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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I bought a 2018 Pacifica Hybrid limited last week and have question on battery charging.
I understand it is not good to go to 100% charge on battery and also go all the way to 0% (for the battery life). But this is not practical with Pacifica hybrid because of only 55Km range. If we only stick to 10-90% of the battery capacity, you loose valuable 10km out of 55km (although it is not possible to stop at 10%).
Do you guys know if this is factored in their design/charging?
Is it okay if we go all the way to 100% every time?
I usually charge 1-2 times every day. Any issue with number of charge cycles in long run?

Thanks
SVN
 

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The PacHy self-regulates state-of-charge to protect its battery. When the display reads 100% charge, the actual charge is roughly 80% of the battery's actual capacity. Same thing on the low end, with "0%" being roughly 20% of actual charge state. So owners don't need to worry about charging to "100%" or depleting to "0%"; those numbers only apply to the usable portion of the battery. So most people who've commented on the issue in this forum state that, though the battery is a 16 kWh battery, we effectively get access to 14.4 kWh of that capacity; the rest is held in inaccessible reserve in order to preserve the battery's life.

Though you are right that Chrysler could've increased range by allowing actual 0-100% (or 10-90%) charge states from the battery, I think ultimately its market research suggested that customers would be satisfied with the range as delivered and it wasn't about to send out batteries that could be run down in a matter of years and needing replacement. That would've either been a huge financial loss for Chrysler or a huge hit to overall depreciation for the owner, depending on who bore the burden. 55km for a vehicle this size and weight is already a pretty fantastic achievement, IMHO.
 

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The PacHy self-regulates state-of-charge to protect its battery. When the display reads 100% charge, the actual charge is roughly 80% of the battery's actual capacity. Same thing on the low end, with "0%" being roughly 20% of actual charge state. So owners don't need to worry about charging to "100%" or depleting to "0%"; those numbers only apply to the usable portion of the battery. So most people who've commented on the issue in this forum state that, though the battery is a 16 kWh battery, we effectively get access to 14.4 kWh of that capacity; the rest is held in inaccessible reserve in order to preserve the battery's life.

Though you are right that Chrysler could've increased range by allowing actual 0-100% (or 10-90%) charge states from the battery, I think ultimately its market research suggested that customers would be satisfied with the range as delivered and it wasn't about to send out batteries that could be run down in a matter of years and needing replacement. That would've either been a huge financial loss for Chrysler or a huge hit to overall depreciation for the owner, depending on who bore the burden. 55km for a vehicle this size and weight is already a pretty fantastic achievement, IMHO.
its a good information to know about the battery and charging system
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Pleckerling for the reply. And I hope number of charging cycles should not matter
 

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Thanks Pleckerling for the reply. And I hope number of charging cycles should not matter
As with any rechargeable battery, my educated guess is that, given enough cycles, any battery will lose some of its charge. As I wrote above, the ~20%-80% constraint should mitigate this to an extent. But, based on the kind of fuel savings that folks on here have been posting through the regular use of the battery, I think that any increased depreciation from regularly using the battery is more than compensated for in the money you save (assuming your electric rates mean that juice is cheaper than gas). So I would just enjoy the EV miles (or kilometers!) and not worry about the impact to battery longevity of frequent cycles. Again, just my opinion. I welcome comments from the PacHy veterans out there!
 

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Hi All,

I bought a 2018 Pacifica Hybrid limited last week and have question on battery charging.
I understand it is not good to go to 100% charge on battery and also go all the way to 0% (for the battery life). But this is not practical with Pacifica hybrid because of only 55Km range. If we only stick to 10-90% of the battery capacity, you loose valuable 10km out of 55km (although it is not possible to stop at 10%).
Do you guys know if this is factored in their design/charging?
Is it okay if we go all the way to 100% every time?
I usually charge 1-2 times every day. Any issue with number of charge cycles in long run?

Thanks
SVN
The vehicle is designed by the engineers to go from 0% to 100%. Explain what is not good about it?

Somedays I recharge five times from 0% to 100%. I have no concerns about this. Mine is operating as it is designed.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Lithium ion batteries life is reduced is it is constantly charged to 100% and number of cycles effect the performance of the battery as well. Sweet spot for the battery is always between 10-90%. There are lot of article about it in internet. One example is below.

 

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Discussion Starter #8
It may work up to 8 years as per the manufacturer warranty. But just wanted to know if needed to do more to prolong the life after that.
 

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Lithium ion batteries life is reduced is it is constantly charged to 100% and number of cycles effect the performance of the battery as well. Sweet spot for the battery is always between 10-90%. There are lot of article about it in internet. One example is below.

I already am aware of how Li batteries work. This does not apply the Pacifica.
 

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It may work up to 8 years as per the manufacturer warranty. But just wanted to know if needed to do more to prolong the life after that.
Warranty is 10 years or 100000/150000 miles whichever comes first depending on what state you live in.

I am hoping a Carbon-Ion battery will become available for the Pacifica in a few years. If so I will be upgrading.

Recenelty posted about this here.

https://www.pacificaforums.com/threads/carbon-ion-battery.44485/
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I was assuming Pacifica uses Li battery.
And regarding the warranty, yes 10 years. Typo
 

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I was assuming Pacifica uses Li battery.
And regarding the warranty, yes 10 years. Typo
It does have a Li battery and the engineers already factored that in the usable amount.

(y)

As with SSDs. If the full capacity is used, it will kill one in less than a month as the cells begin to die. If 20% is never factored into the capacity, they can potentially last decades as they swap data to good unused cells as they die. The same applies to the life of the battery.
 

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Lithium ion batteries life is reduced is it is constantly charged to 100% and number of cycles effect the performance of the battery as well. Sweet spot for the battery is always between 10-90%. There are lot of article about it in internet. One example is below.

I would imagine most cellphone & computer manufacturers do the same thing too. When the gauge shows 100% it’s really 80-90 %. When the gauge shows 0% it’s really 10-20%.
 

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I would imagine most cellphone & computer manufacturers do the same thing too. When the gauge shows 100% it’s really 80-90 %. When the gauge shows 0% it’s really 10-20%.
You are 100% correct! (y)
 

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We are trying to determine the exact charging boundaries here: https://www.pacificaforums.com/threads/battery-monitoring-with-alfaobd.44447/#post-573357
It appears that the lower buffer is 25% and the upper one is 90%
Undercharging the battery is beneficial, but as you said, the electric range is already low. Another aspect of it is that the battery will degrade faster if stored fully charged. I set the charging schedule to allow charging only between 6AM and 5PM. Thus I can plug the van in the evening, and it will be charged by 8AM. It has another benefit of thermally conditioning the battery in a colder weather.
 

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I could bet a bottle of a good cognac on it. :)


Do you have tech sheets on this?

Somewhere in the middle they say:
_ __ __ ___ _ _ _ _ _ __ LITHIUM-ION SUPERCAPACITOR (EDLC) CARBON-ION
Energy Density _ _ __ High __ _ _ __ _ _ _ Low _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Medium

Wiki on supercapacitors:
As of 2013 commercial specific energies range from around 0.5 to 15 Wh/kg. For comparison, an aluminum electrolytic capacitor stores typically 0.01 to 0.3 Wh/kg, while a conventional lead-acid battery stores typically 30 to 40 Wh/kg and modern lithium-ion batteries 100 to 265 Wh/kg. Supercapacitors can therefore store 10 to 100 times more energy than electrolytic capacitors, but only one tenth as much as batteries.
Giving their unwillingness to quote a specific number suggests that their "Medium" gravitates towards "Low".
The ultra fast charge promise is irrelevant. The bottleneck in the automotive applications is not the battery, it is the power delivery.
 

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