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Battery dies on Pacifica Hybrid - Rolls out of driveway into street!

21790 Views 53 Replies 28 Participants Last post by  WaileaKid, 
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This morning my 2018 Hybrid Limited was dead. It had been plugged in overnight using the 110 charger that came with the van. It would not start, and briefly flashed some kind of service needed warning on the screen. Then the screen turned off and the vehicle repeatedly made a clicking sound. The screen would not come back on, and the van was completely unresponsive.

We exited the van and went back inside the house to call the dealership. When I looked back out the window, I noticed the windshield wipers were ever so slowly in motion back and forth. I checked the switch but the wiper was set to the “off” position. None of the wiper controls would change the setting. The dealership set me up with a number for Chrysler tow.

I exited the vehicle to make the call, and was standing about 20 feet away from the van. Suddenly the van started rolling backward down the driveway and into the street! Fortunately it came to a stop in the middle of the street without hitting anyone or anything! I ran over and checked it and still everything was unresponsive, the wipers no longer moving however the parking brake button, and shifter buttons, and overhead lights were flashing.

Fortunately no one was behind the van or they could have been seriously hurt or killed! We had the van towed to the dealership. The tow company the Chrysler contracts with lifted the front tires and towed it on its rear wheels (hopefully that didnt damage anything).

This is the third electrical issue with this van. The day I purchased it, the salesman went to pull it around and found the van to be dead. He said someone left a light on. It sounded like they were going to replace the battery, but ended up just jump starting it.

Then on 1/7 I brought the van in for service again because of a speaker static noise when brakes were applied while the blu ray was playing a movie over the speakers. They checked and found no issue. They said they charged the battery.

Now just two days later the van is not only completely dead in my driveway, but it is a MAJOR safety issue, that for any reason it would disengage from park and roll backward! I just don’t feel safe in this vehicle anymore and it has not even been 3 weeks, and less than 650miles on it.

I let my dealership know, and as a member here suggested, I reached out to @ChryslerCares. I expect the dealer to work with Chrysler to get me a vehicle I can feel safe putting my family in. Does anyone have any ideas here on what could cause the van to release all brakes and roll backward?? The hood was raised at the time this happened as well.

https://youtu.be/6_LY7blNJns

https://youtu.be/JFcp0IDbfqI

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I'd also suggest filing a NHTSA complaint if you're in the US.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

The behavior of the wipers is pretty normal if the 12v battery is almost dead. Chrysler and many automakers use internal DC-DC voltage regulators on some of the control modules to maintain a steady internal operating voltage when the input voltage can drift. Off memory on some other models I think the power train computer can still function down to around mid-10 volts.

I haven't looked at the Pacifica Hybrid factory service manual and not sure of the exact specs on all of the control modules, but if the voltage dropped just below acceptable and the battery wasn't completely dead, you can see weird behaviors. The delay and rain sensing wipers have a controller and don't work just off the switch. You might also see weird warning lights from the ABS braking controller, electronic power steering, entertainment system acting odd, etc.

When the rotary shifter being nothing more than an electronic switch with no physical connection to the transmission, there's the parking pawl that locks the trans into park is electrically driven. If the battery had just enough voltage to power on the controller then voltage sagged I could see a scenario when it acted incorrect and disengaged the parking pawl. There should be some safeguards, like the reprogramming to automatically engage the electronic parking bread on the other FCA models after people were getting out and leaving the car in drive.
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[email protected]




The link you put in seems to be about the Lemon Law not the other incident
where the brake release was caught on Camera at a Dealership during the night.
Even the referenced link in Entry 3
I do remember seeing the thread where this was described just didn't want to spend
a lot of time finding it.



nothing beats a mechanical brake when you need it I guess.

Or maybe everybody needs to start putting wheel chalks behind there wheels.
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drocketman
Bitslizer said:
As long as the VAN is "actively" charging, the 12v battery is being top up (the cig lighter socket would read 14.5v+) when the 12v is not charging it would read below 12.7v. On a healthy 12v system, leaving 1 interior light on manually (i.e. the front driver side dome light) overnight should not drain the battery, and I "think" unless manually turned on, the rest of the interior lights that are on auto/door mode would time out (as in if you left the door open overnight).

Once the battery drain reach about 12.0v things start acting up, in my experience at 12.0v the van would still start (as in show ready to drive, not necessarily turning over the gas engine), but if you try to use the power tailgate without starting the VAN (which would charge the 12v system/14.5v+), the tailgate would not lift fully.

For reference, I have 2x distinct front and rear dashcams that are configured to shut off at 12.2v and continually record even when parked, they and the VAN works fine overnight.

For reference the high voltage system wake up every 21 days to check the 12v system and top it up, but if the VAN has been sitting on the lot for a long time, both system can get drained if the dealer does not keep the HV charged up, beyond a certain point the Van will prioritize protecting the HV battery over the 12v battery. a 12v battery drained beyond certain point would be permanently damaged which then cannot be fully charge or keep degrading quickly. What's the build date of the VAN? that may potentially tell you how long it has been sitting on the dealer lot without being charged up (ie long time on the lot = greater chance of damaged 12v battery) if its your 12v system but the VAN is recently build, it may not be the 12v battery but something else.

Another recently popped up cause for random electrical issue is corroded or badly grounded 12v system grounding. Good luck to the OP!
Click to expand...
Good write up.
I just preemptively replaced my 12V battery. I had noticed the doors not completing transit as well. The hatch probably about a half dozen times would move about a foot to open and then stop or continue on coast to open. And as many times, my left sliding door would do similar things. While closing it would not make it to latch and roll back open or would fail to latch.
My PacHy Limited build was 02/2018 and my purchase date was 10/26/2018 so it sat on the lot a long time. Whether they charged it or let it die is unknown over those 8 months. My suspicions are based on data now and are getting more solid as time goes on. I discharge tested the old battery on the bench using the same method and conditions that I discharge tested the new battery prior to installing. I kept the testing as apples-to-apples as possible. The new battery is identical to the old in color, case casting, vent, handles, in every way. The only difference is the label. The new battery is a champion H6 AGM (just like the original) from Pep Boys on sale with taxes and fees $173 (4 year free replacement guarantee). It was date coded 11/2018. The "old" battery (<3 months from purchase and 2100 miles) had 78 to 79% of the capacity of the new battery. This is subject to interpretation but I view it as significant. The lower capacity may be blamed on several possibilities: 1. the batteries being poor quality, 2. damaged pre-delivery from neglect, 3. the car is damaging the batteries by overcharging, or 4. the "normal" use of the battery in the PacHy is draining it too much. I have solved 1 and 2 by replacing the battery and I am now monitoring the battery drain and charging for 3 and 4 to see what is actually happening to the battery, and what I can do about it.

I love this car and so does my wife. So I am doing whatever is necessary to prevent her from being left stranded or worse. As many have reported, feeling that it is a safe and reliable car is paramount. Losing that, my wife and others either do not or would not want the car.
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drocketman
blackbird said:
I'd also suggest filing a NHTSA complaint if you're in the US.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

The behavior of the wipers is pretty normal if the 12v battery is almost dead. Chrysler and many automakers use internal DC-DC voltage regulators on some of the control modules to maintain a steady internal operating voltage when the input voltage can drift. Off memory on some other models I think the power train computer can still function down to around mid-10 volts.thou

I haven't looked at the Pacifica Hybrid factory service manual and not sure of the exact specs on all of the control modules, but if the voltage dropped just below acceptable and the battery wasn't completely dead, you can see weird behaviors. The delay and rain sensing wipers have a controller and don't work just off the switch. You might also see weird warning lights from the ABS braking controller, electronic power steering, entertainment system acting odd, etc.

When the rotary shifter being nothing more than an electronic switch with no physical connection to the transmission, there's the parking pawl that locks the trans into park is electrically driven. If the battery had just enough voltage to power on the controller then voltage sagged I could see a scenario when it acted incorrect and disengaged the parking pawl. There should be some safeguards, like the reprogramming to automatically engage the electronic parking bread on the other FCA models after people were getting out and leaving the car in drive.
Click to expand...
The power converter in the PacHy that is analogous to the alternator and voltage regulation in a typical gas car, can supply a regulated voltage to the 12V battery system. I have measured it between 14.2 and 14.8 Volts whenever the car is in Run or the car is being charged while plugged in. It also turns on at other times. For example, when I open the motor driven hatch, it does NOT come on. But when I open the driver door while in possession of the key fob, it comes on. Whenever it is on, it is charging the 12v battery as well as providing a very good voltage to all the 12V system components in the car. However, as it says in the manual, this regulator has current delivery limitations as do all cars. It can be loaded heavily and the voltage may sag. Though I have never seen it below 14V while on.
This power converter will not power up if the 12V battery is below 10V. This is a limitation built into the car for whatever reason and is documented. So while the car is off and dormant, if the 12V battery falls below 10V for whatever reason, the car will not charge it. If there is some load on the 12V system that is enough to drain the 12V battery past this 10 volt terminal voltage while the car is off, then it will die. Even if the motive battery is at 100%. And as many will agree, weird stuff can AND DOES happen to electronics with a slowly declining 12V battery, e.g., coming out of park and rolling into the street, into other cars, or heaven forbid over someone. And some of this IS or should be of interest to the NHTSA.
Other possible safeguards may be to have a 12V battery disconnect when its voltage falls below a certain threshold (we call that a controlled deorbit:wink2:), or alarms that sound or flash when the 12V battery health is determined to be at risk.
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ctuna said:
[email protected]




The link you put in seems to be about the Lemon Law not the other incident
where the brake release was caught on Camera at a Dealership during the night.
Even the referenced link in Entry 3
I do remember seeing the thread where this was described just didn't want to spend
a lot of time finding it.



nothing beats a mechanical brake when you need it I guess.

Or maybe everybody needs to start putting wheel chalks behind there wheels.
Click to expand...
Hmm maybe some others could double check. Here is post #3 of that thread....


AdrianaHybrid18 said:
Actually no. Dealership called me this morning. During the night the car drove itself into another car on their lot and crashed both of them. Possessed maybe? I’ve never heard of anything so crazy. Meeting with them on Monday to discuss what on earth to do now ?
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Frig
I think this is the thread you meant:

https://www.pacificaforums.com/foru...nd-new-hybrid-completely-died.html#post528153
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C
Yep that's the one thanks
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Frig said:
I think this is the thread you meant:

https://www.pacificaforums.com/foru...nd-new-hybrid-completely-died.html#post528153
Click to expand...

Thanks yes, I fixed my link as well. I copied it on mobile and it showed up differently on desktop.
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drocketman said:
If there is some load on the 12V system that is enough to drain the 12V battery past this 10 volt terminal voltage while the car is off, then it will die..weird stuff can AND DOES happen ...e.g., coming out of park and rolling into the street, into other cars, or heaven forbid over someone. ... Other possible safeguards ...
Click to expand...

Maybe wheel chocks?
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10v = a dead / permanently damaged battery. about 11.6v at room temp is considered 0% charge. Charging a damaged battery can be unsafe, thus the system won't charge it if the voltage is too low. It may also be to prevent people from putting in a wrong battery... a 6v lead acid battery being fed 14.5v can be bad as well.
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W
Does anyone use the auto park brake option, where the car's parking brake is applied anytime the vehicle is parked and turned off? Was looking through the manual and saw they recommend the parking brake be set every time the vehicle is parked, that might be what everyone manufacturer says but I haven't looked through other manuals. In that same section, they talked about how the parking brake can be set to an auto mode basically, where anytime you do a normal park/shut off it sets itself, then when you start the car it disables itself.

I was planning on using that feature since it took care of everything for you, unless the only two people to have used it saw their car roll out of their driveway while it was parked...
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My experiences, landing deadstick twice

Hi everyone, I'd like to add my experiences with my 2018 Pacifica hybrid limited. It's fairly well loaded and was built in early January 2018. I bought it in May of 2018. Really like the car, but I'm not real sure it's safe. I had the first shop visit on July 6, 2018 for the U73 recall. The second shop visit was November 8 for the U94 recall. On November 19th, I was driving in town about a quarter mile from my house when the car died. I was able to coast to the side of the road but unable to restart the van. It was towed to the dealership where I bought it (about 2 miles away). It was there 16 days, a star account was started, and the PIM was replaced. Most recently January 10th, the car died again under similar circumstances. I coasted to the side of the road and attempted to restart the car. After several attempts, the car restarted but the yellow engine light remained on. I drove it to the dealership and got a loaner. They re-flashed the computer, cleaned the contacts under the hood, drove it 18 miles and said that it seemed to be OK. They had it one day. Always looking for a place to safely coast to while driving now. Trust will build slowly. As a side note, one little thing, when I fuel up, I close the fuel door, climb in, start the van, have to step out and re-close the fuel door and then proceed. The dealership is going to replace the fuel door mechanism. Taking care of the symptom and not the cause?
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While the battery issue could be explained by a bad batch of batteries installed at the factory, I wonder if it's a software issue. Think of like a memory leak in bad code, except here it causes some gate to be left open which keeps pulling charge from the 12v battery.

I also think of phone issues where you lose cell tower signal, so the phone keeps pinging and searching for a tower, causing quicker battery drain. Extend that idea to the PacHy. If it has a wireless connection for OTA updates and such, is there an "airplane" mode to disable that, in case it's causing issues?
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WilliamWeir said:
Does anyone use the auto park brake option, where the car's parking brake is applied anytime the vehicle is parked and turned off? Was looking through the manual and saw they recommend the parking brake be set every time the vehicle is parked, that might be what everyone manufacturer says but I haven't looked through other manuals. In that same section, they talked about how the parking brake can be set to an auto mode basically, where anytime you do a normal park/shut off it sets itself, then when you start the car it disables itself.

I was planning on using that feature since it took care of everything for you, unless the only two people to have used it saw their car roll out of their driveway while it was parked...
Click to expand...
I don't have a hybrid, but I use the auto parking brake. You put a check in the touchscreen settings if desired. For the auto brake to disengage: buckle driver's seat belt, start van, and turn the dial to put in gear. Keep in mind not to rotate the gear dial too quickly or it seems like the auto parking brake doesn't disengage as well. Occasionally I have to press the button to disengage it.

As far as the OP's hybrid parking brake is concerned, since the brake light dot was also flashing, it seems like it was supposed to be engaged. Not sure what happened with the electrical system there.
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C
Hybrid parking lock is totaly different than gas



I looked at this video a couple of times.


There is a mechanism called a parking paul that
is basically a finger that engages something and stops the motor /rotating/trans axle
form rotating.
I can't see how this relates to a gas car at all .
Seems way different.
Total power loss and parking Paul disengages is what I get from this.



One of the things that kind of bothers me is they have
a internal filter that cannot be changed.
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WilliamWeir said:
Does anyone use the auto park brake option, where the car's parking brake is applied anytime the vehicle is parked and turned off? Was looking through the manual and saw they recommend the parking brake be set every time the vehicle is parked, that might be what everyone manufacturer says but I haven't looked through other manuals. In that same section, they talked about how the parking brake can be set to an auto mode basically, where anytime you do a normal park/shut off it sets itself, then when you start the car it disables itself.



I was planning on using that feature since it took care of everything for you, unless the only two people to have used it saw their car roll out of their driveway while it was parked...
Click to expand...


I use the auto parking brake on my gas model as well. Frees up a lot of concerns about forgetting to apply the park brake. With small kids it’s an extra safety level as well. The only issue is (as mentioned above) you have to put your seatbelt first (before starting the engine ideally) to ensure that the parking brake releases on changing gear or driving.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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ctuna said:
Total power loss and parking Paul disengages is what I get from this.
Click to expand...
The service manager was telling me that the technicial details he looked into specifically says that a loss of power will not disengage the brake. I think that is how the system is designed. However I don’t think that accounts for “scrambled brain” or irratic things happening when lower or incorrect voltage is applied to accesories. Likely the digital shifter is affected as well would be my best guess. I think most likely the van did have enough power to disengage.
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stop-eject
[email protected] said:
The service manager was telling me that the technicial details he looked into specifically says that a loss of power will not disengage the brake. I think that is how the system is designed. However I don’t think that accounts for “scrambled brain” or irratic things happening when lower or incorrect voltage is applied to accesories. Likely the digital shifter is affected as well would be my best guess. I think most likely the van did have enough power to disengage.
Click to expand...
I can imagine that when the battery voltage is below the normal operational range the electronics in the van can behave in a non deterministic way. In my case the rear lock on the opened sliding door shifted the closed position and I couldn't close the door until I hooked up another battery for emergency power.
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I have similar issues what you are facing except that my car did not roll off.. It is a pity the quality sucks.
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hookshot1 said:
Hi everyone, I'd like to add my experiences with my 2018 Pacifica hybrid limited. It's fairly well loaded and was built in early January 2018. I bought it in May of 2018. Really like the car, but I'm not real sure it's safe. I had the first shop visit on July 6, 2018 for the U73 recall. The second shop visit was November 8 for the U94 recall. On November 19th, I was driving in town about a quarter mile from my house when the car died. I was able to coast to the side of the road but unable to restart the van. It was towed to the dealership where I bought it (about 2 miles away). It was there 16 days, a star account was started, and the PIM was replaced. Most recently January 10th, the car died again under similar circumstances. I coasted to the side of the road and attempted to restart the car. After several attempts, the car restarted but the yellow engine light remained on. I drove it to the dealership and got a loaner. They re-flashed the computer, cleaned the contacts under the hood, drove it 18 miles and said that it seemed to be OK. They had it one day. Always looking for a place to safely coast to while driving now. Trust will build slowly. As a side note, one little thing, when I fuel up, I close the fuel door, climb in, start the van, have to step out and re-close the fuel door and then proceed. The dealership is going to replace the fuel door mechanism. Taking care of the symptom and not the cause?
Click to expand...
Your title which uses the phrase ‘landing deadstick twice’ is interesting. Are you a pilot?
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