[thrustbucket]

I just bought a 2018 Pacifica Limited with 98,000 miles on it. Knowing that 100k miles was the warranty cut off for the high voltage battery,

I thought I had read somewhere (maybe here?) that the only way to see the actual life/capacity of the battery is at a dealer. The guy told me in two years he has never been asked that and the only thing he can see is error codes and if the battery is bad or good. He said it's good. I'm not thrilled to have paid for an hour of labor to tell me what I already know.

I was hoping to see how close I was to that 70% for obvious reasons. Can anyone here tell me if I am wrong or the dealer is wrong? If the dealer is wrong, how can I explain to him how to do his job and find the capacity/life left on the battery?

 

[kjartan]

The dealer should be able to view this information. I just went to a garage here in Iceland where they could see the state of health for the HV battery using the Chrysler diagnostics software. The dealer should be able to see an upper and lower limit for the SoH.

 

[alphawolff]

I don't think the factory scan tool can view the HV state of health. At least, at no point in my diagnostic process for replacing them was it ever mentioned.

 

[PacDave]

I don't think the factory scan tool can view the HV state of health. At least, at no point in my diagnostic process for replacing them was it ever mentioned.

Somebody’s gotta be able to do it. Otherwise the warranty on the HV battery is meaningless.

 

[alphawolff]

Somebody’s gotta be able to do it. Otherwise the warranty on the HV battery is meaningless.

They throw DTCs when their charge capacity is degraded. It's not like tesla where the charge capacity is put front and center since it's a BEV. Being a hybrid the gas engine can always be called upon to deal with any minor degradation. I don't even think there's a spec for battery life in our service information

 

[kjartan]

I don't think the factory scan tool can view the HV state of health. At least, at no point in my diagnostic process for replacing them was it ever mentioned.

You can think what you want I saw this yesterday in the factory scan tool. That was in a version that doesn't have access to everything the dealership can access. The the battery in my car had a current capacity of 80% and maximum capacity of 88%.

 

[SKPacHy]

Somebody’s gotta be able to do it. Otherwise the warranty on the HV battery is meaningless.

Not necessarily. The warranty isn’t there to cover degradation necessarily. If the battery got to its end-of-life state within the warranty period you’d probably get a new one. But thats pretty unlikely in normal usage. Most people are probably going to hit the mileage limit on the battery first, and these batteries can do that pretty easily. As of 2020, GM hadn’t replaced a single Volt battery due to end-of-life. And it came out in 2011.

 

[thrustbucket]

You can think what you want I saw this yesterday in the factory scan tool. That was in a version that doesn't have access to everything the dealership can access. The the battery in my car had a current capacity of 80% and maximum capacity of 88%.

Can you describe where and how in the scan tool you find that? Does this have to be a Chrysler specific scan tool?

Not necessarily. The warranty isn’t there to cover degradation necessarily. If the battery got to its end-of-life state within the warranty period you’d probably get a new one. But thats pretty unlikely in normal usage. Most people are probably going to hit the mileage limit on the battery first, and these batteries can do that pretty easily. As of 2020, GM hadn’t replaced a single Volt battery due to end-of-life. And it came out in 2011.

So are you saying that Chrysler pretty much never replaces batteries due to under 70% capacity within the warranty period? I am trying to decide if it's worth it to take my van back to the dealer and explain where to read that in the scan tool (if I can find out) to try and see if it's below 70%. But if they won't replace it unless the car itself says the battery is bad, then I guess it's pointless.

 

[SKPacHy]

Can you describe where and how in the scan tool you find that? Does this have to be a Chrysler specific scan tool?



So are you saying that Chrysler pretty much never replaces batteries due to under 70% capacity within the warranty period? I am trying to decide if it's worth it to take my van back to the dealer and explain where to read that in the scan tool (if I can find out) to try and see if it's below 70%. But if they won't replace it unless the car itself says the battery is bad, then I guess it's pointless.

Yes that’s correct, at least in the Volt. These batteries are highly reliable. Replacements are rare and due to damage or manufacturing defect. Replacements due to degradation from use have probably not happened at all, especially in a fleet only 5 years old. Batteries like these that are thermally managed just aren’t having extreme degradation issues. There are Teslas out there with 400,000 miles and a battery pack still over 80% SOH. The one exception in the BEV space would be the Nissan Leaf, but it doesn’t have a thermally managed battery. I’ve also heard of some non-plugin Prius owners replacing their batteries. But those batteries are very small Ni-Mh batteries that again aren’t thermally managed. They have a fan for cooling but that’s about it. And what often kills them is lack of maintenance on the battery fan filter. Which gets clogged and reduces airflow over the battery causing it to get too hot. Heat kills these batteries.

 

[thrustbucket]

Yes that’s correct, at least in the Volt. These batteries are highly reliable. Replacements are rare and due to damage or manufacturing defect. Replacements due to degradation from use have probably not happened at all, especially in a fleet only 5 years old. Batteries like these that are thermally managed just aren’t having extreme degradation issues. There are Teslas out there with 400,000 miles and a battery pack still over 80% SOH. The one exception in the BEV space would be the Nissan Leaf, but it doesn’t have a thermally managed battery. I’ve also heard of some non-plugin Prius owners replacing their batteries. But those batteries are very small Ni-Mh batteries that again aren’t thermally managed. They have a fan for cooling but that’s about it. And what often kills them is lack of maintenance on the battery fan filter. Which gets clogged and reduces airflow over the battery causing it to get too hot. Heat kills these batteries.

That's great info. Thank you.
Do you happen to know where I can read more about how to take care of these batteries? For example, is it bad to always plug in and top off even when not very depleated?

 

[SKPacHy]

That's great info. Thank you.
Do you happen to know where I can read more about how to take care of these batteries? For example, is it bad to always plug in and top off even when not very depleated?

No its not. There's lots of good references out there, but there's also a ton of nonsense. This van will manage the battery on its own. It can heat or cool the battery as required. Drive and plug in whenever you can. If you are parked and you can plug in, then that's always best practice. If you're going somewhere extremely hot (over 40C) or extremely cold (under -30C), then plugging in when parking for a long time is highly recommended so the van can condition the battery if needed. If you're going to the mall for a couple hours, then plugging in really isn't a big deal. If the mall has nice cheap charging then sure, but if its pricy and you can get home on whatever battery you have left, I wouldn't bother. My local mall has parking you have to pay for, but their chargers are free. So I can get back my parking cost in electrons if I'm there an hour or two. Of course plugging in at home should always be done. Or even at work if you can find a plug or convince your employer that letting you charge will save polar bears or something.

 

[kjartan]

Can you describe where and how in the scan tool you find that? Does this have to be a Chrysler specific scan tool?



So are you saying that Chrysler pretty much never replaces batteries due to under 70% capacity within the warranty period? I am trying to decide if it's worth it to take my van back to the dealer and explain where to read that in the scan tool (if I can find out) to try and see if it's below 70%. But if they won't replace it unless the car itself says the battery is bad, then I guess it's pointless.

No unfortunately I am not familiar enough with the software to guide anyone through it. But I saw the entries for my car.

 

[alphawolff]

So far I've only replaced 2 HV batteries. Both had a "precharge too long" DTC. I had to do extensive testing before chrysler would let us replace them. One vehicle had an ECH (unrelated), EAC, and charger replaced prior to authorizing the battery. Once the battery was replaced it finally started and ran and got about a mile down the road before the PIM failed and the vehicle stalled. The PIM was probably the root cause of everything but testing couldn't reveal it until a DTC popped upon stall leading us to it. Had to remove the PIM to verify the motor integrity before getting authorization on that. Car has been down nearly 2 months at this point and the PIM won't be here until the end of the month. The vehicle has been fully covered under warranty but I still feel bad for the owners.

On an unrelated note, I've got 2 ECHs that I'm doing today. Both permanently locked on a 2020 and 2021

 

[PacDave]

Not necessarily. The warranty isn’t there to cover degradation necessarily. If the battery got to its end-of-life state within the warranty period you’d probably get a new one. But thats pretty unlikely in normal usage. Most people are probably going to hit the mileage limit on the battery first, and these batteries can do that pretty easily. As of 2020, GM hadn’t replaced a single Volt battery due to end-of-life. And it came out in 2011.

Well, define “end-of-life state” and then tell me how you determine that.

 

[PacDave]

They throw DTCs when their charge capacity is degraded. It's not like tesla where the charge capacity is put front and center since it's a BEV. Being a hybrid the gas engine can always be called upon to deal with any minor degradation. I don't even think there's a spec for battery life in our service information

There’s gotta be something. If you go in to a dealer and claim that your battery is “end-of-life” and demand a replacement, there has to be a way to prove or disprove that it’s “end-of-life”. Just the fact that it “throws DTCs” means that there is a method by which the car itself can determine whether the battery has enough charge capacity. The fact that the ECU doesn’t display the status of the battery to the driver does not mean that it doesn’t know it.

 

[PacDave]

Can you describe where and how in the scan tool you find that? Does this have to be a Chrysler specific scan tool?



So are you saying that Chrysler pretty much never replaces batteries due to under 70% capacity within the warranty period? I am trying to decide if it's worth it to take my van back to the dealer and explain where to read that in the scan tool (if I can find out) to try and see if it's below 70%. But if they won't replace it unless the car itself says the battery is bad, then I guess it's pointless.

If they won’t give you any information on the health of the battery then just ask to take it for a test drive. Have them fully charge the battery. If you can drive it 33 miles before the ICE kicks in then you know the battery’s health is good.

 

[stop-eject]

@thrustbucket Look here: Battery monitoring with alfaOBD
I'm curious to see the health reading on a high mileage battery. If you have a "smart" EVSE, charge the battery from 0 to 100% and note how many kw/h it can accept.

 

[SKPacHy]

Well, define “end-of-life state” and then tell me how you determine that.

We know there is an end-of-life state because Chrysler has said so. We don’t know exactly what attributes contribute to that, but we know it exists. The van will notify the owner when the battery is at or near the end of its life, according to Chrysler. Whether it’s based on SOH or a number of different metrics, again we don’t know. As far as we know, no PacHy owner has ever seen that message, again due to the age of the fleet.

Watch this video to see a Chrysler engineer talking about the battery “end-of-life” stuff.

Chrysler Interview

 

[PacDave]

We know there is an end-of-life state because Chrysler has said so. We don’t know exactly what attributes contribute to that, but we know it exists. The van will notify the owner when the battery is at or near the end of its life, according to Chrysler. Whether it’s based on SOH or a number of different metrics, again we don’t know. As far as we know, no PacHy owner has ever seen that message, again due to the age of the fleet.

Watch this video to see a Chrysler engineer talking about the battery “end-of-life” stuff.

Chrysler Interview

My point to the original OP is this: the car “knows” full well what the status of the battery is. Surely there is a way, with the proper diagnostic tools, to divine that information. Chrysler would not design a system without that ability. Whether the dealer is smart enough to get that information or whether they even want you to know it is an entirely different matter.

 

[Karolski [PL]]

AlfaOBD with OBD bluetooth reader can do. Like so:

@stop-eject has already mentioned it above.....

I'm using AlfaOBD Demo version (15 minutes functionality every time you launch it-way enough to retrive any info) and Vgate iCar2 - 15.99$ on eBay
However, if I can do im garage such test/readings, I'm certain that dealer, right one, can do that also.