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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all,

So just like 99.9% of you (save for the odd musician and/or cat person) ... I've got a growing family and desperately need more space.

I, however, am slightly different from you guys and live in Germany with my German wife and hybrid German-American kids. Due to the strong euro against the USD it makes financial sense to purchase something in the U.S. and ship it to Germany.

My wife and I had settled on the VW Atlas 2.0t SEL due to gas mileage, its ability to hold a ton of people and comfort ... then I saw the new Pacifica Hybrid. :nerd::surprise: The pragmatist in me says "There's my next car" the millennial dad in me says "Oh God, a Ford Windstar, ehrm I mean minivan."

Gas here runs like $5.50 a gallon, so the PHEV is a massive cost savings over the 23-27 MPG Atlas. Like €3k a year in gas savings (we drive a lot).

Before I switch my AutoTrader search filters from the Atlas to the Pacifica ... I have a few questions for you guys, and hopefully a MOPAR dealer on here can answer a few of them. Due to dealer franchise contracts, I have to be less than upfront about my desires to export the vehicle so asking many of these questions at the point of sale isn't going to be a possibility.

1) The North American maps do me less than no good. How does one go about updating the maps? Is it a SD card?

2) My single largest concern is the rear turn signals, actually. In Germany a car will not be allowed on public roads for any reason (unless you're a diplomat or a member of the US or Canadian militaries) unless it has ORANGE rear blinkers. I see the Pacifica has red rear blinkers and the lens the blinker is in is also red. Is anyone @ MOPAR aware of a part number which makes the rear blinker part either clear or orange?

3) If one of the rear reverse lights was to go out, would it display an error message on the infotainment screen? In Germany, a rear fog light is required, and its normally done via swapping out the reverse light bulb on the drivers side with a red LED And setting up a separate switch for this purpose. Thoughts?

4) Given no warranty upon export and lack of parts ... is this even advisable? The advantage of the Atlas is basically all the parts except for body panels and proprietary interior bits are generic VW. Turbo eats it after a few years? They can be had everywhere inexpensively. Some obscure connector for the battery takes a dumb in the Pacifica after year three? Gotta order one out of the US and do the work myself.

I am pretty handy and as a hobby mechanic am inclined.

From what I'm reading ... avoid the 2017 and get a 2018. Thoughts?
 

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For reason number 4, I would not advise doing this.

I have a Pacifica hybrid, I love it, and it has had no problems, but even in the US there are people who get a problem and find that they have to leave their car with a dealer for weeks or months while the tech tries to figure out the problem and waits for the part to fix it.

At least on the US, customers have been getting gas Pacifica replacement cars during this waiting period while this gets figured out.

I think the hybrid system is just new and confusing for the average Chrysler technician, and the parts may not be very plentiful.

I would be worried about not being able to get things fixed if I tried to do what you are describing.



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no warranty no dice.
I would add, no dealer support no dice. Any vehicle today, including the VW Atlas, is a complex electronic machine. Lots of sensors, connectors, computers and software. Diagnosing a problem could require specialized equipment that only a dealer has. Independent service providers in the US may have access to most of the equipment and software to interpret the codes but those in Germany may have difficulty getting the information. Even in the US, some problems can only be addressed by the dealer. Throw in the hybrid system into the mix and you could end up with an expensive lump in your driveway. Of course there is the question of how you would handle safety recalls and software updates.

I question whether saving 3,000/year is worth risking a $50,000.
 

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I have to echo the above, especially diagnostics and software updates.

You said you did a lot of driving -- the range is pretty short and the comments seem to indicate there is not a lot of additional range added by regeneration - but I don't follow the hybrid threads that closely. And can you adapt the U.S. chargers to German electric standards?

But in reality, I think the safety standards will get you even if you want to plunge bravely ahead. To go to your point number 2, I think you are out of luck. I haven't opened the taillight, but, probably to save a buck or two, I believe FCA went back to a double duty bulb that is both brake and turn signal (dual filament) after having independent rear turn signals on the previous T & C models. You might be able to jury rig something, but it may not meet your country's standards (and it won't be pretty.) [I will editorialize that step backward, and the elimination of directionals in the side view mirrors (which caught me off guard as I though they were part of advanced tech) really annoyed me from a safety standpoint.]
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't want to sound "snotty" but anything MOPAR makes me a bit skiddish to begin with. Yes, I know these things are orders of magnitude better than than MOPAR of the 70s and 80s, which almost destroyed the brand -- but still, if I spend anytime on /r/askcarsales or /r/whatcarshouldIbuy, even MOPAR GMs know their products is (oftentimes) sub-standard quality.

That being said -- I also have little to no doubt that this thing could do the 8 years or about 80k miles with little to no problems. I mean these days when you can get 200tkm out of a Jetta almost hassle-free, I'd expect 100k out of a Pacifica (160,000 kilometers).

I think I need to see and drive both vehicles before making a purchase. If I am completely honest, if I could get the PHEV system in the VW Golf GTE in the Atlas, I'd buy one -- then again -- I think if they offered a mid-size 7-seater SUV with 30+MPG combined -- the delivery time would be measured in years and not months, and getting your hands on it would be close to impossible.

The single biggest advantage with the Atlas at this point is 1) dealer and tech support post-purchase. The new Atlas is based on VW's new MQB platform, which powers everything from the Golf to the Passat and the Atlas. Any problem I encounter has a massive aftermarket support community for proprietary Atlas-related issues, and the 2.0t motor in the thing (I believe ... don't quote me) is the single most produced motor in the world; 2) its not a minivan.

The Pacifica gets way better MPG, has ISOFIX (LATCH) in the 3rd row and an immense amount of space -- my biggest concern is relying on FIAT dealers for any kind of aftermarket support, and given what I am seeing on MOPAR forums, the "DIY" "retrofit rear fog lights" ideas aren't really comparable with the Golf MKVII or VWVortex forums. You guys are great and its an immense amount of info here -- but compare it to the VW fanatics who've turned their Golf into a religion -- its hard to compete.

The Pacifica offers some key advantages and they aren't minor, but material. I still don't know what to do, but the rear tail light situation seems tough. Looking at wiring diagrams for the previous gen and how others have done similar cars -- the trick is to turn the reverse lights into the turn signals, the rear drivers-side turn signal into a rear fog-light and add an after market reverse light under the bumper to get it to pass TüV.

Looks like I could even get a FIAT switch, with some creative wiring could get to handle the rear-fog light retrofit.

Honestly, my biggest concern with the Pacifica is the same you are echoing. This hybrid system is not only new for Chrysler but for FIAT as well and I imagine there will be growing pains for a few years. If you have dealer support it isn't a problem and you get to save $$$ on gas. Without dealer support on a factory warranty, its a roll of the dice. Maybe I get lucky and it works flawlessly for 6-8 years and I sell it/light it on fire at the time and move onto something else. Or some random relay dies in the battery back somewhere and I have a massive paperweight on my hands no one can diagnose and I have little forum support and the only way to fix the thing is ship it back to the US, round trip is approx. $2k.

I'll likely be in the US in the next month or so, I'll look at both and try and figure out what to do then.
 

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Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't want to sound "snotty" but anything MOPAR makes me a bit skiddish to begin with. Yes, I know these things are orders of magnitude better than than MOPAR of the 70s and 80s, which almost destroyed the brand -- but still, if I spend anytime on /r/askcarsales or /r/whatcarshouldIbuy, even MOPAR GMs know their products is (oftentimes) sub-standard quality.

That being said -- I also have little to no doubt that this thing could do the 8 years or about 80k miles with little to no problems. I mean these days when you can get 200tkm out of a Jetta almost hassle-free, I'd expect 100k out of a Pacifica (160,000 kilometers).

I think I need to see and drive both vehicles before making a purchase. If I am completely honest, if I could get the PHEV system in the VW Golf GTE in the Atlas, I'd buy one -- then again -- I think if they offered a mid-size 7-seater SUV with 30+MPG combined -- the delivery time would be measured in years and not months, and getting your hands on it would be close to impossible.

The single biggest advantage with the Atlas at this point is 1) dealer and tech support post-purchase. The new Atlas is based on VW's new MQB platform, which powers everything from the Golf to the Passat and the Atlas. Any problem I encounter has a massive aftermarket support community for proprietary Atlas-related issues, and the 2.0t motor in the thing (I believe ... don't quote me) is the single most produced motor in the world; 2) its not a minivan.

The Pacifica gets way better MPG, has ISOFIX (LATCH) in the 3rd row and an immense amount of space -- my biggest concern is relying on FIAT dealers for any kind of aftermarket support, and given what I am seeing on MOPAR forums, the "DIY" "retrofit rear fog lights" ideas aren't really comparable with the Golf MKVII or VWVortex forums. You guys are great and its an immense amount of info here -- but compare it to the VW fanatics who've turned their Golf into a religion -- its hard to compete.

The Pacifica offers some key advantages and they aren't minor, but material. I still don't know what to do, but the rear tail light situation seems tough. Looking at wiring diagrams for the previous gen and how others have done similar cars -- the trick is to turn the reverse lights into the turn signals, the rear drivers-side turn signal into a rear fog-light and add an after market reverse light under the bumper to get it to pass TüV.

Looks like I could even get a FIAT switch, with some creative wiring could get to handle the rear-fog light retrofit.

Honestly, my biggest concern with the Pacifica is the same you are echoing. This hybrid system is not only new for Chrysler but for FIAT as well and I imagine there will be growing pains for a few years. If you have dealer support it isn't a problem and you get to save $$$ on gas. Without dealer support on a factory warranty, its a roll of the dice. Maybe I get lucky and it works flawlessly for 6-8 years and I sell it/light it on fire at the time and move onto something else. Or some random relay dies in the battery back somewhere and I have a massive paperweight on my hands no one can diagnose and I have little forum support and the only way to fix the thing is ship it back to the US, round trip is approx. $2k.

I'll likely be in the US in the next month or so, I'll look at both and try and figure out what to do then.
It sounds as if you are trying to convince yourself to over look the draw backs of foreign ownership of a PacHy.
I agree with most all that has been said and would like to add my 2 cents. Chrysler is not new to hybrid technology having produced a Dodge Durango Hybrid and a Chrysler Aspen Hybrid in 2009. Market share was not there, no government incentives at that time, and they were expensive. They did increase gas milage by about 25%, still not enough to offset the cost.
The biggest disadvantage for you, as everyone has said, is service. Before any US dealer was permitted to order or sell a Pacifica Hybrid they were required to have at least one mechanic on staff who has attended the mandatory factory training on servicing the Pacifica Hybrid. In addition that dealership had to purchase the necessary and required speciality tools to work on the hybrid. Those tools cost the dealer about $8,000.00 USD. so regardless of how good a mechanic you think you are you cannot service the hybrid yourself outside of oil changes and basic maintenance. You are dealing with very high voltage in some of the systems so you cannot be poking around with a screw driver. in order to even do a diagnostic on the car the whole system must be "powered down". Maybe in the future FCA will introduce the PacHy or something similar for the European market until then stay with something you can get service on.
 

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Absolutely positively DO NOT DO THIS!

I'm in the opposite situation: German living in the US. I have been back and forth between the two countries on work assignments and I have been through the process of considering taking my US car to Germany. The rear lights are probably a minor concern that can be addressed. As others have said warranty and any repairs/recalls are going to be a major issue. On top the charging standards are different, so you won't be able to simply plug in the car in Germany. At a minimum you will need to have an adapter. You will also need to pay German VAT (19%) on import. In order to get the car registered in Germany you will need to pass a few items: https://www.uscars24.de/Deutsch/TueV/Ablauf.html

I'm not saying it's impossible but I would only attempt this together with an importer that has lots of experience.
 

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As someone who imported a German smart forTwo to the US a couple of years before they were officially introduced to the US market... it can be a royal pain to get a grey-market car serviced. Fortunately for me there were some import shops that were used to Mercedes and VW and willing to take on something new, but we often had to get parts shipped from overseas (they were not cross-compatible with the Canadian and Mexican built smart cars, nor were they compatible with the ones for the US market. In addition, the US-based smart dealers would not touch the ones privately imported).

Personally I've had good experience with Mopar (my prior Chrysler minivan lasted 15 years and so far I love my Pacifica), but the UConnect software is new for the 2018 FCA models and there have been some complaints about updates. The complex electronics are the main reason I bought an extended warranty (first car I've done this for).

You might want to talk with your local service/mechanic before your trip to the US to see if they'd have any concerns about getting parts and/or information about the Pacifica Hybrid. But I would have strong reservations about shipping such a new model overseas.
 

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Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't want to sound "snotty" but anything MOPAR makes me a bit skiddish to begin with. Yes, I know these things are orders of magnitude better than than MOPAR of the 70s and 80s, which almost destroyed the brand -- but still, if I spend anytime on /r/askcarsales or /r/whatcarshouldIbuy, even MOPAR GMs know their products is (oftentimes) sub-standard quality.

That being said -- I also have little to no doubt that this thing could do the 8 years or about 80k miles with little to no problems. I mean these days when you can get 200tkm out of a Jetta almost hassle-free, I'd expect 100k out of a Pacifica (160,000 kilometers).

I think I need to see and drive both vehicles before making a purchase. If I am completely honest, if I could get the PHEV system in the VW Golf GTE in the Atlas, I'd buy one -- then again -- I think if they offered a mid-size 7-seater SUV with 30+MPG combined -- the delivery time would be measured in years and not months, and getting your hands on it would be close to impossible.

The single biggest advantage with the Atlas at this point is 1) dealer and tech support post-purchase. The new Atlas is based on VW's new MQB platform, which powers everything from the Golf to the Passat and the Atlas. Any problem I encounter has a massive aftermarket support community for proprietary Atlas-related issues, and the 2.0t motor in the thing (I believe ... don't quote me) is the single most produced motor in the world; 2) its not a minivan.

The Pacifica gets way better MPG, has ISOFIX (LATCH) in the 3rd row and an immense amount of space -- my biggest concern is relying on FIAT dealers for any kind of aftermarket support, and given what I am seeing on MOPAR forums, the "DIY" "retrofit rear fog lights" ideas aren't really comparable with the Golf MKVII or VWVortex forums. You guys are great and its an immense amount of info here -- but compare it to the VW fanatics who've turned their Golf into a religion -- its hard to compete.

The Pacifica offers some key advantages and they aren't minor, but material. I still don't know what to do, but the rear tail light situation seems tough. Looking at wiring diagrams for the previous gen and how others have done similar cars -- the trick is to turn the reverse lights into the turn signals, the rear drivers-side turn signal into a rear fog-light and add an after market reverse light under the bumper to get it to pass TüV.

Looks like I could even get a FIAT switch, with some creative wiring could get to handle the rear-fog light retrofit.

Honestly, my biggest concern with the Pacifica is the same you are echoing. This hybrid system is not only new for Chrysler but for FIAT as well and I imagine there will be growing pains for a few years. If you have dealer support it isn't a problem and you get to save $$$ on gas. Without dealer support on a factory warranty, its a roll of the dice. Maybe I get lucky and it works flawlessly for 6-8 years and I sell it/light it on fire at the time and move onto something else. Or some random relay dies in the battery back somewhere and I have a massive paperweight on my hands no one can diagnose and I have little forum support and the only way to fix the thing is ship it back to the US, round trip is approx. $2k.

I'll likely be in the US in the next month or so, I'll look at both and try and figure out what to do then.
I saw online that there are places in Germany that sell gas Pacificas, so eventually there may be hybrids available there that are suited for Germany. You might ask them about servicing hybrids in the future. Those places may also sell the parts that you may need to modify an American van. I understand that you are wanting to save money, but as others have mentioned, it may be difficult to modify the van and get the service that some of the hybrids require. You may want to continue reading the hybrid threads to better understand the real world hybrid gas/electric mileage. I don't have a hybrid, but it seems like people get 30 miles or so on a charge, so it depends on what the van is used for to get the best mpg. It makes sense to consider options. Good luck with your quest.

Used Chrysler Pacifica cars Germany

Edit: Might have found some hybrids in Germany (or place with similar language). Maybe they have service.
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=254843692&cn=DE&isSearchRequest=true&makeModelVariant1.makeId=5700&makeModelVariant1.modelId=13&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCENDING&searchId=0dc35584-4e91-a93b-3c38-ed34a74ab079
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=260333283&cn=DE&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&isSearchRequest=true&makeModelVariant1.makeId=5700&makeModelVariant1.modelId=13&pageNumber=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCENDING&searchId=3416f9b7-dced-3f49-ed35-38befb1f88dd

To answer your question about maps, 2018s have Android Auto/Apple CarPlay and mirror the cell phone onto the touchscreen. I don't know if another built-in navigation system is available with the 2018s.

My 2017 van has a built-in navigation system that works, but I prefer using the Android Auto that another vehicle I own has. I think that map updates are available for the built in navigation in my van, but they are expensive and I have to wonder how often they are updated since the version I received was outdated when I got it. Built-in navigation maps are updated by paying money online and possibly downloading onto a USB stick.
 

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To answer the OP's question directly: there _are_ European-specification lights for the Pacifica. Front lights such as ebay item 263395852124 , which is incorrectly described as a "Canada" model -- wrong; Canadian-spec cars almost all have US-spec headlamps. (Germany will often accept US-spec headlamps even though they lack the nominally-required motorized level adjustors) and taillight clusters like ebay item 401473107965 -- mouse over the image to zoom in and you'll see the central area is split into two compartments. The upper part has a red lens and clear bulb and serves as the brake light, while the lower part has a pink lens. With a pink lens like this you either have an amber bulb (and the resultant light is towards the reddish end of the allowable amber range) or you have a clear bulb with a green see-thru plastic balloon over it, built into the lamp. The white light from the bulb, through the green filter and then through the pink filter, yields amber light. Common in Europe (and the rest of the world that uses the European lighting standards), but we saw a few of these in North America. The first couple years of Audi A8 used this technique in America (fairly clear photo at i.ebayimg.com/images/g/mPQAAOSwgLlafiSm/s-l1600.jpg (sorry, zero post count so I can't post URLs) before going to a red rear blinker.

So the problem isn't the existence of rest-of-world/non-US light fixtures, the problem is going to be wiring. The US/Canada vehicles almost certainly don't have the separate wire for the separate rear turn signal, and adding it without causing new problems would be a royal pain. It's a stupid nuisance that American regulations continue to permit the red "looks just like a brake light" rear turn signal so many decades after the rest of the world decided it's not good enough as described at acarplace.com/cars/turn-signals .

Also, putting a red bulb or a red LED in a reversing lamp does not transform it into a rear fog lamp.

(mystery question: where are these export-spec Pacificas sold? As far as I know they're not offered in Continental Europe or Scandinavia. Can't find any evidence of their being offered in Japan or Australia. They might be offered in Mexico, but they'd probably have the cheaper US-spec lighting system. So...where???)
 

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Soooooo I think I‘ll do this. At Mopar websites I see a lot of deficated export parts (looks like it‘s meant for UAE and China).
There are all the parts, including E-marked headlamps, rear fog lights and all the wiring plus a new light switch including the rear fog light. Adding (hopefully) all of it plus a set of 20“ wheels it sums up to 3,434$
 

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I‘m confused about the taillights and maybe someone could help?
There are export lights („with arabic lettering“), „Incandescent“ and LED lamps. The arabic ones are just for the „rear-side“ part of the cluster while the others are available for tailgate placement as well
 

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As others have said, the real risk is service, diagnostics and parts. There have been several critical software updates that may be unobtanium in a non supported region. Years back I had a 95 Alfa 164 from about the time Alfa left the USA. Loved the car but getting parts and service became a nightmare. And that was for a vehicle officially sold in the USA.
 

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I‘ve already checked with my FCA dealers here and they offer full support. Plus, we have the Wiesbaden base close by where they sell the Pacifica to armed forces
 

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Soooooo I think I‘ll do this. At Mopar websites I see a lot of deficated export parts (looks like it‘s meant for UAE and China).
There are all the parts, including E-marked headlamps, rear fog lights and all the wiring plus a new light switch including the rear fog light. Adding (hopefully) all of it plus a set of 20“ wheels it sums up to 3,434$
It can't be that easy. The tail lights will need at least 3 additional wires- for the dedicated turn signal lights on each side and for the rear fog lights. All lights are controlled by by the Body Controller, located on the opposite end of the van near driver's left foot. The wires have to run through multiple harnesses to get to their destinations. Even if you install the new wires, the controller will need to be reprogrammed to work with them. You'll have a hard time finding a willing dealer, and no one else has the equipment.
 

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Turns out it's even easier. Most of the modifications are made by a shop and it costs (including German registration/homologation) below 2000$
 

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OK,
I bought a 2018 Pacifica here in Germany and the car is "ready to drive" in my hands.
My dealer bought the car in th US.
The turnsignals are red.
I got a special admission to drive the car with the red turnlights / and I'm not a diplomat :laugh:
The rear fog light is only a led light under the rear bumper with a seperat switcher.
I got a 2 year full warranty from my local German dealer.
This dealer can also repair and update the complete car, also the uconnect with german Radiofrequencies and German maps.
So I have no problem with all this things.........
 

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Ours arrived today

And like what martinause said: there are 3 exemptions (at least here at our local department of motor vehicles) which have to be added and paid. Paid a total of 360€ to get the vehicle registered.
Plus 2.000€ for TUEV / Homologation
@martinause
what's your uconnect version? Mine is 17.09.01 and it seems nobody is able to convert this rather recent version (I'll check with Wittkopp, though)

And, because I've asked this in a different thread: 2017 Pacifica Hybrid's top speed is 170 km/h / 105mph where some sort of limiter kicks in
 

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