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Driving in L isn’t disruptive to slowing down for a stop or light at all .
If your rate of deceleration is dramatically different than what people expect, then yes, it's disruptive.

The goal of L was to give the driver a mechanism to slow the car down when going down a steep incline on the highway. That they executed it such that you CAN use it in daily city traffic, doesn't mean you should. It won't hurt the vehicle, and YOU can't damage anything, but if you lift off the go pedal and cause yourself to behave unpredictably to other traffic, you may very easily find yourself in a bad situation.

If your accelerating to a light and brake at last second that’s your fault
Disruptive. Absolutely.

but if your timing traffic flow and patterns slowing down in L has zero effect on anybody
Slowing down in L is exactly like using the brakes extremely aggressively--not dissimilar to accelerating and then braking at the last second.

But my entire point was, not only is it like doing that, but more importantly it's like doing that WITH NO BRAKE LIGHTS.

Go ahead, go out in your ICE car and unplug the brake lights and drive around by being extremely aggressive on the brake pedal.

CAN you do that? Sure. Would you do that? No.

Mine was a simple warning: you're not only doing something unexpected/abnormal, you're also doing it without the benefit of brake lights. The van doesn't put on the brake lights when it slows down aggressively in L.

L was designed to be used on steep inclines on the open road, to keep the van from running away and to help you maintain control--just like lower gears on an ICE vehicle.
 

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And by the way: if a cop is following you and your vehicle slows aggressively indicating that you're braking, and no brake lights come on, he will stop you and likely cite you for no brake lights.

You can even prove that technically, your brake lights work. That won't matter, as he will cite you for braking without signaling. (In fact, showing that your lights work might even be worse--you couldn't then backtrack and talk yourself into a fix-it ticket.)

In other words, you aren't behaving predictably or by the rules of the road. Braking without signaling (brake lights or hand signal) is against the law in every municipality and state, I believe.

I guess you could use L and use the traditional hand signal for braking.
 

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It took me a little while to get used to the increased braking but now I drive in L full time. Used correctly, it really cuts down on the use of the mechanical brakes.
Actually, no, it doesn't. Not at all. L vs D, has absolutely zero effect on the mechanical brakes.

All L does is increase the rate of regeneration when you lift the go pedal, compared to lifting off the go pedal in D--which also uses regeneration.

Your brake pedal also increases the rate of regneration, to slow the van down and mimic mechanical brakes on an ICE vehicle. Using the brake pedal in and of itself does not engage the mechanical brakes. What it DOES do is turn on the brake lights to signal traffic around you--which is crucial to driving in traffic and behaving predictably and responsibly. Using L doesn't do that, and makes traffic around you wonder what's going on.

The mechanical brakes are engaged in a limited set of circumstances. Two of them are: (a) below some slow speed (my Prius, it's below 7mph); or (b) if you stab the brakes and request as much braking as possible at any speed. I don't know if the PacHy has any other reason to engage mechanical brakes.

In everyday driving, as a practical matter you'll never wear out the brakes. The regeneration does all the hard work of scrubbing that speed and either recapturing the energy to use later, or else usi the hybrid system (instead of pads/rotors that eventually wear and need replaced) to dissipate that energy as heat.

Plenty of Prius owners hit 200K on factory brakes.
 

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Coming from driving other EVs I would personally much prefer the L mode crank the regen up to its max when neither pedal is pushed. However, it does take getting used to driving in such a mode. I have no idea it better for the brake longevity or not since the brake pedal blends both and likely is exclusively regen for some (eg gentle) braking conditions.
 

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since the brake pedal blends both
as I said, brake pedal does regen unless it's the final 11mph slowdown or it's a panic type stop.

There's no need to worry about the brake pedal engaging the mechanical brakes in every day driving, vs using L. They both do the same thing, except the brake pedal does the responsible thing and activates the brake lights.

I would frankly program the car not to do the L thing under 40mph or whatever, for that reason.
 

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except the brake pedal does the responsible thing and activates the brake lights.
And that is 100% Chryslers fault for not tying brake light activation to deceleration rather than brake pedal activation. Lots of EVs "get this right" even while supporting high regen while neither pedal is depressed.
 

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And that is 100% Chryslers fault for not tying brake light activation to deceleration rather than brake pedal activation. Lots of EVs "get this right" even while supporting high regen while neither pedal is depressed.
great, it's Chrysler's fault for not programming it that way.

But if you bought one that behaves that way, the fault/responsibility is now on YOU. You chose to buy a car that behaved that way; you now own the consequences of your choice. It's not Chrysler's fault what you do in traffic with it after you buy it.

Gripe and moan about it all you want, it's simply a fact of how the van behaves. Given that's how it behaves, it's now up to you to accommodate that properly to stay within the laws and to be a reasonable and predictable driver in traffic.

Signaling when braking is one of those laws.

The whole "I want to drive it weirdly and unpredictably in traffic because I'm entitled" thing goes way back to Prius drivers over 15 years ago, playing their rolling video game in traffic and not caring how it affects anyone else.

It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.
 

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great, it's Chrysler's fault for not programming it that way.

But if you bought one that behaves that way, the fault/responsibility is now on YOU. You chose to buy a car that behaved that way; you now own the consequences of your choice. It's not Chrysler's fault what you do in traffic with it after you buy it.

Gripe and moan about it all you want, it's simply a fact of how the van behaves. Given that's how it behaves, it's now up to you to accommodate that properly to stay within the laws and to be a reasonable and predictable driver in traffic.

Signaling when braking is one of those laws.

The whole "I want to drive it weirdly and unpredictably in traffic because I'm entitled" thing goes way back to Prius drivers over 15 years ago, playing their rolling video game in traffic and not caring how it affects anyone else.

It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.
Any vehicle with a manual transmission may slow significantly when the driver lifts off the accelerator with no activation of the brake lights. This doesn't seem to have caused any rash of traffic accidents over the decades.
 

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Any vehicle with a manual transmission may slow significantly when the driver lifts off the accelerator with no activation of the brake lights.
If you drive around in 2nd gear, sure.

That doesn't absolve you of signaling your intent to brake, regardless of the technology used.

If you're going to use a technology that doesn't automatically put on the brake lights, then use hand signals. Either way, the traffic laws are written to mandate that you will signal your intent to slow down/stop.

Although why you wouldn't use said brake pedal technology that (a) engages the regeneration process to your requirements for the moment (leaving the mechanical brakes completely alone), and (b) also automatically signals your intent to slow down, I don't know.

Maybe you're intent on playing your rolling video game just to feel like you're somehow driving something "different" and "special"? I dunno.
 

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And by the way, let's all keep in mind: while using "L" in city driving does zero harm to the hybrid system, it was never intended to be used in city driving.

Jurassic Park comes to mind here. You're too busy thinking about whether you can, to think about whether you should.
 

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If you drive around in 2nd gear, sure.
It will do it in any gear dependent on gear ratio and engine rpm. Not to mention that it's completely legal to downshift a manual transmission to slow a vehicle and that doing so to control your speed has been taught in drivers education basically forever.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill here.
 

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The whole "I want to drive it weirdly and unpredictably in traffic because I'm entitled" thing goes way back to Prius drivers over 15 years ago, playing their rolling video game in traffic and not caring how it affects anyone else.
Wow, so much hostility towards hybrid owners. I'm surprised you are one.

Yes, it is good to be aware that "L" doesn't activate the brake lights, but that in no way means this is "ideal." I've driven lots of EVs and brake light activation during regen while neither pedal is depressed is just the sensible thing to do. It is a common gas-centered vehicle design feature to tie brake lights to brake pedal (and it is "simpler"), but it is kind of a bad idea for PHEV and EV vehicles. I'm willing to bet as they become more common, braking on deceleration will become the standard.

I like "1-pedal" driving. Others more used to traditional gas-mobiles not. All vehicles I've ever driven make it opt in.
 

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@adam1991 - I totally disagree with you; do you actually own and drive one of these cars? L does not trigger the brake lights when letting of the accelerator (as it does in EVs with aggressive regenerative braking like a Tesla) because, well, it isn't particularly aggressive. Sure, there is more regen than in D, but to say that it is irresponsible to use it daily, or that one would be liable for a rear-end accident, is totally inaccurate. L will slow you down faster, but to come to a full stop, unless you are going uphill, will always require the brake pedal to be used. There are standards (e.g., UNECE World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations (WP.29) out there that determine the threshold of deceleration whereby brake lights need to be activated. Not sure if DOT aligns with UNECE, but I'm pretty sure there are some regs out there.
 

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Wow, so much hostility towards hybrid owners. I'm surprised you are one.
I own a hybrid for what it does. I also recognize my role in society as a responsible driver.

How is my attitude on this "hostile"? Do tell.

It is a common gas-centered vehicle design feature to tie brake lights to brake pedal (and it is "simpler"), but it is kind of a bad idea for PHEV and EV vehicles.
I think you mean "it's a bad idea to in EVs to activate the brake lights ONLY when the brake pedal is pressed"--correct?

I would agree. One-pedal driving is the direct equivalent to using the brake pedal.
 

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It will do it in any gear dependent on gear ratio and engine rpm. Not to mention that it's completely legal to downshift a manual transmission to slow a vehicle and that doing so to control your speed has been taught in drivers education basically forever.
Firstly, using the transmission and the clutch to slow down is a bad idea simply from the standpoint of cost--and that's been taught forever. Why put wear on the expensive to replace friction part when you could instead wear out the cheap to replace friction part?

Nevertheless, you miss my point: there's an overall societal expectation of what "lifting off the gas" does and how it differs from "putting on the brakes".

When you perform an action in traffic that is what everyone commonly accepts as "braking," but you do so without any warning or indication whatsoever, that's bad.

Yes, I can slow down in traffic by shifting down from 5th to 4th to 3rd, etc, etc. But I'm not shifting from 5th to 2nd and dumping the clutch and performing what everyone would describe as a severe braking maneuver.

I could also put kill switches in line with my brake lights so that the cops can't see what I'm doing as I try to get away. There's a difference between "can" and "should".
 

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I really like L on my hybrid for the tailgaters. Makes them back off real quick. lol
 

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Can anyone shine a light on the use of Low gear on the shifter. Can I use this, along with the regenerative braking, for descending hills, and if so, what is the maximum speed I can switch to Low. Can't find much info in the owners manual. Thanks much
A lot of opinions out there huh?

I drive in L full time. In fact, just today I hit triple digits for the first time. I was in L

There's a use that hasn't been discussed. Using L to decelerate from unsafe speeds to not alarm the law with brake lights.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

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Firstly, using the transmission and the clutch to slow down is a bad idea simply from the standpoint of cost--and that's been taught forever. Why put wear on the expensive to replace friction part when you could instead wear out the cheap to replace friction part?

Nevertheless, you miss my point: there's an overall societal expectation of what "lifting off the gas" does and how it differs from "putting on the brakes".

When you perform an action in traffic that is what everyone commonly accepts as "braking," but you do so without any warning or indication whatsoever, that's bad.

Yes, I can slow down in traffic by shifting down from 5th to 4th to 3rd, etc, etc. But I'm not shifting from 5th to 2nd and dumping the clutch and performing what everyone would describe as a severe braking maneuver.

I could also put kill switches in line with my brake lights so that the cops can't see what I'm doing as I try to get away. There's a difference between "can" and "should".
There is essentially no wear if you know how to shift a clutch. I have driven manual vehicles hundreds of thousands of miles including years on the racetrack and replaced maybe two clutches. If you know how to match revs and are gentle there is nearly no slip at all. In mountainous driving downshifting is a must as you’ll overheat your brakes.

FWIW driving the PacHy in L mode makes it drive an awful lot like how our 80’s manual sports car drives in that I don’t have to be on the brake pedal nearly so much because simply lifting off causes enough drag - whether electric or ICE, to slow the vehicle whether in traffic or on a hill. While I’d have to drive it again to see exactly how closely, my impression is also that the max regen level of the PacHy in L is right around the level that my parent‘s Model S turns on the brake lights (in other words, there is a threshold in the Tesla below which you are lifting off, regenerating and slowing but the brake lights are not on). I’m sure that the decision not to activate the brake lights wasn’t made at random.
 

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There is essentially no wear if you know how to shift a clutch. I have driven manual vehicles hundreds of thousands of miles including years on the racetrack and replaced maybe two clutches.
Yes, my 07 HHR has a 5-speed manual transmission. Over 200,000 miles original factory AC Delco clutch disc, pressure plate, slave cylinder, master cylinder, and throwout bearing. Everything runs just like the day I got it. On the HHR forums, some Duffus was changing his factory clutch kit every 30,000 miles. He said it was for peace of mind.....
 

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In mountainous driving downshifting is a must as you’ll overheat your brakes.
which is the whole point of L in our Pacifica vans, ICE or hybrid.
 
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