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so you want me to pay for the car without looking at it ?

or to tell the dealer that i'm definitely getting the car without actually signing anything and spending a day driving to find out he decided to increase the price by $3,000 because oops he made a mistake when we previously discussed the price ...

i'm not sure what you're suggesting ?
Carl at Criswell was great to deal with. He gave me a quote through e-mail that I couldn’t match or beat locally. I had three dealerships flat out tell me that Carl’s quote was a good deal and that I should pursue it.

On last Tuesday I put a refundable $500 deposit down to hold the car they had in inventory that I wanted. Spoke with their finance guy, Thong, for all of five minutes on Wednesday. They overnighted the purchase paperwork. I bought a plane ticket to fly to MD. My wife and I signed the papers Thursday night—actually had been the time to read and consider everything at home, without any pressure. We finalized our loan with USAA that night.

Friday I flew out and finished the deal. They aren’t taking your money or getting your loan info until you’ve seen the van. They’re very straightforward. It was an easy, thoughtful process. I’d do it again in a heartbeat.

I may never buy another car locally, if I can get a better deal with a bit of travel and time. I’m very pleased with the whole thing.

I’d urge you to get in touch with Carl. If nothing else, he can give you a quote to help you negotiate with local dealers. Carl was fine with ordering anything that I might want. It just happens that they had something in stock that worked for me. Carl and the Criswell Chrysler dealership have my highest recommendation. Everyone I worked with or spoke with there was a real delight.
 

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Cool! Picking up my Pacifica from Carl this Saturday! Factory ordered and still a couple grand below the best price I could get here in NJ! Worth the 240 mile drive to pick up with my trade-in 😄
 

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My out the door price was $48,103. I think my MSRP was $49,580. Sale price on the vehicle was about $45,200 + tax, title, and $300 MD processing fee. Those numbers are from memory.

Locally, when I could find a 2019, dealers wanted about $3k more. Very few 2019s in stock here. I was offered the same deal on a leftover 2018, but it had been on the lot a long time and doesn’t have the same features.

I tried to buy a 2018 from the Gilroy, CA dealer. What a giant waste of time that was. I couldn’t get them on the phone, let alone get them to follow up with simple things. Such an amazing contrast between them and Criswell.
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
I wouldn't buy a used car without driving it first, but why would you need to drive a brand new one? You had you test drives already, right? Ask how many miles are on the odometer to make sure that it had no extensive test drive history and you'll be good. I've never test driven the new cars I bought. Most of them were factory ordered, and one on the lot I bought out of state.

As for the $3000 price "mistake", franchised new car dealers are not that sleazy anymore. They will pressure you to buy "protection", "nitrogen fill" and so on, but you can (and should) say no to everything.
not a test drive but i like to see the car in person to get a feel for it. one time i was getting a VW Passat and i looked at one with beautiful brushed aluminum trim and the basterd dealer said my car would have trim that looks the same but when the car actually arrived it was a very ugly silver plastic trim and for 3 years of lease i kept telling myself every day i would never make the same mistake again ...

the car i have now ( 2018 Camry ) is actually the opposite - there are just the right all-weather mats everywhere and splash guards and protective pieces on the doors and everything is just perfect - but that's because i picked that car out on the lot unlike the Passat which was ordered sight unseen. I did not specify any options on the Camry at all - i got it just the way it already was on the parking lot - but it happened to be exactly right. Of course i went through entire Brooklyn, Queens and Long island and about 30 Camry Hybrid XLEs to get one that was right but it's better than kicking yourself for 3 years.

i was kicking myself with a 2015 C300 mercedes too - in that case it was a $40,000 car without backup camera ! ! ! it was also a test drive car ( which i actually test drove ) but in that case i got absurd deal and they said i was only getting the deal if i took that particular car so i did but i kept questioning that move for 3 years as well.

i mean would you order a bride out of a catalog ? that's how i feel about it. i want to feel comfortable about the decision.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Carl at Criswell was great to deal with. He gave me a quote through e-mail that I couldn’t match or beat locally. I had three dealerships flat out tell me that Carl’s quote was a good deal and that I should pursue it.

On last Tuesday I put a refundable $500 deposit down to hold the car they had in inventory that I wanted. Spoke with their finance guy, Thong, for all of five minutes on Wednesday. They overnighted the purchase paperwork. I bought a plane ticket to fly to MD. My wife and I signed the papers Thursday night—actually had been the time to read and consider everything at home, without any pressure. We finalized our loan with USAA that night.

Friday I flew out and finished the deal. They aren’t taking your money or getting your loan info until you’ve seen the van. They’re very straightforward. It was an easy, thoughtful process. I’d do it again in a heartbeat.

I may never buy another car locally, if I can get a better deal with a bit of travel and time. I’m very pleased with the whole thing.

I’d urge you to get in touch with Carl. If nothing else, he can give you a quote to help you negotiate with local dealers. Carl was fine with ordering anything that I might want. It just happens that they had something in stock that worked for me. Carl and the Criswell Chrysler dealership have my highest recommendation. Everyone I worked with or spoke with there was a real delight.
NO.
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
there seems to be just one Pacifica Hybrid in all of USA with the color combination i like:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=508056681&zip=11235&referrer=/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=11235&extColorsSimple=GRAY&startYear=2019&incremental=all&modelCodeList=PACIFICA&makeCodeList=CHRY&listingTypes=NEW&sortBy=relevance&engineCodes=HYBRD&firstRecord=0&marketExtension=on&searchRadius=0&trimCodeList=PACIFICA%7CLimited&listingTypes=NEW&startYear=2019&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=PACIFICA&makeCodeList=CHRY&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=CHRY&modelCode1=PACIFICA&clickType=listing

but the deal is unimpressive compared to those VA deals ...

this black / mocha interior looks good in pics but i haven't seen it in person ...

i actually like this color combo even more:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=508305539&zip=11235&referrer=/cars-for-sale/searchresults.xhtml?zip=11235&keywordPhrases=mocha&startYear=2019&incremental=all&modelCodeList=PACIFICA&makeCodeList=CHRY&listingTypes=NEW&sortBy=relevance&engineCodes=HYBRD&firstRecord=0&marketExtension=on&searchRadius=300&trimCodeList=PACIFICA%7CLimited&listingTypes=NEW&startYear=2019&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=PACIFICA&makeCodeList=CHRY&searchRadius=300&makeCode1=CHRY&modelCode1=PACIFICA&digitalRetail=true&clickType=listing

except that on this color the bumpers never match the rest of the body - you can even see it on pics.

but maybe i could get over this. i can just pretend it's a Tesla and they have that problem too.
 

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If you want a car with a certain colors and options combination, chances are you'll need to order it. You can still visit a couple of dealers and and see all the features you want separately. Seeing a car is not a guarantee that you'll notice everything. In fact, it is exactly opposite. In the limited time you would probably miss that PacHy has no HID headlights and is missing half of the interior lights compared to the gas version. Combing through a sales brochure and comparing the trim levels gives a better idea of what to expect. Some things- like missing rear AC in Honda- are nearly impossible to catch without driving for a while or reading the forums. Test drives are good to get the overall feeling of the car, test the seats and check some specific features. I wanted to see how the ACC and the automatic parking work, test the ICE engagement under load and play with the entertainment system. After my ordered PacHy arrived I only checked the body fit and finish.
 

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My out the door price was $48,103. I think my MSRP was $49,580. Sale price on the vehicle was about $45,200 + tax, title, and $300 MD processing fee. Those numbers are from memory.

Locally, when I could find a 2019, dealers wanted about $3k more. Very few 2019s in stock here. I was offered the same deal on a leftover 2018, but it had been on the lot a long time and doesn’t have the same features.

I tried to buy a 2018 from the Gilroy, CA dealer. What a giant waste of time that was. I couldn’t get them on the phone, let alone get them to follow up with simple things. Such an amazing contrast between them and Criswell.
Oops didn't notice where exactly in the forum I was. I am getting a gasser. but for the record: OTD about 6K under MSRP.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
If you want a car with a certain colors and options combination, chances are you'll need to order it. You can still visit a couple of dealers and and see all the features you want separately. Seeing a car is not a guarantee that you'll notice everything. In fact, it is exactly opposite. In the limited time you would probably miss that PacHy has no HID headlights and is missing half of the interior lights compared to the gas version. Combing through a sales brochure and comparing the trim levels gives a better idea of what to expect. Some things- like missing rear AC in Honda- are nearly impossible to catch without driving for a while or reading the forums. Test drives are good to get the overall feeling of the car, test the seats and check some specific features. I wanted to see how the ACC and the automatic parking work, test the ICE engagement under load and play with the entertainment system. After my ordered PacHy arrived I only checked the body fit and finish.
wouldn't ordering pretty much mean forfeiting any dealer discounts ?
 

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Sometimes you can get a better deal on a car that is sitting on the lot too long. Most likely it will have an undesirable configuration and/or many test drives.
Another factor to consider is rebates or other factory promos. They apply at the delivery. If a rebate was available when you ordered, but expired by the time of the delivery you aren't getting it. On the flip side, if a new rebate began after your order, you can and should ask to apply it to the price.
 

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As an example, we live in So. Calif. and my wife just leased a 2019 Ford Fusion PHEV and the dealer took the $7500 rebate off the top of the sticker price, along with some extra. In addition Calif. has a $1500 that she herself applies for afterwards. Most dealers in this area do the same, including Tesla. In fact, if you look at the prices for Tesla online that show their prices with the rebate factored in.

It is actually much better that way because you’ll pay sales tax on the final price, not the sticker price. Sort of like a deduction on your taxes.

That being said, I personally think all the car manufacturers jack up the sticker price on EVs and PHEVs just so they can artificially lower the final price using the Gov. rebates and then take that as a profit. Just my opinion but I’d still rather have a lower sticker and less sales tax then personally take the rebate.

Now, as far as Just taking money off the sticker, that can depend on demand, time of the month or year...many factors including location. When I got my 2017 Pac Limited not only did they take $6,000 off the top, they paid off my 2015 Honda Pilot of $23,000 - and got me the same lease payment as I had with my mid-level trim Honda.
 

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I wouldn't buy a used car without driving it first, but why would you need to drive a brand new one?
It wasn't until well after we had purchased our new Pacifica that it occurred to me that we had never taken one for a test drive. There wasn't any other options. A brake line rusted through & blew out on my 2000 Dakota. I was sitting in a parking lot but, at that point, I had enough of driving old junk. I wanted a new vehicle, a minivan, and one with all that safety stuff I saw on TV. I've owned several Chrysler products including Caravan & Voyager minivans. The Chrysler dealer is 3 miles from our home, I've bought several vehicles there, all from the same salesman. We test drove a Town & Country but they aren't made with all the safety stuff. So it was a Pacifica. I crawled around inside, looked at them on the lot several times & played endlessly with Chrysler's build your own website. But the one we bought was a dealer trade I never even saw it until I owned it. It wasn't going to be an issue & it hasn't been. We still love it more than a year later.
 

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in my experience, CA dealers have the best price on the west coast. Not sure if it's volume or CA mandates/compliance laws?
 

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I wouldn't buy a used car without driving it first, but why would you need to drive a brand new one? You had you test drives already, right? Ask how many miles are on the odometer to make sure that it had no extensive test drive history and you'll be good. I've never test driven the new cars I bought. Most of them were factory ordered, and one on the lot I bought out of state.

As for the $3000 price "mistake", franchised new car dealers are not that sleazy anymore. They will pressure you to buy "protection", "nitrogen fill" and so on, but you can (and should) say no to everything.
So....please help out here...I did not take the PacH off the lot yet...they ordered a tow package that they did not realize could not be installed (really? Yes..really)..they will now pay to ship my old car (that I was going to tow) ....they never charged me for the -now irrelevant- tow package to begin with (they “threw that in”...I’d like to throw them in..) and I go down to the dealer tomorrow....what should I have them remove? Can I still remove items? It’s not mine till I drive it off the lot yes? Or....? I realize I am in way over my head...and need help...that’s why I’m here...sorry:frown2:
 

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So....please help out here...I did not take the PacH off the lot yet...they ordered a tow package that they did not realize could not be installed (really? Yes..really)..they will now pay to ship my old car (that I was going to tow) ....they never charged me for the -now irrelevant- tow package to begin with (they “threw that in”...I’d like to throw them in..) and I go down to the dealer tomorrow....what should I have them remove? Can I still remove items? It’s not mine till I drive it off the lot yes? Or....? I realize I am in way over my head...and need help...that’s why I’m here...sorry:frown2:
This post probably should be in another thread, but I will ask a few questions in case it will help others who might be better at advising you. You might try starting a thread about canceling an order or sale so others might respond faster with suggestions.

What state are you purchasing the van in? Are you having the old car shipped to another state?

Have you signed any paperwork at the dealer? If so, then it is probably yours unless there is a way to cancel the contract since they told you that you could tow with the van and ordered the tow package that you can't use as intended.

Do you really need a tow package for your van and what would you tow? If you need to tow heavy things, then you might be ahead with a gas van instead of a hybrid. From what I've read, some people on the forum have put an aftermarket tow bar for lightweight things (bike rack, etc.) on the hybrid but risk voiding the van warranty.

Here is info on what some members have said about towing with a hybrid if you are interested.
https://www.pacificaforums.com/forum/433-2017-chrysler-pacifica-phev-hybrid-general-discussion/5209-phev-pacifica-towing.html?nojs=1#goto_threadtools
 

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As an example, we live in So. Calif. and my wife just leased a 2019 Ford Fusion PHEV and the dealer took the $7500 rebate off the top of the sticker price...

Sort of, please don't take this the wrong way, I would like to share what I know so it can benefit all of us as consumers. Keyword in your statement above is "lease". On a lease the manufacturer generally gets the $7500 tax credit, but the dealer can pass those savings on to you in the form of a dealer discount which will lower the sales price of the vehicle and thus lower the sales tax. They don't have to pass the savings to you, it's negotiable.

On a "sale" you the consumer are eligible for the tax credit. You don't get the benefit of a $7500 reduced sales price for CA sales tax purposes. In CA you pay tax on the full sales price after dealer discount but before any manufacturer rebates or tax incentives. I hate it that certain states do this (charge you sales tax for rebates you've received), but it is what it is.

In addition Calif. has a $1500 that she herself applies for afterwards ...

Correct, or increased by 2k to $3500 for folks with income below 300% of the poverty level based upon size of household, but again this shouldn't impact what you pay in sales tax on a "sale". I don't believe it would impact what you pay in sales tax on a "lease" either, especially since you are applying for the rebate after you've left the dealer and paid your sales tax.

Most dealers in this area do the same, including Tesla. In fact, if you look at the prices for Tesla online that show their prices with the rebate factored in.

I suspect Tesla shows what savings a consumer may realize in a "sale" if you qualify for the federal and state tax credits. I'll wager there is a fine print disclaimer on their website explaining that there are no guarantees you will qualify. Again, you aren't going to get a break on CA sales tax for tax credits when purchasing a vehicle. The exception is if you are doing a "lease" and then you would get the benefit of the $7500 federal credit reducing your sales price the dealer calculates sales tax on if you negotiate this with the dealer. Again I doubt you would get a sales tax break on the CA tax credit but I admit I haven't researched this portion.

It is actually much better that way because you’ll pay sales tax on the final price, not the sticker price. Sort of like a deduction on your taxes.

Agreed, but getting the $7500 CA sales tax break is only on a leased vehicle.

That being said, I personally think all the car manufacturers jack up the sticker price on EVs and PHEVs just so they can artificially lower the final price using the Gov. rebates and then take that as a profit. Just my opinion but I’d still rather have a lower sticker and less sales tax then personally take the rebate.

Yes! Anytime a government subsidy is involved in a market the seller will try and funnel as much of that subsidy in to their own pocket instead of yours. At first glance one might feel lucky to get a $7500 tax credit and think they've done great on a deal. I was just explaining this yesterday to my wife as we drove to pick up our new Pachy. In reality the dealers have taken a piece of the pie by jacking up their prices, or reducing the dealer discount they are willing to offer. The manufacturer does the same thing by increasing the MSRP that their economists have determined will be just enough to siphon off a portion of the government subsidy, while not being too expensive so that they still have willing buyers and haven't priced themselves out of the market due to competitors. FCA is in a special place with the Pachy because there are no real hybrid competitors in this price range for a vehicle this size with these mpg's. So they only have to worry about consumer demand at the MSRP they set. These vehicles were pushing 50K when they were first introduced a few years ago with no or miminal factory incentives and dealer discounts. They were playing the waiting game by pricing in a manner where they could maximize profits on a few sales, while keeping production low so as to not create a glut of vehicles and force themselves to offer rebates, or their dealers to offer discounts. Waiting for that sucker to walk in and pay full price because they had to have it. That didn't work out for them as well as they planned, because you can buy new old stock 2018's today for about 10k off. These folks at the manufacturer and dealer are smart people, that's why they are rich, but sometimes their plans don't work out perfectly. That is when a consumer can swoop in and get a deal, but don't be fooled by dealers when they say they are losing money on your deal. They are not. The dealer's profit streams have changed in the past 25 years. It used to be they would buy a vehicle from the manufacturer and sell it for MSRP which was 15-20% over their invoice price. They might give you a deal and charge less than MSRP but then they would still retain around 10% profit over invoice. Now you see invoice price is a mere few hundred dollars over MSRP. How the heck is a dealer keeping the lights on and paying staff and living in a mansion if they are only making a few hundred bucks on a deal? They aren't making a few hundred bucks. They are making much more on the back-end through manufacturer-dealer incentive programs. Great for them to do it this way because the consumer has no idea just how much the dealer is truly making on a deal, but they waive that invoice sheet around and make us think we are getting a great deal paying invoice when really we are not. There's at least a few thousand in profit for a dealer selling vehicles at invoice. I just bought one dealer discounted ~4,300 under invoice before factory rebates. I'll take odds the dealer didn't lose a penny on my deal, otherwise they would not have sold the vehicle.

Now, as far as Just taking money off the sticker, that can depend on demand, time of the month or year...many factors including location. When I got my 2017 Pac Limited not only did they take $6,000 off the top, they paid off my 2015 Honda Pilot of $23,000 - and got me the same lease payment as I had with my mid-level trim Honda.

Agreed, there are many factors at play and they are ever changing. You need to find a dealer that needs to make their quota to increase their manufacturer bonus, or wants to clear out really old inventory because, well, it's old, and perhaps other factors like manufacturer requiring them to clear the units and spiffing them for it. There can be other factors as well, like who you negotiate with (salesperson, vs sales manager vs. internet sales manager)
in my experience, CA dealers have the best price on the west coast. Not sure if it's volume or CA mandates/compliance laws?
My experience is Nevada and Arizona have better dealer discounts, but if your bringing the vehicle back to CA you will lose out on the $1500k tax credit (unless you cheat on your taxes, bad idea). Best dealer discount I could find in CA was $5500 but they would have bit me on the back end with dealer fees because they are crooks at that dealership. Best dealer discount I could find in CA and AZ is $7700. I cannot say whether the AZ NV dealers would have also loaded up the dealer fees because I didn't have the chance to meet them in person and see how they operate. In the end I settled for ~4300 in dealer discounts at a reputable dealer who didn't bite me with dealer fees, and gave me the dealer add-on's for free. No BS, just a quick clean and fair deal.
 
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