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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Ok, ok. Let's keep this things civil here. To OverEasy, after towing with your Pachy for a while, maybe you would be kind enough to report back with your experience (good or bad). Perhaps let us know what you hooked up, how many pounds (net), any mountains, transmission and oil temps, all that good shtuff. Thanks!
Given how this thread has gone downhill from keyboard warriors who don't tow, I think I'll keep my mouth shut!
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
It does in fact have 6 compression spring-tensioned torque limiter clutch packs on the Si (Single Inputshaft). This is most likely the reason for NO towing as they are rated for the weight of the vehicle. Put a trailer behind it traveling up mountains with the ICE running putting your foot in it, could cause those to start slipping burning them out quickly. They are designed for limited-slip on startup and short quick accelerations, not continuous torque from heavy loads. If those clutch packs get stripped/burned out you will be going nowhere.

I don't see towing in all-electric would cause any problems, BUT in hybrid charge sustaining mode I do see a failure point in the torque limiter clutch packs under heavy load as those were not engineered for that.
I saw that in Prof. Kelly's video, and thank you for sharing it here. I tow as to be gentle on the equipment - smooth, gentle acceleration, and keeping with the flow of traffic in the slow lane, moving over to to the truck climbing lane on long uphill grades. Knowing there's a friction clutch involved, I'll be even more gentle when the ICE is running, and change the transmission fluid more frequently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
For what it's worth, here's John Kelly's response when I asked him about the capabilities of Si-EVT:


View attachment 47274
That man is a treasure. I was in bed with a migraine one day and listened to his hour-and-a-half (!!!) video on the history of GM Automatic Transmission Fluid. Helped me keep my mind off the pain, and I learned some things as I drifted in and out of sleep. I teach an Engineering course at the local state university and strive for his level of detail. Thank you for contacting him and posting his reply.
 
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It does in fact have 6 compression spring-tensioned torque limiter clutch packs on the Si (Single Inputshaft). This is most likely the reason for NO towing as they are rated for the weight of the vehicle. Put a trailer behind it traveling up mountains with the ICE running putting your foot in it, could cause those to start slipping burning them out quickly. They are designed for limited-slip on startup and short quick accelerations, not continuous torque from heavy loads. If those clutch packs get stripped/burned out you will be going nowhere.

I don't see towing in all-electric would cause any problems, BUT in hybrid charge sustaining mode I do see a failure point in the torque limiter clutch packs under heavy load as those were not engineered for that.
I think you're on to something here. I can definitely see this clutch pack as the weak link that precludes any towing. One thing to remember is that if they give a tow rating to the car, drivers will expect to tow that weight in all conditions (especially up & down mountains). The van might very well be capable of more on flat, level ground, but it's the steep grades that'll be an issue. People won't make the distinction, so they just said "no towing".
 

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My opinion is is to not tow with the vehicle. How ever I am not going to stop someone from doing what they want with their vehicle. If you want to tow with it, go for it! I have a '18 PacHy and there is a sticker on the driver door jamb that states the vehicle should not have more than 1100lbs of passengers and cargo combined.
 

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My opinion is is to not tow with the vehicle. How ever I am not going to stop someone from doing what they want with their vehicle. If you want to tow with it, go for it! I have a '18 PacHy and there is a sticker on the driver door jamb that states the vehicle should not have more than 1100lbs of passengers and cargo combined.
To be fair, this limitation is very likely for the tires. The vehicle weighs 5,000 lbs already, and each of those 4 tires can only take so much before it becomes unsafe.

That doesn't mean that the brakes, or the mechanical clutch inside the transmission, can't handle a 1,500 lbs trailer. But it also doesn't doesn't mean that, so the jury is still out, and we only have a few anecdotes here.
 

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To be fair, this limitation is very likely for the tires. The vehicle weighs 5,000 lbs already, and each of those 4 tires can only take so much before it becomes unsafe.

That doesn't mean that the brakes, or the mechanical clutch inside the transmission, can't handle a 1,500 lbs trailer. But it also doesn't doesn't mean that, so the jury is still out, and we only have a few anecdotes here.
I understand what you are saying. How ever if it was just for tires, why is the gas version rated higher for towing and has a tow package as an option with the same tires installed? The load index for the factory tire is 103. With a 103 index each tire can handle 1929 lbs per tire at max PSI. 1929 X 4 = 7716 total. I'm sure Chrysler put some cushion in the capacity of the vehicle max capacity but it's just like any thing else, it may be able to tow 1500 lbs plus all the weight in the car for now but for how long? However maybe they never did any research in tow testing with the Hybrid version and this can tow more than the gas version in reality! In the end we may never know. It all depends on if you are willing to get a warranty coverage declined due to failed transmission. Or pay for one yourself if it does fail.

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I understand what you are saying. How ever if it was just for tires, why is the gas version rated higher for towing and has a tow package as an option with the same tires installed? The load index for the factory tire is 103. With a 103 index each tire can handle 1929 lbs per tire at max PSI. 1929 X 4 = 7716 total. I'm sure Chrysler put some cushion in the capacity of the vehicle max capacity but it's just like any thing else, it may be able to tow 1500 lbs plus all the weight in the car for now but for how long? However maybe they never did any research in tow testing with the Hybrid version and this can tow more than the gas version in reality! In the end we may never know. It all depends on if you are willing to get a warranty coverage declined due to failed transmission. Or pay for one yourself if it does fail.

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Another PACHY owner faced an out of pocket (and out of warranty) expense of $20k to replace their transmission. I'm not sure I'd be willing to take that risk with towing. For $20k you could buy a vehicle much better equipped for towing. Just my opinion.
 

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Another PACHY owner faced an out of pocket (and out of warranty) expense of $20k to replace their transmission. I'm not sure I'd be willing to take that risk with towing. For $20k you could buy a vehicle much better equipped for towing. Just my opinion.
Doubt. Transmissions are what, $5-7k max? I'm fairly sure it doesn't take $13-15k in labor to replace a transmission. That's what, 130-150 labor hours? So, 4 weeks of somebody working on one vehicle exclusively?
 

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Doubt. Transmissions are what, $5-7k max? I'm fairly sure it doesn't take $13-15k in labor to replace a transmission. That's what, 130-150 labor hours? So, 4 weeks of somebody working on one vehicle exclusively?
Probably got the $20k from this thread:

 

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I know many are worried about towing. My Pachy has been towing our 2400lbs camper (more like 3000lbs loaded up) for a while now and it works perfectly fine. In fact, Chrysler will continue to warranty the van with no questions asked if you have a hitch installed through a Chrysler dealership.
There was a thread on here from someone who was having a devil of a time finding a Chrysler dealer who would install a hitch on his Pachy. They all declined. I think this is the thread. The consensus seemed to be that dealers would only install Mopar parts to prevent invalidating the warranty, and Mopar does not supply towing package parts for Pachys.
 

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I know many are worried about towing. My Pachy has been towing our 2400lbs camper (more like 3000lbs loaded up) for a while now and it works perfectly fine. In fact, Chrysler will continue to warranty the van with no questions asked if you have a hitch installed through a Chrysler dealership. I monitor trans temp and stress with and obd reader and there are no concerns at all. (Obviously don’t drive the van like a race car, but overtaking and large hills are no sweat with common sense driving) Also, anything over 2000lbs does better with trailer brakes, but not necessary. Hope this helps some.
What Trailer wiring package do you have? I assume you have trailer brakes as well?
I have the OEM hitch, but don't want to get the OEM wiring as it is all controlled by the ECU and that will take an ECU update, which a Pachy probably cannot take.
 

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What Trailer wiring package do you have? I assume you have trailer brakes as well?
I have the OEM hitch, but don't want to get the OEM wiring as it is all controlled by the ECU and that will take an ECU update, which a Pachy probably cannot take.
Towards the bottom......
 

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My opinion is is to not tow with the vehicle. How ever I am not going to stop someone from doing what they want with their vehicle. If you want to tow with it, go for it! I have a '18 PacHy and there is a sticker on the driver door jamb that states the vehicle should not have more than 1100lbs of passengers and cargo combined.
Let's figure 100 lbs for food/drinks/misc. junk. It leaves 1000 lbs for 7 passengers or 143 lbs per person. This is insulting to Americans.
 

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My opinion is is to not tow with the vehicle. How ever I am not going to stop someone from doing what they want with their vehicle. If you want to tow with it, go for it! I have a '18 PacHy and there is a sticker on the driver door jamb that states the vehicle should not have more than 1100lbs of passengers and cargo combined.
This is really alarming
..How come 7 passenger and cargo weight is projected to be less than 498 KG?
 

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Let's figure 100 lbs for food/drinks/misc. junk. It leaves 1000 lbs for 7 passengers or 143 lbs per person. This is insulting to Americans.
Any small plane pilots out there see this every time they fly. They have to balance passengers/luggage and fuel load/endurance every time. Fill the seats and you cannot fill the fuel tanks. And vice versa.
 

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Let's figure 100 lbs for food/drinks/misc. junk. It leaves 1000 lbs for 7 passengers or 143 lbs per person. This is insulting to Americans.
Hahaha! Insulting to Americans. Maybe Chrysler is trying to tell every one something. Your all over weight! Only the skinny track and field participants in the Olympics can use this van.

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Thanks for everybody's input. Good discussion (and impassioned!).
I have a 2018 Pachy and love it, but not being able to tow a pop up camper with it is a serious bummer. I can't risk destroying the van.
I'm looking for a vehicle to tow a pop up to the Sierras 5-10 times per year, but want to stay with electric or plugin hybrid because the rest of the time I use it will be around town and I prefer the feel of electric cars.
Any suggestions on an electric/phev tow vehicle as big as the Pachy?
 

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Thanks for everybody's input. Good discussion (and impassioned!).
I have a 2018 Pachy and love it, but not being able to tow a pop up camper with it is a serious bummer. I can't risk destroying the van.
I'm looking for a vehicle to tow a pop up to the Sierras 5-10 times per year, but want to stay with electric or plugin hybrid because the rest of the time I use it will be around town and I prefer the feel of electric cars.
Any suggestions on an electric/phev tow vehicle as big as the Pachy?
There are a few vehicles that could tow but will have a lower passenger count. The Jeep Wrangler 4XE PHEV can tow up to 3500 lbs plus payload. If more weight capability is needed then go with a Ford F150 hybrid (not a plug in).

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