[rscott0]

[UPDATE: It seems that the gas engine will turn on [1] when it is below 40 degrees F and the climate control is on (regardless of fan setting), [2] after a certain number of weeks(?) to lubricate the engine, [3] after a certain number of months(?) to get rid of stale gas, [4] when accelerating quickly, [5] and of course, when the battery runs out.

For #1, you can avoid using gas due to cold weather if you do NOT have climate control on. But, if it is below 40F, the second you turn on the climate control (including the defog), the gas engine will turn on. That is true regardless of the fan setting. We went through 1/2 tank of gas in a month this winter that appears to have JUST been from cold weather, as my wife was using heat based on some bogus advice here about fan speed. The gas engine will turn off and on occasionally, presumably to keep the engine warm.]


Hi,


When I first heard about the PacHy, it seemed to fill an empty space in the marketplace: a not-small car that could be powered mostly on electricity.


But now that I am seriously looking at getting one, the actual mechanics of not using gas seems very vague. When I had a Volt, they were clear when gas would be used if battery power was available: [1] when it is "too cold", [2] after 6 weeks of not using the ICE to maintain the engine, and [3] if the gas in the tank hasn't been used in a year. #1 was the contention point (although someone found that pre-heating the car for 10 minutes twice would minimize the gas usage when it was too cold out).



With the PacHy, the information seems limited. Obviously it will use the ICE if there is no battery power left. I've heard it comes on when it is cold -- but how cold? Some people say that when it is cold, the ICE only comes on if the heater is turned on -- is that really true? If so, can pre-heating the car be used?


It sounds like the "refresh mode" in the PacHy combines #2/#3 for the Volt. Is there data about how often the "lubrication" mode occurs, and how much gas it typically uses? Is there data about how often the "stale gas" refresh mode occurs (the manual says it stays that way until the "low gas" warning comes on, or new gas is added to the tank)?


I have also read that going over about 80MPH will turn on the ICE, and that accelerating too hard will turn on the ICE.
-Scott

 

[dulinor]

I haven’t noticed a hard line like 80 mph but if we go on the highway or otherwise drive “hard” we will end up using a bit of the engine, regardless of battery status. The engine does come on briefly during idle in cold weather (we generally have the heat on) but it’s honestly not been much of a problem.

 

[Shniest]

Just from my limited experience in my 2019 I 've been trying to figure out the logistics of this as well. What i can tell you is somewhat accurate to what you mention.

1) If i remote start my car and the temperature is near or below zero Celsius it will always remote start with the ICE.
2) If it's generally cold out, again near zero Celsius, the ICE will run briefly at the beginning of the trip for a few minutes.
3) If it's below zero Celsius I notice from time to time the engine will kick in very briefly during the commute (my assumption is its keeping the engine warm in case it needs to switch over and its not a frozen engine)
4) I notice if i aggressively accelerate (or pedal to the metal as they say?) the ICE seems to kick in for a minute.

I'm not sure about the over 80mph piece... that's almost 130km/h here and we don't have any highways that high.
Where I live it doesn't normally get that cold so come January thats the best I can give you from my experience.

 

[fuelscience]

Hi,
With the PacHy, the information seems limited. Obviously it will use the ICE if there is no battery power left. I've heard it comes on when it is cold -- but how cold? Some people say that when it is cold, the ICE only comes on if the heater is turned on -- is that really true? If so, can pre-heating the car be used?
-Scott

For my PacHy (2018 Limited), the ICE comes on when the outside temperature as read on the dash drops to 32F. I keep the car in a garage, so this is usually a few minutes after I leave the garage. The ICE stays on until the water temperature reaches 168-169F and then it turns off. When the water temperature drops below 120F or so, the ICE turns on again.

 

[GregGritton]

If you use the heat than the temperature the engine comes on at is somewhat higher. I believe from others posts that it will come on up to about 40F. It will go off once the cabin has warmed.

 

[ScorpyMjolnir]

Just from my limited experience in my 2019 I 've been trying to figure out the logistics of this as well. What i can tell you is somewhat accurate to what you mention.

1) If i remote start my car and the temperature is near or below zero Celsius it will always remote start with the ICE.
2) If it's generally cold out, again near zero Celsius, the ICE will run briefly at the beginning of the trip for a few minutes.
3) If it's below zero Celsius I notice from time to time the engine will kick in very briefly during the commute (my assumption is its keeping the engine warm in case it needs to switch over and its not a frozen engine)
4) I notice if i aggressively accelerate (or pedal to the metal as they say?) the ICE seems to kick in for a minute.

I'm not sure about the over 80mph piece... that's almost 130km/h here and we don't have any highways that high.
Where I live it doesn't normally get that cold so come January thats the best I can give you from my experience.

You are pretty much spot on. I have a 2017 with 23k miles, and am in my second winter with the van.

1 & 2) The key here is it will only run as much as needed to warm the van and batteries. Unless it is VERY cold, like below 0 Farenheit, it will shut off after a few minutes and run electric only with the ICE kicking on to supplement periodically.
3) Same, I've also had the engine kick on during hard braking events. I don't know why this would be.
4) Indeed

 

[1964Plymouth]

PacHy is a true hybrid, not an electric car with an on board gasoline powered battery charger like your Volt. The engine is an integral part of the power train and is not intended to be idle for long periods of time. The PacHy continuously variable transmission is a single set planetary system. The engine connects to the planet carrier, the big electric motor to the ring gear (outputs to final drive), and the small motor to the sun gear. The small motor controls the speed of the sun gear when the engine is running so as to vary the gear ratio.

If you want an electric car, this aint it.

 

[fjungman]

100% of the time, 80MPH will trigger the ICE to run and stay on, as long as you are over 80mph. It has a small delay before kicking on at 80mph.
Also, once you use the engine, for any reason, during a trip, it will run randomly and for no reason whatsoever, until you shut the car off. I will (though don't try this yourself) put it in park and shut my car off at stoplights, open the door, close the door and start it back up. This gets it to run on pure electric again.

I'm in SoCal, so I have not seen the cold weather behavior, but I expect it would be similar to the Volt, as it is a bunch of LiPo cells that need heat to perform.

 

[Danmcg]

Over the past week or so for me I have noticed that I can keep the engine off if I don’t use the climate controls. I just use the seat heater and steering wheel and the engine won’t start as long as there is battery. Weather here in Chicago is pretty dang cold right now also. I don’t think I have seen a morning above 32F/0C at least at 8 am when I have gone out to the car. Some mornings so far it has been in the low to mid teens. It is outside also so no extra boost from attached garage or anything like that. Charged outside overnight. When the windows fog up I turn on the heat/AC fora few mins to let it defrost, but if I don’t do that the ICE stays off the whole time. Perhaps it would kick on anyway if I didn’t defrost the windows?

 

[stop-eject]

https://www.pacificaforums.com/foru...why-when-engine-runs-winter-2.html#post544147

 

[rscott0]

As a follow-up: I did go ahead with the purchase. Very, very happy. The PacHy is the best electric car nobody heard of. Over 90% of my miles have been electric.


I confirmed that under around 40 degrees if the heat is on, the engine will turn on, as others have said. The other time the engine has turned on (aside from running out of battery power) is a couple of times while accelerating hard from a stop. I really don't like that (make it a configuration option!), but can easily live with it. FWIW, for me the engine seems to run for roughly half a mile or so after the acceleration (it could be based on time, not miles, and/or other factors).



During February, there were many, many sub-40 days (I'm in New England), and yet managed to keep the gas usage down to a minimum. Roughly 1,000 miles, with about 60 of those driven in gas (and I'd guess ~20-30 of those miles were after the battery got to 0%). So while the gas usage could be reduced with better software (e.g. option determine at what temp the gas engine comes on if the heat is on, and whether the gas engine comes on during heavy acceleration), it can be quite competitive with plug-in hybrids like the Volt.

 

[Fmjammo]

Keep the HVAC fan at level 4 and below will keep ICE off as long as you still have battery power left.

 

[Car Dr.]

I live in Phoenix AZ and own a 18 PacHy. I really can't comment on cold weather results. However, regarding speed demand, the ICE does operate at 80+ MPH regardless of battery charge. When accelerating, the PacHy has a gauge on the dash for power output (0 to 100%). I have noticed that anything over 50% the ICE will turn on for additional assist. Just my findings after ownership.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[rscott0]

Keep the HVAC fan at level 4 and below will keep ICE off as long as you still have battery power left.

Just as an FYI, this may work for some, but not me. I tried this on a cold day, and the ICE came on within about 30 seconds. It may not have run as long as it otherwise might (I'm not sure), but it did come on and use a fair bit of gas.

What amazes me is that a fairly simple software update could reduce gas usage significantly. If having the gas engine run under 40 degrees provides a benefit (e.g. a more reliable car, longer battery life, or better perceived comfort), Chrysler should let us know. Even then, battery-only cars manage fine without a gas engine running in cold weather.

 

[stop-eject]

PacHy has a large cabin and small battery. Its resistive heater isn't efficient. This is why it relies on the engine for supplemental heating.

 

[CANADAHYBRIDGUY]

The transmission is EVT and not a CVT , people might to do some research on this vehicle instead of just assuming . There are a few good articles on the net and there are some that state obscure particulars . Heck, there’s even people on here that assume things instead of actually knowing and spew incorrect data . Happy holidays and motoring .

 

[rscott0]

PacHy has a large cabin and small battery. Its resistive heater isn't efficient. This is why it relies on the engine for supplemental heating.

But that doesn't seem to be why Chrysler is doing this (and if it is Chrysler needs to set the rules, e.g. "under 40 degrees and the ICE turns on with any heat request" -- we're still just guessing what the rules are).

I started a drive with the heat on (fan on 3), with an outdoor temp of 30 degrees, and the ICE came on. I don't want gas being used, so I shut off the heat. If the gas engine doesn't immediately shut off, it is 0% efficient from the second I turn off the heat. That is much worse than the efficiency of resistive heat.

 

[rscott0]

The transmission is EVT and not a CVT , people might to do some research on this vehicle instead of just assuming . There are a few good articles on the net and there are some that state obscure particulars . Heck, there’s even people on here that assume things instead of actually knowing and spew incorrect data . Happy holidays and motoring .

I think you flamed in the wrong thread -- there were no mentions of EVT or CVT here. If you did mean to post in this thread, please provide some context.

 

[CANADAHYBRIDGUY]

Here you go ...

 

[lutorm]

Here you go ...

Regardless of the use of the term "continuously variable", that is an accurate description of the hybrid transmission design, though. (Except that as far as I know there's nothing saying the ICE has to be used, the powertrain operates just fine without it. The cabin heat does not, as described is this thread, but that's a totally different issue.)

I assume the issue is that obtaining cabin heat using the electric coolant heater alone either won't provide enough heat in cold weather or will run the battery down very quickly such that the designers judged it a better idea to just run the ICE. Since there's no downside to just burning all the battery if you're going to turn the ICE on anyway, I assume it's the former. Anyone know the wattage on the coolant heater?