[PacDave]

Isn't it odd that charging at 6kW is considered to produce excess heat?

The hybrid battery system is capable of well over 100kW in/out and the ICE cooling system has enough thermal reserve to handle operating an Internal Combustion Engine in 50degree heat without overheating. A normal 6cylinder should have 2000cfm electric fan spec’d for it and yet Chrysler has to run the electric fan at 90% to charge at 6kW?

Lets see if we can point out 1 other Level 2 charging EV that runs a fan during charging?

It simply doesn't add up to me. I’d love Chrysler to explain why it has to be this way.

I have my money on mistake. And haven't done the software updates in spite of this. So we'll see. My battery has lasted this long and I get great range. but If I did get a new HV battery before 10years is up its not actually a bad thing either.

I’ll play a control in this experiment. I have the November 2018 powertrain software.

One thing I was thinking about is that the cooling system on most ICE vehicles relies on the fact that the car is generally moving and able to pass a large amount of air over the radiator. When the car is not moving (parked in a garage) and it’s also in an enclosed space where the attempt to cool will cause the ambient temperature to rise, it’s gonna be more difficult to cool things down.

Maybe there’s an algorithm in the cooling system that tries real hard to keep the temperature from going over a specific limit. When the temperature hits this limit the cooling system gives it all it’s got to try to bring the temperature down.

 

[m0ebius604]

One thing I was thinking about is that the cooling system on most ICE vehicles relies on the fact that the car is generally moving and able to pass a large amount of air over the radiator. When the car is not moving (parked in a garage) and it’s also in an enclosed space where the attempt to cool will cause the ambient temperature to rise, it’s gonna be more difficult to cool things down.

Maybe there’s an algorithm in the cooling system that tries real hard to keep the temperature from going over a specific limit. When the temperature hits this limit the cooling system gives it all it’s got to try to bring the temperature down.

Yes, your likely right about then algorithm. And its more acceptable in hot climates but it’s been happening all winter.

The hv battery thermal characteristic describes ideal temps between 10-38c and up-to 50c max.
So it makes sense in Pheonix Arizona to use a fan during charging where the shade may be already 40c.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/41rb58pwc8jwl2o/HV Battery Cooling.pdf?dl=0

An engine needs airflow no doubt there. But if you try to boil 2 gallons of water in a 500lb aluminum pot with a match then how long would that take to get to 38c? (I’ll do the math later when I have time) The Heat is generated by losses due to chemical conversion efficiency.. the pack wouldnt be practical with losses high enough to need a 2000cfm fan running at 90% during charging with 20c ambient temps.

Theres only a 1/2”ID hoses connecting the battery to the cooling system through a heat exchanger. This is a heat pipe to the engine coolant and circulating both fluids balances the heat with the old strategy so adding thermal control isnt whats new IMO.

Its not a serious issue. Its just annoying

 

[AZBean]

The hv battery thermal characteristic describes ideal temps between 10-38c and up-to 50c max.
So it makes sense in Pheonix Arizona to use a fan during charging where the shade may be already 40c.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/41rb58pwc8jwl2o/HV Battery Cooling.pdf?dl=0
...
Its not a serious issue. Its just annoying

Thank you for the document. It indicates that only passive cooling is used when charging from an EVSE. I thought that one of the changes made by the U73 recall software updates was that it now uses active cooling, with the electric compressor turned on. It doesn't seem possible that all of that noise could be coming from just the fan and the pumps. Do you know of a simple way to determine whether the compressor is running or not?

And yes I agree, it's not serious, just annoying.

 

[m0ebius604]

Thank you for the document. It indicates that only passive cooling is used when charging from an EVSE. I thought that one of the changes made by the U73 recall software updates was that it now uses active cooling, with the electric compressor turned on. It doesn't seem possible that all of that noise could be coming from just the fan and the pumps. Do you know of a simple way to determine whether the compressor is running or not?

And yes I agree, it's not serious, just annoying.

Exactly, Passive cooling is what i’m talking about in my last post - The heat is dumped into the engine coolant (and engine block) by running the coolant pumps.

I didn't consider that it could now be using active cooling by using the chiller and AC to pull the temps down.. trusting that the description reported of a “fan noise” was actually only the fan.

Simple test - Have some electric only range prior to the following: Place your vehicle in Run mode, turn AC on with a low air temp, and step outside your vehicle and monitor the noises (or record for comparison). Try MAX AC also. Compare to your noises when charging.

You’ll hear the HV compressor come on and start buzzing, then there should the electric fan noises (lower pitched, sounds like a turboprop). It will come on to cool the AC Condenser.

The AC Condenser needs the air flow to work properly..

Side notes: The easiest test to see if an electric fan works without special tools or overheating an engine is to turn on the AC. (BMW uses a coolant based condenser now that now breaks this rule because they wanted the AC to work in the winters too; but adds the new problem of it overheating your refrigerant if it doesn't work right:surprise

If the AC is on during charging then the electric fan makes 100% sense and the van is actually using active cooling..

But the question remains whether the scenerio make sense for needing active cooling.

 

[PacDave]

Yes, your likely right about then algorithm. And its more acceptable in hot climates but it’s been happening all winter.

The hv battery thermal characteristic describes ideal temps between 10-38c and up-to 50c max.
So it makes sense in Pheonix Arizona to use a fan during charging where the shade may be already 40c.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/41rb58pwc8jwl2o/HV Battery Cooling.pdf?dl=0

An engine needs airflow no doubt there. But if you try to boil 2 gallons of water in a 500lb aluminum pot with a match then how long would that take to get to 38c? (I’ll do the math later when I have time) The Heat is generated by losses due to chemical conversion efficiency.. the pack wouldnt be practical with losses high enough to need a 2000cfm fan running at 90% during charging with 20c ambient temps.

Theres only a 1/2”ID hoses connecting the battery to the cooling system through a heat exchanger. This is a heat pipe to the engine coolant and circulating both fluids balances the heat with the old strategy so adding thermal control isnt whats new IMO.

Its not a serious issue. Its just annoying

Yeah, I understand. As I mentioned in my previous post, it’s the first time I noticed it and it was a hot day in an enclosed garage. It was pretty loud when I opened the garage door. But I haven’t heard it since then.

 

[AZBean]

Simple test - Have some electric only range prior to the following: Place your vehicle in Run mode, turn AC on with a low air temp, and step outside your vehicle and monitor the noises (or record for comparison). Try MAX AC also. Compare to your noises when charging.

You’ll hear the HV compressor come on and start buzzing, then there should the electric fan noises (lower pitched, sounds like a turboprop). It will come on to cool the AC Condenser.

I made some audio recordings in order to compare the noise made during level 2 charging with the noise made when the van is ready to run but parked with Max A/C on.

It is not clear to me whether the HV compressor is running while charging. There is a clear creaking noise at the beginning of the recording as the fan starts to spin up but I am not sure that is the compressor.

On the recording of Max A/C mode the fan is not as loud and its speed varies a bit. During the slower portions you can definitely hear the buzzing of the compressor but it doesn't sound quite the same as the sound at the beginning of the charging recording.

Charging noise clip

Max A/C noise clip

 

[m0ebius604]

I made some audio recordings in order to compare the noise made during level 2 charging with the noise made when the van is ready to run but parked with Max A/C on.

It is not clear to me whether the HV compressor is running while charging. There is a clear creaking noise at the beginning of the recording as the fan starts to spin up but I am not sure that is the compressor.

On the recording of Max A/C mode the fan is not as loud and its speed varies a bit. During the slower portions you can definitely hear the buzzing of the compressor but it doesn't sound quite the same as the sound at the beginning of the charging recording.

Charging noise clip

Max A/C noise clip

Nice clean audio clips. I dont hear the AC compressor in the charging clip either.

So what is the ambient temps during charging? Was the engine running prior? Or coolant is close to air temps?

 

[AZBean]

Nice clean audio clips. I dont hear the AC compressor in the charging clip either.

So what is the ambient temps during charging? Was the engine running prior? Or coolant is close to air temps?

For the charging clip the ambient temperature was about 100F and it had been parked for several hours before I plugged it in.

For the A/C clip the ambient temperature was about 95F and it had just come in from a 5 mile round trip in EV only mode.

 

[m0ebius604]

For the charging clip the ambient temperature was about 100F and it had been parked for several hours before I plugged it in.

For the A/C clip the ambient temperature was about 95F and it had just come in from a 5 mile round trip in EV only mode.

Well it’s definitely hot enough

So do you think its running the AC compressor, using the Chiller and Actively cooling the HV Battery now that you’ve done this test?

The compressor needs to run to for AC.. You could tell definitively by interrupting the charge process after the fan has fun for a while, and see if the AC lines are hotter/colder than ambient..

 

[m0ebius604]

Hmm if the AC motor isn't running its definitely not actively cooling the battery and leads me to feel its an unnecessary bug amd not a feature thats been added.

As you saw from your tests with the AC functioning the fan is pulse width modulated (PWM) in steps and is controlled. The fan during charging is not controlled in anyway, it just goes full on.

 

[fudder]

I don't feel like this is temperature related. I've noticed it a half-dozen times with my 2018, ever since we got the L2 charger.

Happened last night again, after a very short drive (< 5 mins), the outside temperature around 65F and the inside garage temperature around 70F.

Kicked on about 10 minutes after engine-off & plugin.

 

[m0ebius604]

I don't feel like this is temperature related. I've noticed it a half-dozen times with my 2018, ever since we got the L2 charger.

Happened last night again, after a very short drive (< 5 mins), the outside temperature around 65F and the inside garage temperature around 70F.

Kicked on about 10 minutes after engine-off & plugin.

Yeah, this has been my perception of the situation too.

I have chosen to avoid the update for more mature software when its released.

Unfortunately not everyone has that option.

Maybe @AZBean could ask Chrysler-cares why this happens.. they only respond to American inquiries

 

[AZBean]

I don't feel like this is temperature related. I've noticed it a half-dozen times with my 2018, ever since we got the L2 charger.

Happened last night again, after a very short drive (< 5 mins), the outside temperature around 65F and the inside garage temperature around 70F.

Kicked on about 10 minutes after engine-off & plugin.

Hmmm, I have always thought it was temperature related. It happens only with a level 2 charger. It happens more frequently within a two hour charge session during the summer than in the winter. It also happens more frequently and begins sooner if the gas engine is hot from driving in hybrid mode. I do not know if the behavior on a 2019 is different from my 2018.

 

[pennygunn]

I have a 2019 and came here to see if anyone else was experiencing the same problem. I've had all the recalls done and never noticed this fan noise until now. Other than this problem, I'm thrilled with my van. Getting on average 50-90 miles to a gallon.

 

[ChryslerCares]

I have a 2019 and came here to see if anyone else was experiencing the same problem. I've had all the recalls done and never noticed this fan noise until now. Other than this problem, I'm thrilled with my van. Getting on average 50-90 miles to a gallon.

Hi pennygunn,

We understand why this may be concerning. Being that we cannot determine what this sound may be since we're not mechanically trained, we recommend visiting your local FCA dealer for an inspection. We're also available via private message and you would like any additional assistance.

Lydia
Chrysler Social Care Specialist

 

[Chbrq]

Can I recommend that everyone having this problem list their L2 charging device? I had a V1 40A JuiceBox go bad and get replaced under warranty. When I got the new JuiceBox Pro 40A this started. I took it to the dealer with my JuiceBox. The dealer said they couldn't connect my charger and could not replicate it with thier charger. This happens to me EVERY time I charge.

Could this be a problem with the L2 charger device?

 

[JBab]

Can I recommend that everyone having this problem list their L2 charging device? I had a V1 40A JuiceBox go bad and get replaced under warranty. When I got the new JuiceBox Pro 40A this started. I took it to the dealer with my JuiceBox. The dealer said they couldn't connect my charger and could not replicate it with thier charger. This happens to me EVERY time I charge.

Could this be a problem with the L2 charger device?

My van does this, but I have a ChargePoint charger. I don't think the charger really does much besides communicate with the vehicle and switch the power on/off. The AC-DC conversion happens inside the van, so I doubt the charger has anything to do with it.

 

[Chbrq]

Can I recommend that everyone having this problem list their L2 charging device? I had a V1 40A JuiceBox go bad and get replaced under warranty. When I got the new JuiceBox Pro 40A this started. I took it to the dealer with my JuiceBox. The dealer said they couldn't connect my charger and could not replicate it with thier charger. This happens to me EVERY time I charge.

Could this be a problem with the L2 charger device?

So, following up on my own post. The problem has nothing to do with the charger (as JBab suspected). I took my van back to the dealership and asked if I could sit in the vehicle while it charged and wait for the noise to start. Sure enough, the van when into "noisy fan" mode. I quickly grabbed the tech and he grabbed a 2nd tech. Neither of them had any idea why it was doing it. The van was inside the dealership shop, around 80 degrees and the vehicle had been charging for 25 minutes before it started. No error codes in the diagnostics.

Right now the van is in the shop for further diagnostics. I will update when the dealership is done with their assessment. But this is progress.

 

[Kenpac]

Hello pachyderm,
Please know we would be more than happy to offer our support while you are working with your dealer to get this recall completed. If you need any additional assistance after please update us that on well. If this is something that interest you, feel free to send us a private message.
Julie
Chrysler Social Care Specialist

Hello pachyderm,
Please know we would be more than happy to offer our support while you are working with your dealer to get this recall completed. If you need any additional assistance after please update us that on well. If this is something that interest you, feel free to send us a private message.
Julie
Chrysler Social Care Specialist

Hello All! I tried searching on here, but didn't find a similar thread, but I'm hoping I'm just being paranoid... I've got my van (which I love) and recently got the L2 charger installed. I have received a recall notice, but no notice of the part arriving, so I'm just keeping it and driving it until something happens/the part comes in.

Last week, and now today, I've gotten home, turned everything off and it goes silent. I plug in, and then a half hour later, I can hear a fan running - loud enough that it had me thinking the car had turned on... I double checked the dashboard and the ignition is still saying off, but the fan is running.

Does anyone know why that would happen? My only guess so far is that the L2 charges so much faster that it gets hot while charging and the fan turns on to keep it cool? Since it's only a guess, I figured I would turn here to the experts! Any information appreciated

So is the loud fan a defect or is it normal? Does it only happen to people who have had the recall on the cruise control done? Also doesn’t it take a lot of electricity to run a fan like that ?

 

[m0ebius604]

So is the loud fan a defect or is it normal? Does it only happen to people who have had the recall on the cruise control done? Also doesn’t it take a lot of electricity to run a fan like that ?

Hi @Kenpac,

I think the answer to all your questions is Yes.

It is normal for the current state of the vehicle as all the new ones do it too. But the original software from release of the vehicle does not activate the fan during charging.

It started occuring after the u94 recall and it was considered by many a feature for cooling during charging, and I think this is the current understanding.. but after some digging through the computers while its charging it really doesnt add up - nor does the implementation make sense. Its like a high school kid added the code (or it shouldn't be there) because there is no need to activate a 2000+ CFM, 60-80amp load at 90%. Thats a big fan and 10-15% would be sensable if it was intentional, and would still be more than Sufficient to manage the heat generated by an ICE idling.. so IMO this is more of a glitch than a feature.

On my van with the original software, the OBCM charges the 355v battery at 378v and 5.8A during level 2 charging at 12A and without the fan (after 3hrs charging) the charge electronics runs at a stable 153f (67c) which normal for most computer systems.

The Argument is that the HV battery generates so much heat that it needs cooling fan to cool it off. So after I use a 30A level 2 And i start up the vehicle my coolant temps (the medium the fan is cooling) is on average 5c higher than ambient on warm days which is not alarming and 68f (20c) in the winter..

Now the HV Battery can charge at 80kW (225A @ 355v) during regen and discharge at 160kW (450A @ 355v) so its impossible for me to see why the fuss over 5.8A flow during charging? Even after a hard sprint the fan doesnt come on when its driving unless the ICE needs it. This 90% on is similar to how BMW runs the fan on ICE vehicles should the waterpump fail.

Heres a screenshot of my van charging at 12A level 2 after 3hours. Its hard to compare to a u94 vehicle becuasr access to these tools is expensive still. But AlfaOBD (thank you @stop-eject) appears to be promising for free readouts.

You’ll note OBCM temps, current snd voltage during charging.

This is in the BPCM and the cell temps inside the battery are max 84f (28c) which is near ideal for chemical efficiency.

Coolant pump speed is 0%.