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2020 Voyager LXi 2018 Pacifica Touring Plus
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Gotta love it when you read a response and it’s all in lower case and capitals , and yes no ice vehicles have ever died or ignited in history. Wonder where all the tow trucks are taking those vehicles , hmmm, not only is your grammar misaligned but your cerebral impulses are a tad misguided .
Lol that’s all you have is a remark about my grammar? I bet you’re a really fun person to be around. I feel sorry for all of your family members that have to put up with you
 

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2020 Voyager LXi 2018 Pacifica Touring Plus
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Gotta love it when you read a response and it’s all in lower case and capitals , and yes no ice vehicles have ever died or ignited in history. Wonder where all the tow trucks are taking those vehicles , hmmm, not only is your grammar misaligned but your cerebral impulses are a tad misguided .
Lol. Two extra words are capitalized. Oh, and by the way, your reply is two run-on sentences. 💀
 

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2022 Pacifica Limited Hybrid
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Ok thanks. For some reason I thought a hybrid would do better than my Subaru which also gets 28 highway
Pacifica gas 9 speed is rated 28mpg highway. Pacifica hybrid is rated 30mpg highway. The interior space is about double a large Subaru, and it weighs at least 1/2 ton more. Hybrid technology does little to increase efficiency on a level or gently-sloped highway, as it does not allow power regeneration on downhill sections to recapture energy that would be otherwise lost. Efficiency increases with a hybrid under and conditions that require braking, stop and go or idling. My hybrid Pacifica has 2400 miles on it, yet I have not used a tank of gas in 3 months. It costs 4-1/2 cents per mile to operate on electric. I care most about my typical day to day cost of ownership and efficiency results, not a single day long road trip that I might have once per year. I bought my last tank of gas in March and the gas gauge still shows full. Over 85% of my use is on electric wall outlet charge power. The mpg gauge currently shows over 83mpg. Also take note that my Pacifica shows 21 miles of battery remaining and 57% battery remaining. That equates to 37 mile range. I frequently run over 40 miles on the battery and never get under 35. I’m really looking forward to only having to buy a few tank of gas per year. I’m paying less for fuel than I did in the early 80’s driving a 2.3L Ford econobox with cramped rear seat, no A/C and manual 5 speed.
Speedometer Vehicle Motor vehicle Steering part Tachometer
 

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2020 Voyager LXi 2018 Pacifica Touring Plus
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Your ability to get insanely and inappropriately defensive over the PACHY is quite astounding.
He can’t help it. 90% of the posts in here have him as one of the top 3 ppl to reply first. it’s normally something about telling the OP to have their message deleted bc it’s a repeat, that a certain modification someone did to personalize their van is going to void the warranty, or how putting different tires on the van is going to throw it out of alignment and destroy your paint. He’s on here so much he must have no life 💀
 

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The MPG of all cars depends on the speed at which the car is driven, but more so with hybrid cars. This is because the wind drag force is proportional to the squared of the can speed, as opposed to the linear speed.

If the wind drag is the main force that the car must overcome, here is the calculated Pacifica mpg vs mph in its hybrid mode; and my 2020 Pacifica hybrid closely follows the number on relatively flat highways (e.g. from Maryland to Florida along the I-95). So if your 28 mpg is from driving at around 70 mph, it is right inline with my experience.

On mountainous highways (e.g. from Maryland through Pennsylvania) the overall mpg is lower because the Pacifica hybrid is quite heavy at over 5,000lb, the engine must work extra hard (and burn extra fuel) uphill; downhill coasting does not quite offset the extra fuel burned on uphill as we typically need to apply brakes to comply with the speed limits.

View attachment 50130 View attachment 50131
My experience driving from Maryland to Florida matches yours. I seem to average a little bit better, but the overall curve is correct. Earlier this year I drove along the Florida panhandle- a flat, low speed road with few traffic lights. 46 MPG gas only.
Speed and driving style greatly affect the fuel consumption. Read Car and Driver reviews- those guys drive hard and fast, they never get even close to the official ratings.
 

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Interesting. So the only thing the hybrid brings to the table is the ability to go 35 miles on pure electric. I assume you can set it to use pure electric until depleted? My rental did not do that but I didnt get into the software settings.
Remember the Hybrid also gets 30 mpg city stop-and-go traffic.


This matters for my wife as our 2018 gas-only Pacifica got really, really bad gas mileage in the winter. Like 13-15 MPG city stop-and-go (I think a few weeks the computer said 13 MPG... and everyone knows the computer is optimistic.... no remote start usage either). Waaaaay below EPA. In the summer it struggled to hit 18 MPG, most often 16-17 MPG.

19 MPG EPA was a flat-out lie.

Mostly because EPA take into account the stop-and-go start system which:
  1. Doesn't even function in the winter because the engine is needed to make heat. The V6 is a gas guzzler without being turned off.
  2. Just plain sucks, the stop-start battery breaks, and then the system doesn't work anymore (we had our brand-new custom ordered never sat on the lot 2018 stop-start battery break in the 1st year and replaced under warranty).

Winter does hit the PacHy, but not nearly as bad, seems to fall to 24-25 (I'm talking winter, here it gets to -10F, and -30 with wind chill). The van can still turn off at a stoplight because the heat is electric (even with the battery at "0"%).


edit: Remember EPA MPG is designed to fool the brain. We humans have a hard time telling the difference between two large numbers. That's why Europe rates cars in Liters per 100 kilometers. We should really use Gallons Per Hundred miles (GPH).

13 MPG = 7.7 GPH - My Gas-only worst-case observed
15 MPG = 6.7 GPH - My Gas real-world case
19 MPG = 5.3 GPH - Gas EPA
25 MPG = 4.0 GPH - Hybrid worst-case
30 MPG = 3.3 GPH - Hybrid EPA

GPH math is a lot easier to see that the PacHy saves you anywhere between 2.0-3.7 gallons ($10-18) per 100 miles of city driving.

Our van is pretty much used to take the kids to daycare, and then my wife to work, and then pick the kids up, and go home. About 20 miles a day in a medium city. But that's 20 miles five days a week, for a year, 5,000 miles a year. That means take the gallon savings and multiply them by 50 (5000 / 100 miles).

PacHy even without the electric savings saves us $700 a year.

Granted, you can get the same savings with a Toyota Sienna Hybrid, which was our #2 pick, but in 2020 Sienna Hybrid Limiteds were going for $45,000 and we only paid $30,600 for our PacHy Limited after the tax credit in 2020.
 

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So I rented a 2021 hybrid in Boise this weekend. After two days of driving my average was 28 mpg, mostly highway. I expected 40. Were my expectations too high?
The hybrid does around 30. As the non hybrid van never reaches over 25 in general. The hybrid does great in town city start stop traffic and exceptional if plugged in daily. I can get 900 mile at 54 mpg if I plug in daily and use for general city driving. Highway and not plugged in to charge you will not see that mpg. The plug in miles 30-35 miles from a charge increase mpg and overall mileage dramatically. But all Highway no charge is hybrid and gets 30mpg
Much better then the gas version.
 

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I just got 34.5 on a 2 lane road at 55, for about a half hour of driving.
Dropped to 30.5 at 70 for the remainder of the 1.5 hour trip.
Plain old Pentastar engine!! AWD too.
I noticed a few times that I was turning 1,500 rpms at 70 on flat parts of the trip.
I was kind of curious what the real world gas mileage was for all-wheel drive on the Pacifica. EPA actually rates it lower than a Durango which had my head scratching going. Anybody else out there with an all-wheel drive have gas mileage figures?
 

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So I rented a 2021 hybrid in Boise this weekend. After two days of driving my average was 28 mpg, mostly highway. I expected 40. Were my expectations too high?
I get about 30-34mpg when traveling 60-70mph. 75+ and I get around 28-30mpg. The hybrid thrives around town. I usually get 35-40mpg when traveling 25-45mph through town with some stops and light hills. When I plug in, I usually get around 35-40 miles electric only with the same commute (50 miles daily) which is about 90-95mpge. When gas kicks on, I only use about 5-6 miles gas and 4-5 miles hybrid electric. So in my 50 mile trip I only use about 5-6 miles gas (summer months). One fill up (16 gallons) will easily last me 2000-2500 miles when also plugging in at night. Hopefully this information is helpful!
 

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2022 Pacifica Hybrid Limited, Fathom Blue ordered 10/30/21, built 12/08/21, delivered 12/23/21.
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My 2022 pachy has 4,500 miles on it so far spaning 3 months of regular below freezing weather. Approx 50/50 all electric vs hybrid miles and mostly used scheduled cabin conditioning in winter for best electric only range. Over this time we've averaged right around 40mpg hybrid and 70mpge.
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Interesting. So the only thing the hybrid brings to the table is the ability to go 35 miles on pure electric. I assume you can set it to use pure electric until depleted? My rental did not do that but I didnt get into the software settings.
I wouldn't say that's an "only".
My commute is 18 miles each way. If there is more traffic I can get to and from work on all electric. If there isn't the electric is less efficient at speed and I come up 3 or so miles short.


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So I rented a 2021 hybrid in Boise this weekend. After two days of driving my average was 28 mpg, mostly highway. I expected 40. Were my expectations too high?
When GM came out the with Chevy Volt, the idea was for someone with a short commute (roundtrip of 30 miles or so), they'd be able to go to work and back all week and never have to put gas in the car. But if they wanted to make a long trip, they had the gasoline engine for that. In other words, a car that would serve both purposes. I think the intent is not fantastic fuel economy, it's having some all-electric range for short trips and then the gasoline engine when you need/want it for longer trips.
 

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The EV charge and “electric only” feature will eventually catch up with some pachy owners, and the warranty battery replacement battles at 8 yrs and 100k mi should get interesting. The batteries are not going to last as long as a normal non-EV hybrid or an all electric EV because the batteries are being “cycled to death” when being fully charged and fully depleted almost daily. That is the only big drawback, as they are seeing 5x more battery cycles than a full EV Tesla or Mustang that only needs charged once a week to go 250 miles. Tesla batteries hold up well at 100k mi, a Pacifica that sees 80%+ electric use won’t. High charge cycle count results in battery death, period. Mark my words….
 

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The EV charge and “electric only” feature will eventually catch up with some pachy owners, and the warranty battery replacement battles at 8 yrs and 100k mi should get interesting. The batteries are not going to last as long as a normal non-EV hybrid or an all electric EV because the batteries are being “cycled to death” when being fully charged and fully depleted almost daily. That is the only big drawback, as they are seeing 5x more battery cycles than a full EV Tesla or Mustang that only needs charged once a week to go 250 miles. Tesla batteries hold up well at 100k mi, a Pacifica that sees 80%+ electric use won’t. High charge cycle count results in battery death, period. Mark my words….
Cycle matters, but depth of discharge matters a lot too.


PacHy battery is heavily managed. 16 kWh battery for the tax credit, but you can only use about 13 kWh (based on how much the charger puts in, as I believe others have measured here).

0% is NOT true 0. It's more like 25%.

100% is NOT true 100, it's more like 85-90%.
 

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Cycle matters, but depth of discharge matters a lot too.


PacHy battery is heavily managed. 16 kWh battery for the tax credit, but you can only use about 13 kWh (based on how much the charger puts in, as I believe others have measured here).

0% is NOT true 0. It's more like 25%.

100% is NOT true 100, it's more like 85-90%.
I’m going to strongly disagree with your claim that depth of charge and discharge matters more than full cycle count. I have been an Electrical Engineer for 40 years and responsible for Lithium battery systems. This statement you made is mostly “hope”, not fact. I get that, but you won’t get 5x more full cycles by simply trimming the max charge and discharge limits a bit more. Engineers already decided upon the optimal sweet spot for lithium useful voltage range, and further reducing it offers minimal incremental gains, not miracles. IMO, they are increasing life by no more than 2x by further tweaking it. Have you investigated what Tesla, Ford, GM and others have done to maximize battery life? FYI, they do the same (trim charge and discharge range to maximize cycle life) and virtually all marques have been doing so since before 2010, when it became general knowledge that reduced operating bandwidth “tricks” were being exploited to extend life in cars and other military, space and industrial apps that require extended lifecycle. By the way, this trick applies to all rechargeable batteries including your 1970 dodge lead acid battery. Other automotive companies are not treating their battery packs like a Chinese flashlight or ebike. I am comparing a Pacifica Hybrid battery lifecycle to another quality vehicle with greater range, not to some AliExpress RC car, geez. Chrysler has not found some magic way to increase battery full cycle count by 5x compared to a Ford, GM or Tesla. They all employ similar battery nanny aids. So, if the cycle count of a particular vehicle model is 5x greater because it’s battery range is 5x less, the useful battery life will potentially drop by about 5x. It is not rocket science, and Chrysler does not have some secret workaround. I have seen estimates suggesting that owners running their Pacifica on over 80% electric may lose 30-40% capacity by the time they reach warranty limit, and I believe it. The typical Pacifica owner who runs 50% gas or more will likely experience no issues. Teslas typically maintain over 95% range capacity at 100k miles, and the primary reason for this is the comparatively low full charge cycle count due to ample battery capacity. People trying to operate their Pacifica like an EV Tesla are going to experience premature battery degradation, long before the end of its useful life. Those who always recharge when they park the car rather than immediately before use will see even greater issues. A scheduled charging for use strategy with parking/storage below 50% is slightly helpful, but by no means a fix. For these reasons and others, I will be selling my Pacifica long before the battery warranty expires. It is a great car for the 1st owner, for the duration of a typical lease cycle. I’d buy a used one, if I was able to confirm the miles driven on electric were under 20k mi or so. To me, the miles driven on electric is more important than odometer miles, scratches, dents, options or color. Highway use Pacificas in the used car market with high odometer miles and low EV miles would be my pick, possibly even rental fleet or business use!
 

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Just to correct you a bit. The ONLY countries in the world that still use MPG are USA. Liberia and Thailand. ALL other 190 or so, use the metric system. Not just Europe.


edit: Remember EPA MPG is designed to fool the brain. We humans have a hard time telling the difference between two large numbers. That's why Europe rates cars in Liters per 100 kilometers. We should really use Gallons Per Hundred miles (GPH).
 
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Just to correct you a bit. The ONLY countries in the world that still use MPG are USA. Liberia and Thailand. ALL other 190 or so, use the metric system. Not just Europe.


edit: Remember EPA MPG is designed to fool the brain. We humans have a hard time telling the difference between two large numbers. That's why Europe rates cars in Liters per 100 kilometers. We should really use Gallons Per Hundred miles (GPH).
Yea, talk about fooling the brain. If I drive 1000 miles to Florida and average 10mpg, then turn around and drive 1000 miles back home and get 20 mpg for the return leg, the average gas mileage for the round trip is only 13.33mpg! About 99% of the world assumes the average is 15mpg which is wrong. Quantity of fuel used per unit distance is the proper measure.
 

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I’m going to strongly disagree with your claim that depth of charge and discharge matters more than full cycle count. I have been an Electrical Engineer for 40 years and responsible for Lithium battery systems. This statement you made is mostly “hope”, not fact. I get that, but you won’t get 5x more full cycles by simply trimming the max charge and discharge limits a bit more.
....
I'm sure the fact that we cycle the small battery more for a given mileage means that it will deteriorate faster. Is it 5x as fast? No idea. But what I do know is that you paid 5x more for that battery in the Tesla to begin with. (And, actually, if you wanted the same range in a minivan as in a Tesla you'd actually need a 10x battery since the efficiency of the minivan is roughly half.) Cost-wise I'm pretty sure you come out on top not paying for, and dragging around, a 100+kWh battery if all you do are <30mile days.

But it will be very interesting to see what kind of deterioration they will try to get away with as "normal".
 

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Remember the Hybrid also gets 30 mpg city stop-and-go traffic.


This matters for my wife as our 2018 gas-only Pacifica got really, really bad gas mileage in the winter. Like 13-15 MPG city stop-and-go (I think a few weeks the computer said 13 MPG... and everyone knows the computer is optimistic.... no remote start usage either). Waaaaay below EPA. In the summer it struggled to hit 18 MPG, most often 16-17 MPG.

19 MPG EPA was a flat-out lie.

Mostly because EPA take into account the stop-and-go start system which:
  1. Doesn't even function in the winter because the engine is needed to make heat. The V6 is a gas guzzler without being turned off.
  2. Just plain sucks, the stop-start battery breaks, and then the system doesn't work anymore (we had our brand-new custom ordered never sat on the lot 2018 stop-start battery break in the 1st year and replaced under warranty).

Winter does hit the PacHy, but not nearly as bad, seems to fall to 24-25 (I'm talking winter, here it gets to -10F, and -30 with wind chill). The van can still turn off at a stoplight because the heat is electric (even with the battery at "0"%).


edit: Remember EPA MPG is designed to fool the brain. We humans have a hard time telling the difference between two large numbers. That's why Europe rates cars in Liters per 100 kilometers. We should really use Gallons Per Hundred miles (GPH).

13 MPG = 7.7 GPH - My Gas-only worst-case observed
15 MPG = 6.7 GPH - My Gas real-world case
19 MPG = 5.3 GPH - Gas EPA
25 MPG = 4.0 GPH - Hybrid worst-case
30 MPG = 3.3 GPH - Hybrid EPA

GPH math is a lot easier to see that the PacHy saves you anywhere between 2.0-3.7 gallons ($10-18) per 100 miles of city driving.

Our van is pretty much used to take the kids to daycare, and then my wife to work, and then pick the kids up, and go home. About 20 miles a day in a medium city. But that's 20 miles five days a week, for a year, 5,000 miles a year. That means take the gallon savings and multiply them by 50 (5000 / 100 miles).

PacHy even without the electric savings saves us $700 a year.

Granted, you can get the same savings with a Toyota Sienna Hybrid, which was our #2 pick, but in 2020 Sienna Hybrid Limiteds were going for $45,000 and we only paid $30,600 for our PacHy Limited after the tax credit in 2020.
Boy, your gas mileage on the non-hybrid is horrible. My experience is entirely different. My wife used our 2019 Pacifica non-hybrid 9spd on short stop and go city grocery and school routes and it never showed less than 22 mph. So as for your statement that 19mpg is a lie and unachievable I say hogwash. You had a bad spark plug or something lol. We consistently beat the EPA city rating by 10% or more. Our previous 2008 Dodge Grand Caravan 6spd with 3.8L OHV got only 17 mpg on the exact same duty, a whopping 5mpg less, and it was short about 80 horsepower lol. My wife also drives a much smaller 2.0L turbo eco boost Ford Fusion sedan on the identical routes and it gets 21mpg, clearly and consistently less efficient. I think the Pacifica v6 is incredibly efficient and powerful for such a huge, heavy vehicle. PS: my wife continually mashes the throttle and brake when she drives, I don’t. She got 21 mpg or better in the city, I consistently bested her, getting closer to 23 mph in city stop and go use. However she is the primary driver. Our hybrid gets 32 to 35 mph in hybrid mode with 0% charge, doesn’t seem to matter if it’s city or highway. It will drop under 32mpg if you exceed 70 mph on level ground.
 

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Boy, your gas mileage on the non-hybrid is horrible. My experience is entirely different. My wife used our 2019 Pacifica non-hybrid 9spd on short stop and go city grocery and school routes and it never showed less than 22 mph. So as for your statement that 19mpg is a lie and unachievable I say hogwash. You had a bad spark plug or something lol. We consistently beat the EPA city rating by 10% or more. Our previous 2008 Dodge Grand Caravan 6spd with 3.8L OHV got only 17 mpg on the exact same duty, a whopping 5mpg less, and it was short about 80 horsepower lol. My wife also drives a much smaller 2.0L turbo eco boost Ford Fusion sedan on the identical routes and it gets 21mpg, clearly and consistently less efficient. I think the Pacifica v6 is incredibly efficient and powerful for such a huge, heavy vehicle. PS: my wife continually mashes the throttle and brake when she drives, I don’t. She got 21 mpg or better in the city, I consistently bested her, getting closer to 23 mph in city stop and go use. However she is the primary driver. Our hybrid gets 32 to 35 mph in hybrid mode with 0% charge, doesn’t seem to matter if it’s city or highway. It will drop under 32mpg if you exceed 70 mph on level ground.
I'm not going to argue with you, but are you sure your 22mpg wasn't mixed usage?


The EPA cycle every auto maker games to death. If they advertise 19mpg city you really shouldn't be getting more than 19mpg. Automakers are literally allowed to set it up in the best possible scenario.

Either you are traveling on long 45 mph roads (some larger cities have 45+ mph feeder roads which is more highway than anything), or you are counting some highway use in your trip odometer.


My wife's usage was literally 5 miles down a 30-35mph road with 6-7 stoplights. 4 times a day. Absolutely zero highway or speeds in excess of 40 mph. Often for several weeks straight since she was just taking the kids to daycare and working from home (ironic). The literal definition of City EPA mileage. Also my city has poorly synchronized stop lights.

So pretty much whatever was on our trip average fuel economy was pure city mileage.
 
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