the car off, all the dash displays stay lit and won't turn off. This continues past the 5 minute limit. It is necessary to turn the car on, then off again, with no foot on the brake pedal, then it shuts down completely. I went to the owner's section on Chrysler's website and tried to tell them about it, but the morons there just kept saying I should take it to the dealer. No thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There may also be a ghost that eats the 12V battery. About every other time, if the engine is running when I turn the car off, all the dash displays stay lit and won't turn off. This continues past the 5 minute limit. It is necessary to turn the car on, then off again, with no foot on the brake pedal, then it shuts down completely. I went to the owner's section on Chrysler's website and tried to tell them about it, but the morons there just kept saying I should take it to the dealer. No thanks.
I guess the solution to that one is to make sure the car is on battery operation before attempting to turn it off. :|

In that regard, it's just another reason the PacHy should have the ability to manually toggle between ICE and battery operation. This was a major gripe from owners of the first 2011-12 Chevy Volts. GM actually responded and the 2013 Volt (and, I presume, all newer versions) did, indeed, include a ICE/battery toggle in the menu.

Seriously, the reason Volt owners wanted to be able to manually switch between ICE/battery was to 'save' the charged battery for the most optimum times. For example, when it was known that a long, highway journey would be undertaken, one could immediately switch to ICE and save the battery for later, in-town use. Without the toggle, highway operation quickly uses up the battery (zero brake regeneration) and ICE operation would be at its highest efficiency.

I can't for the life of me understand this omission by FCA on the PacHy. I would have thought they would have done extensive research on what early Volt adopters said about their cars' operation, which is virtually identical to the PacHy. If they had, this would have been one of the first concerns that lept out on the initial Volts.

OTOH, maybe they they were afraid owners would save the battery as a reserve and run the gas tank empty or, worse, constantly run the PacHy as a pure BEV devoid of any fuel in the tank, at all, to save weight. The problem with that is I've read that running the gas tank empty is not such a great idea because the fuel pump is located in the tank and relies on the surrounding gas to keep it from overheating. Exposing the running fuel pump with no gas to keep it cool may damage the pump.

And then there's the good old Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode (FORM). I have no idea how FORM would respond if someone tried to drive a PacHy on battery, alone, for an extended period of time with zero gas in the tank. I can sure see a major issue (i.e., immobilization) if FORM attempted to engage with no fuel in the tank.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Good question. I had a Sienna, and it maintained a 0.5A draw from the battery if the sliding door was left open. Once it stood 2 days in the garage, and it completely killed the battery. The interior lights timed out after a few minutes, so it was something else (safety sensors?) using that power.
I haven't check if PacHy draws something when the doors are open.
Something else to consider is how often are the power sliding doors/liftgate used with the vehicle in the 'RUN' position. I can't imagine it being very much. I mean, most times the doors or liftgate are going to be used is prior to getting into the vehicle, or right after the it's been stopped and turned off. Surely, FCA engineers took this into consideration when determining the size of the LV 12v battery. Maybe extensive door/liftgate usage is yet another reason so many PacHy 12v batteries seem to be dying off early.
 

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Good question. I had a Sienna, and it maintained a 0.5A draw from the battery if the sliding door was left open. Once it stood 2 days in the garage, and it completely killed the battery. The interior lights timed out after a few minutes, so it was something else (safety sensors?) using that power.
I haven't check if PacHy draws something when the doors are open.
We have left our van in the garage with doors open for 2-3 days at a time with no problems.
 

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I guess the solution to that one is to make sure the car is on battery operation before attempting to turn it off. :|

In that regard, it's just another reason the PacHy should have the ability to manually toggle between ICE and battery operation...Without the toggle, highway operation quickly uses up the battery (zero brake regeneration) and ICE operation would be at its highest efficiency.
Just FYI, zero brake regeneration is not why highway operation would quickly use up the battery.
 

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Related - if I plug in a cigarette-lighter-powered mini car vac, should it be in OFF, ACC or RUN so as to not wear down the battery? Or does it matter?
 

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Does it matter then if it's in ACC or RUN? Is one method preferred if I use accessories?
 

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I prefer to use run, so there's no chance of killing the 12V battery. Having said that tho, I have noticed that if the car is plugged in, any use of 12V starts the charging going even if the pack is full. When this happens, I'm sure the big battery begins charging the small one, but you'll need to hook up a voltmeter to verify that, as there are no displays to tell you.
 

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And then there's the good old Fuel and Oil Refresh Mode (FORM). I have no idea how FORM would respond if someone tried to drive a PacHy on battery, alone, for an extended period of time with zero gas in the tank. I can sure see a major issue (i.e., immobilization) if FORM attempted to engage with no fuel in the tank.
Happened to me this Monday. FORM sucked the tank dry, the dashboard flashed "the turtle" and the van continued like nothing happened.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Happened to me this Monday. FORM sucked the tank dry, the dashboard flashed "the turtle" and the van continued like nothing happened.
What happened then? You refilled the tank and both FORM and the turtle went away? Or is just putting half a tank (eight gallons) enough to keep FORM at bay? I was wondering if anyone would mention the idea that lugging around more gas than necessary would decrease EV mileage.

In effect, FORM will keep the ICE going to the point of emptying the tank, and it then switches back to the traction battery?

That's quite an interesting situation. Keeping the battery charged as a reserve would seem to be a prudent measure when FORM kicks in. Of course, I'm not too keen on bringing up the turtle for an empty tank, either.

Would running the tank dry on FORM, then using a charged battery to get to a gas station and put just enough gas in the tank reset FORM and keep it from returning in the near future?
 

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I've had FORM come on a half dozen times in two months of ownership, and every time it had nothing to do with the fuel. It was heating up the oil to boil the moisture out of it. Every time it stayed on for two or three days, then turned off without adding any gas.

Heating the oil up to condition the oil is critical to long engine life. This is not something you want to defeat or play games with. This comes from a certified ASE master mechanic. (me)
 

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I've had FORM come on a half dozen times in two months of ownership, and every time it had nothing to do with the fuel. It was heating up the oil to boil the moisture out of it. Every time it stayed on for two or three days, then turned off without adding any gas.

Heating the oil up to condition the oil is critical to long engine life. This is not something you want to defeat or play games with. This comes from a certified ASE master mechanic. (me)
Where does that condensation escape to when it boils? Does it still go through the engine and out the exhaust as steam?
 
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