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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just bought a new 2021 Pachy end of Sept. I also own a 2018 Prius Prime so when I drove the Pachy I was surprised there was no way to manually choose gas or electric drive modes...wasn't a deal breaker, but got me thinking how could this be fixed and made better with minimal effort on Chrysler's part.

I wrote to Chrysler with my idea, to write a new rule into the PCM software (that could be flashed at the dealership) where any part throttle condition above 59 mph would force it into gas mode. I outlined the advantages of this:
1. Preserves battery capacity to augment power for passing & hill climbing
2. Uses gas mode in it's most efficient state, top gear cruising
3. Preserves battery for terminal urban/Suburban, non-hwy speed driving (highest electric efficiency conditions)
4. Still allows some all-electric hwy speed driving (<60mph)

Attached is the response from Chrysler...apparently they aren't interested in customer feedback for product improvement. Very disappointing.
 

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where any part throttle condition above 59 mph would force it into gas mode . I outlined the advantages of this:
1. Preserves battery capacity to augment power for passing & hill climbing
2. Uses gas mode in it's most efficient state, top gear cruising
3. Preserves battery for terminal urban/Suburban, non-hwy speed driving (highest electric efficiency conditions)
4. Still allows some all-electric hwy speed driving (<60mph)
I would not like this at all. I want to avoid using gas as much as possible in a plug in hybrid. I also had a Prius Prime before and hardly used the battery hold button.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I want to avoid using gas as well, but with limited all electric range, it's important to maximize the advantages of both modes of propulsion. Once the battery is exhausted, using gas mode in a urban setting is going to use more fuel than if it had been engaged while on the hwy. This is a solution that gives drivers the option based on engagement at a point where electric drive becomes less efficient...just drive below 60mph to stay all electric
 

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Just bought a new 2021 Pachy end of Sept. I also own a 2018 Prius Prime so when I drove the Pachy I was surprised there was no way to manually choose gas or electric drive modes...wasn't a deal breaker, but got me thinking how could this be fixed and made better with minimal effort on Chrysler's part.

I wrote to Chrysler with my idea, to write a new rule into the PCM software (that could be flashed at the dealership) where any part throttle condition above 59 mph would force it into gas mode. I outlined the advantages of this:
1. Preserves battery capacity to augment power for passing & hill climbing
2. Uses gas mode in it's most efficient state, top gear cruising
3. Preserves battery for terminal urban/Suburban, non-hwy speed driving (highest electric efficiency conditions)
4. Still allows some all-electric hwy speed driving (<60mph)

Attached is the response from Chrysler...apparently they aren't interested in customer feedback for product improvement. Very disappointing.
Welcome to the forum. And welcome to the real world. No company, be it Stellatis or Campbell's Soup, can accept unsolicited suggestions. It puts them in a bad legal position. If they saw your suggestion, and then make a similar change, you could sue them.
 

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This is a solution that gives drivers the option based on engagement at a point where electric drive becomes less efficient...just drive below 60mph to stay all electric
That's hard to do when the speed limit is 70 and people are driving 80.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Welcome to the forum. And welcome to the real world. No company, be it Stellatis or Campbell's Soup, can accept unsolicited suggestions. It puts them in a bad legal position. If they saw your suggestion, and then make a similar change, you could sue them.
That's what waivers are for...any company can ask a contributor of an idea to waive any rights or liability to the idea. Elon Musk takes ideas from his Twitter followers...wonder why Tesla is on top of the EV industry, they don't discard ideas for product improvement
 

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While I understand and agree with Chrysler response as to avoid legal trouble, the real issue/problem here is that other than Tesla, any car manufacturer will not add a new (non announced) feature to an existing vehicle.

As technology advances, we are getting used to see new features added to our current devices (phones/computers/etc.) and in a way starting to expect the same from car manufacturers. It can really upset people seeing that a new model includes a new feature in the infotainment screen that could easily be added to their older vehicle, but the manufacturer decides not to.

I know adding something is not free, there has to be testing and always a budget to handle any bricked upgrades that will ultimately happen. But customers are starting to expect it, Ford already announced they will backport new features to their infotainment systems starting with the electric F150 and Mustang.

And please do not get me started with the whole dealership clown show... They really need to reinvent themselves or they will ultimately lose the war (like Kodak and multiple other companies once leaders)
 

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While I understand and agree with Chrysler response as to avoid legal trouble, the real issue/problem here is that other than Tesla, any car manufacturer will not add a new (non announced) feature to an existing vehicle.

As technology advances, we are getting used to see new features added to our current devices (phones/computers/etc.) and in a way starting to expect the same from car manufacturers. It can really upset people seeing that a new model includes a new feature in the infotainment screen that could easily be added to their older vehicle, but the manufacturer decides not to.

I know adding something is not free, there has to be testing and always a budget to handle any bricked upgrades that will ultimately happen. But customers are starting to expect it, Ford already announced they will backport new features to their infotainment systems starting with the electric F150 and Mustang.

And please do not get me started with the whole dealership clown show... They really need to reinvent themselves or they will ultimately lose the war (like Kodak and multiple other companies once leaders)
Funny how Ford had the over the air update for the Mach e but when some Australian Mach e were unprovable they had to go to the dealer for the update , hmmm, wonder what happened to over the air updates as they mentioned .
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
While I understand and agree with Chrysler response as to avoid legal trouble, the real issue/problem here is that other than Tesla, any car manufacturer will not add a new (non announced) feature to an existing vehicle.

As technology advances, we are getting used to see new features added to our current devices (phones/computers/etc.) and in a way starting to expect the same from car manufacturers. It can really upset people seeing that a new model includes a new feature in the infotainment screen that could easily be added to their older vehicle, but the manufacturer decides not to.

I know adding something is not free, there has to be testing and always a budget to handle any bricked upgrades that will ultimately happen. But customers are starting to expect it, Ford already announced they will backport new features to their infotainment systems starting with the electric F150 and Mustang.

And please do not get me started with the whole dealership clown show... They really need to reinvent themselves or they will ultimately lose the war (like Kodak and multiple other companies once leaders)
I agree with you, and unfortunately the automotive industry seems to be one of the most resistant industries to keeping up with technology.
As the cost of new cars increases, customers will come to expect more in terms of software support and development for at least 5-10 years, and with capabilities being more "software defined" manufacturers should be constantly developing updates and using the existing fleet of vehicles to push the limits of the hardware so they know what hardware requirements they'll need for the next major redesign.

The bottom line is these manufacturers can't afford to be slow dinosaurs anymore and they need mechanisms in place to take in new ideas, solicited or unsolicited, I'm interested in continuous product improvement (Chrysler ever heard of Sigma Six?).
 

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I agree with you, and unfortunately the automotive industry seems to be one of the most resistant industries to keeping up with technology.
As the cost of new cars increases, customers will come to expect more in terms of software support and development for at least 5-10 years, and with capabilities being more "software defined" manufacturers should be constantly developing updates and using the existing fleet of vehicles to push the limits of the hardware so they know what hardware requirements they'll need for the next major redesign.

The bottom line is these manufacturers can't afford to be slow dinosaurs anymore and they need mechanisms in place to take in new ideas, solicited or unsolicited, I'm interested in continuous product improvement (Chrysler ever heard of Sigma Six?).
Sigma six isn’t relative to what’s transpiring today in terms or manufacturing. There are part shortages , logistic problems , new design and product is constantly being evaluated and resigned to new dates . The industry in a while is in transition but is also in a form in the road . Sigma six is nothing more that constantly evaluating and bettering what you have , the problem is that business cases for any new product has to meet certain requirements to be attainable . So yes sigma six has always been apart of the formula for product evolvement . But just because you see it as a plus doesn’t mean that it works for the requirements of that business model . Happy motoring
 

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I agree with you, and unfortunately the automotive industry seems to be one of the most resistant industries to keeping up with technology.
As the cost of new cars increases, customers will come to expect more in terms of software support and development for at least 5-10 years, and with capabilities being more "software defined" manufacturers should be constantly developing updates and using the existing fleet of vehicles to push the limits of the hardware so they know what hardware requirements they'll need for the next major redesign.

The bottom line is these manufacturers can't afford to be slow dinosaurs anymore and they need mechanisms in place to take in new ideas, solicited or unsolicited, I'm interested in continuous product improvement (Chrysler ever heard of Sigma Six?).
I don't agree that the automotive industry is one of the most resistant to keeping up with technology. Think about how much vehicles have changed in the last few years with regards to infotainment systems and driver assist functions such as lane keeping, auto braking, adaptive cruise, parallel parking, etc.. There is also new technology in engine and transmission controls. I typically keep my vehicles for 10 years but am starting to think I need to shorten the cycle to stay somewhat up to date with technology changes.

I understand you think you have a great idea and the manufacturer should just run with it. Their unwillingness to do so does not mean they are not interested in customer feedback. Your idea included very specific implementation details. Chrysler thanked you but said they can not accept it because of contractual obligations. That is not unusual.
Your feedback would have had more impact if it was more generic such as "I would like the option of forcing the van into gas only mode. This will allow the driver to optimize use of either battery or gas engine for the specific driving environment"
I don't like the current approach of battery first until depleted then gas. It's dumb. But I would not want control to be based on speed. Just give me a button on the screen to pick the drive mode I want.

I'm certain Chrysler has not heard of Sigma Six but I'm sure they have heard of Six Sigma and use its principles in both design and manufacturing.
 

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Everybody thinks they have a great idea...bottom line if it were such a great idea the engineers who developed the drivetrain would have thought of it.
 

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Just bought a new 2021 Pachy end of Sept. I also own a 2018 Prius Prime so when I drove the Pachy I was surprised there was no way to manually choose gas or electric drive modes...wasn't a deal breaker, but got me thinking how could this be fixed and made better with minimal effort on Chrysler's part.

I wrote to Chrysler with my idea, to write a new rule into the PCM software (that could be flashed at the dealership) where any part throttle condition above 59 mph would force it into gas mode. I outlined the advantages of this:
1. Preserves battery capacity to augment power for passing & hill climbing
2. Uses gas mode in it's most efficient state, top gear cruising
3. Preserves battery for terminal urban/Suburban, non-hwy speed driving (highest electric efficiency conditions)
4. Still allows some all-electric hwy speed driving (<60mph)

Attached is the response from Chrysler...apparently they aren't interested in customer feedback for product improvement. Very disappointing.
Compare this with the Chevy Volt. GM, of all companies, was very concerned with how the Volt would be accepted and were keenly aware of any web discussions about it. They learned, very quickly, that the lack of the ICE/EV-mode toggle was number one on the list of things owners wanted to see on future Volts. To their credit, two years later, it was on the Volt as a menu option.

To be fair, the toggle 'sort of' already existed on the Volt from the very beginning as what was called 'Mountain Mode' where it was possible to save the battery for those times when the most power from both EV and ICE would be needed, i.e., climbing a pronounced incline like a steep mountain. Thus, it took very little effort for the Volt engineers to add a similar 'save mode'.

Regardless, it wouldn't have taken much effort for FCA to have learned this 'if' they had done the proper level of research. As mentioned, a dedicated dashboard switch for this is on the new Wrangler 4xe. OTOH, the idea of it on that vehicle has more to do with being 'green' and trying not to disturb the environment when off-roading by saving the battery for such times, rather than any thoughts of highway efficiency.

FCA's claim is that they omitted the toggle because they wanted the PacHy to "be as simple as possible" and actually try to say that its omission was by design and a 'feature'. Frankly, I'm quite skeptical of that argument and think it was more of a case they simply screwed-up, don't want to admit it, and don't want to go through the process to rectify it, even as simple and easy as it would seem to be.
 

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In the past I have also thought such a feature would be nice. But how high of a
Compare this with the Chevy Volt. GM, of all companies, was very concerned with how the Volt would be accepted and were keenly aware of any web discussions about it. They learned, very quickly, that the lack of the ICE/EV-mode toggle was number one on the list of things owners wanted to see on future Volts. To their credit, two years later, it was on the Volt as a menu option.
Likely covered by a patent or copyright. (yes copyright, because it has to deal with computer code).

I have thought the same control would be nice. But how do you implement it? By speed as suggested? Or when it is engaged, the engine tries to charge the battery at full capacity? That would suck 40 or more HP from the engine, which would take more gas.

I think ( not necessarily agree) that Chrylsers idea is to get the most out of the battery before using gas. giving the operator the option, defeats that idea.
 

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Well... It works for the transmissions. Maybe don't use a full on/off switch. FCA and now maybe Stellantis like using dials. A dial with a percentage of load being controlled between engine and electro-mode. A default mode as it currently is. A manual ¼, ½, ¾, or full on setting if you want a bit more power for heat/AC. An all gas -Charge on the Go- mode. Full Elec-Silence mode with the new Uconnect Traffic-Jam Crawl sensors. Its a hybrid of the adapt-cruise and pedestrian warning and braking system. The JEEP®™ Bumper Glue©™ Mode on the 4Xe™.
 

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Everybody thinks they have a great idea...bottom line if it were such a great idea the engineers who developed the drivetrain would have thought of it.
Well maybe the engineers thought of it, but managers didn't approve the design or idea.

That's part of the problem, during design engineers need to consider the rules/contracts with dealerships which demand warranty work and upgrades to be done by them (and paid by the manufacturer) so OTA upgrades are usually frowned upon.

Same with adding features, as lot of manufacturers see the opportunity to add it to next year model to promote sales of newer models. Problem is we are keeping our cars longer now, so that's not really helping.

I would definitely love some buttons in the Hybrid app inside the infotainment screen where you could select to force electric as much as possible (unless you floor it for security reasons), configure the amount of regenerative force you want, as well as set battery % where to force hybrid operation (go from 0% to 80% so you could use hybrid in freeway and save battery for later)

I understand 2022 will actually show when max regenerative takes place, clearly something that could be backported to 2021, but highly doubt (and would even bet) we will see anything.
 

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Well maybe the engineers thought of it, but managers didn't approve the design or idea.

That's part of the problem, during design engineers need to consider the rules/contracts with dealerships which demand warranty work and upgrades to be done by them (and paid by the manufacturer) so OTA upgrades are usually frowned upon.

Same with adding features, as lot of manufacturers see the opportunity to add it to next year model to promote sales of newer models. Problem is we are keeping our cars longer now, so that's not really helping.

I would definitely love some buttons in the Hybrid app inside the infotainment screen where you could select to force electric as much as possible (unless you floor it for security reasons), configure the amount of regenerative force you want, as well as set battery % where to force hybrid operation (go from 0% to 80% so you could use hybrid in freeway and save battery for later)

I understand 2022 will actually show when max regenerative takes place, clearly something that could be backported to 2021, but highly doubt (and would even bet) we will see anything.
That's the thing about the ICE/EV toggle. It's not just an omission; it's a glaring omission, like it was a conscious thing done by someone in FCA's chain of command to 'not' include it.

A case in point about offering the ability to individualize settings is Tesla. I've never personally driven one but, from what I understand, just about anything you'd like to set-up to one's own preference is possible. Clearly, FCA was not interested in having that ability with the PacHy, and they use the excuse of "we wanted to keep it simple" to justify it.

To that end, why did they offer the ability to change 'anything'. That would have been the most simple of all, wouldn't it?
 
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