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Interesting, so you are referring to the car losing charge while it's charging just because it takes so long to get a full charge over level one?
No, it's not because it's losing charge. It's just more efficient at 240V vs 120V. I don't know the ins and outs of it. I know it's around 10% difference from studies and user's experiences.
 
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Discussion Starter #22
the level 2 allows you to take multiple 30 mile all electric trips in a day. This saves much more $, if that type of driving scenario exists.
Good point. I hadn't thought of that.
No, it's not because it's losing charge. It's just more efficient at 240V vs 120V. I don't know the ins and outs of it. I know it's around 10% difference from studies and user's experiences.
Oh ok good to know about the L1 charger.
I've also seen erratic charge time calculations on a L1 charger. It is also prone to overheating at the wall plug. The plug has a temperature sensor in it, if the overheating is detected it sharply reduces the charging current and the charge may take forever.
You should know that the electric range may be sharply reduced by even insignificant elevation gain in your trip. Always estimate your range based on the round trip to compensate for the elevation changes. My best trip was 44.8 miles. In the winter, when I have to use heat, I'll be lucky to get 25 miles.
Oh interesting about the L1 charger. I have definitely noticed hills have an effect on mileage and I live in a fairly hilly part of the country. I will start doing my calculations round trip, that makes sense. Hadn't thought about that. Still, something seems amiss because just a month or two ago I seemed to be doing much closer to the advertised range in the same terrain.
 

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No, it's not because it's losing charge. It's just more efficient at 240V vs 120V. I don't know the ins and outs of it. I know it's around 10% difference from studies and user's experiences.
Most of the loses are the AC to DC conversion and cable loss that is all converted to heat (heat = wasted energy in this case). Since 120V takes so much longer to charge, more heat is dissipated over time in 120V level 1 mode versus 240V level 2 mode. More info here: A comparison of electric vehicle Level 1 and Level 2 charging efficiency - IEEE Conference Publication

As @triggerhappy007 mentioned though, it's more the time it would take to recouple the initial cost to buy and install a level 2 charger versus the lower level 1 charging efficiency used overnight to charge the vehicle. Level 2 charger makes a lot more sense if it's treated as future proofing for much higher capacity PEV vehicles that you may get down the road where level 1 charging is just not viable (Tesla, etc).
 

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I also look at it this way, you spent in excess of $35K on a cutting edge electric van, spend the $500 on the better charger and really get the best use and flexibility out of it.
 

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I'll also add, if you have a L2 charger, you can precondition the cabin climate before you leave and get most of the power needed via the cord rather than further reducing driving range.
 

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I also look at it this way, you spent in excess of $35K on a cutting edge electric van, spend the $500 on the better charger and really get the best use and flexibility out of it.
I wish it was only $500, some of us homeowners have our old breaker box (that needs upgrading for 240V) in a basement panel on the opposite end of the house over 25 feet from the garage :(
The installation cost adds up fairly quickly in that case, but it may be the pill you have to swallow to start owning real PEV in the future.
 

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I wish it was only $500, some of us homeowners have our old breaker box (that needs upgrading for 240V) in a basement panel on the opposite end of the house over 25 feet from the garage :(
The installation cost adds up fairly quickly in that case, but it may be the pill you have to swallow to start owning real PEV in the future.
Well, yeah, but that problem would exist needing to add any new 240 appliance. So, look at it this way, instead, add a hot tub and then say that was the reason for doing the pre-requisite work. Then the L2 is still just $500 :). If you do this, consider running a new sub-panel to the garage and run the L2 plug from that. Much better for future options and a better use of similar labor costs.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I'll also add, if you have a L2 charger, you can precondition the cabin climate before you leave and get most of the power needed via the cord rather than further reducing driving range.
Ohhh very interesting especially with winter coming. I think y'all have sold me on the L2 charger!
 

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Most of the loses are the AC to DC conversion and cable loss that is all converted to heat (heat = wasted energy in this case). Since 120V takes so much longer to charge, more heat is dissipated over time in 120V level 1 mode versus 240V level 2 mode. More info here: A comparison of electric vehicle Level 1 and Level 2 charging efficiency - IEEE Conference Publication

As @triggerhappy007 mentioned though, it's more the time it would take to recouple the initial cost to buy and install a level 2 charger versus the lower level 1 charging efficiency used overnight to charge the vehicle. Level 2 charger makes a lot more sense if it's treated as future proofing for much higher capacity PEV vehicles that you may get down the road where level 1 charging is just not viable (Tesla, etc).
That makes sense about the heat loss. Thanks for explaining.

I am not sure if we will ever get a PEV but we keep our cars for a long time so. And even aside from a break even there is definitely a convenience factor that's worth something, too.
 

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Hi, I'm new to posting here but have been browsing the forums since we were looking to purchase. We bought a 2020 Hybrid 35th anniversary package in April. We already have a hybrid Highlander so I'm used to driving with a light foot for efficiency. We live in town and drive mostly short trips, rarely on the interstate. I have a couple questions if anyone has feedback.

1) When fully charged, the battery never says 100%. It usually says 96% or 93%, with a range of anywhere from 28 to 34. Is it supposed to ever say 100%? It can say plugged in, charging complete and I turn it in immediately and it is still never 100%.

2). Over the last month I've seen my actual electric range drop drastically, from 30-32 to about 22-24. The weather hasn't changed so the AC usage is similar. I had the dealer test the battery when we took it in for the recall a couple weeks ago and they said it looked fine but to keep a log, so that's what I'm be been doing. Today my charge got me 22 miles before it hit zero, no highway. I've read here performance can vary greatly but such a drastic drop in range on a five month old vehicle is disappointing. Wondering if this is normal for others?

Thanks in advance!

the HV battery should charge to 100% - so you have a problem
could be with
1) charger
2) battery (High Voltage drive battery)
3) 12 volt battery
4) charge port
5) charge cable (EVSE)
6) time allowed to charge (dont use an extension cord.
7) Software (all the high tech stuff we have today)

The EVSE is just a power cord, it can supply a maximum of 1.5 KW per hour (the HV battery has a rated capacity of 16 KW. The actual charger is on board its maximum output is rated at 6.6 KW, but is only able to reach that with a level 2 EVSE (240 volt, 30 amp = 7.2 KW)

Range is more tricky and definitely dependent on the HV battery charge level, Outside climate (wind, rain, temperature), and the settings of the vehicle climate system. You can monitor the energy flow on the Uconnect screen "EV app" - i could not find a reference to the app in the owners manuals.

We bought our 2020 April 3, i only used the included Level 1 EVSE just 2 times before I had my level 2 EVSE (lucky i had easy access to a 240 volt 50 Amp power outlet). Ours always charges to 100% indicated with a range of 38 miles so far - 44 EVSE charge cycles to date. My level 2 EVSE has a screen that shows voltage, time, temp and KW that were passed thru, never has been over 12.7 KW to charge from less than 1% to 100% (the HV battery is never actually charged to 100% or discharged to 0% - the % of charge shown on the dash is an estimate calculated by the vehicle via software. The HV battery is NEVER fully charged or discharged to help preserve its life cycle.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
the HV battery should charge to 100% - so you have a problem
could be with
1) charger
2) battery (High Voltage drive battery)
3) 12 volt battery
4) charge port
5) charge cable (EVSE)
6) time allowed to charge (dont use an extension cord.
7) Software (all the high tech stuff we have today)

The EVSE is just a power cord, it can supply a maximum of 1.5 KW per hour (the HV battery has a rated capacity of 16 KW. The actual charger is on board its maximum output is rated at 6.6 KW, but is only able to reach that with a level 2 EVSE (240 volt, 30 amp = 7.2 KW)

Range is more tricky and definitely dependent on the HV battery charge level, Outside climate (wind, rain, temperature), and the settings of the vehicle climate system. You can monitor the energy flow on the Uconnect screen "EV app" - i could not find a reference to the app in the owners manuals.

We bought our 2020 April 3, i only used the included Level 1 EVSE just 2 times before I had my level 2 EVSE (lucky i had easy access to a 240 volt 50 Amp power outlet). Ours always charges to 100% indicated with a range of 38 miles so far - 44 EVSE charge cycles to date. My level 2 EVSE has a screen that shows voltage, time, temp and KW that were passed thru, never has been over 12.7 KW to charge from less than 1% to 100% (the HV battery is never actually charged to 100% or discharged to 0% - the % of charge shown on the dash is an estimate calculated by the vehicle via software. The HV battery is NEVER fully charged or discharged to help preserve its life cycle.
Thanks, this is helpful info, espe knowing everyone's charges to 100%. I didn't make it to get a full level 2 charge yet this week but planning to top it off today at the grocery store to see if I can identify or eliminate my cable as the issue. If I don't get 100% on the L2 charger then I think I am going to start a case with Chrysler before taking it into the dealer.
Hi, I'm new to posting here but have been browsing the forums since we were looking to purchase. We bought a 2020 Hybrid 35th anniversary package in April. We already have a hybrid Highlander so I'm used to driving with a light foot for efficiency. We live in town and drive mostly short trips, rarely on the interstate. I have a couple questions if anyone has feedback.

1) When fully charged, the battery never says 100%. It usually says 96% or 93%, with a range of anywhere from 28 to 34. Is it supposed to ever say 100%? It can say plugged in, charging complete and I turn it in immediately and it is still never 100%.

2). Over the last month I've seen my actual electric range drop drastically, from 30-32 to about 22-24. The weather hasn't changed so the AC usage is similar. I had the dealer test the battery when we took it in for the recall a couple weeks ago and they said it looked fine but to keep a log, so that's what I'm be been doing. Today my charge got me 22 miles before it hit zero, no highway. I've read here performance can vary greatly but such a drastic drop in range on a five month old vehicle is disappointing. Wondering if this is normal for others?

Thanks in advance!
Thanks all for the feedback. The level 2 charger also stopped at 96%. Made an appointment to take it in next week.
 

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Well, yeah, but that problem would exist needing to add any new 240 appliance. So, look at it this way, instead, add a hot tub and then say that was the reason for doing the pre-requisite work. Then the L2 is still just $500 :). If you do this, consider running a new sub-panel to the garage and run the L2 plug from that. Much better for future options and a better use of similar labor costs.

I use San Diego Gas and Electric. They advertise lower electricity rates for EV and PHEV owners, but, unless you use a separate meter for charging the cars, its only a slight rate reduction during super off peak hours. A second meter is probably expensive, but it is something I would consider if I needed a sub-panel. Therefore, be sure to check with your power company to find out about their EV rate schedules before you start your installation.

I have a newer home and the building code required that the house service be large enough to accomodate a level 2 charger even though none was installed. Code even required conduit run from the subpanel to the wall in the garage. However, there is no wire inside the conduit and no outlet in the garage. It seems to me that running the conduit was pretty much the same labor cost as running the wire; what a waste. I wish they had just provided the 240v outlet!
 

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I have a newer home and the building code required that the house service be large enough to accomodate a level 2 charger even though none was installed. Code even required conduit run from the subpanel to the wall in the garage. However, there is no wire inside the conduit and no outlet in the garage. It seems to me that running the conduit was pretty much the same labor cost as running the wire; what a waste. I wish they had just provided the 240v outlet!
The biggest expense would be the work to run the conduit and fix any walls that might be damages while running that conduit. Just fishing a line through that conduit would not cost a lot of money for the labour, compared to having to do the whole job as a retrofit.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Hi, I'm new to posting here but have been browsing the forums since we were looking to purchase. We bought a 2020 Hybrid 35th anniversary package in April. We already have a hybrid Highlander so I'm used to driving with a light foot for efficiency. We live in town and drive mostly short trips, rarely on the interstate. I have a couple questions if anyone has feedback.

1) When fully charged, the battery never says 100%. It usually says 96% or 93%, with a range of anywhere from 28 to 34. Is it supposed to ever say 100%? It can say plugged in, charging complete and I turn it in immediately and it is still never 100%.

2). Over the last month I've seen my actual electric range drop drastically, from 30-32 to about 22-24. The weather hasn't changed so the AC usage is similar. I had the dealer test the battery when we took it in for the recall a couple weeks ago and they said it looked fine but to keep a log, so that's what I'm be been doing. Today my charge got me 22 miles before it hit zero, no highway. I've read here performance can vary greatly but such a drastic drop in range on a five month old vehicle is disappointing. Wondering if this is normal for others?

Thanks in advance!
Update...took it in and they said the battery is indeed taking a full charge but the software isn't recognizing it, so they have opened a case with the Chrysler engineers. They said a software update is coming but don't have all the details yet.
 
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