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Sorry for the late reply. I work in healthcare, so you can imagine how slow it's been lately. :)

To clarify, I was referring to used ICE Pacificas, which is why I mentioned "gassers". If you don't mind buying a previous rental, I've seen 2018 Limiteds are Hertz for 23k and less and 2019 Touring Ls for <20 k. Dealers typically have similar vehicles or 1.5-2 k more. That's why I was saying it's hard to justify spending close to 40k AFTER rebates (taxes and registration are a bear here in Cali) when I can get a 1-2 yo model with 40 k miles for half that. I love the idea of a plug in hybrid but I love the idea of saving 20 k more. I could never make up the difference in saved fuel.
It sounds like you're comparing used ICE vs new hybrid? What's the difference of used ICE vs used hybrid? The tax rebate should also depress the used prices for hybrids since if the differential is too small, people will buy a new one instead. (Although I guess used hybrids are hard to find everywhere?)
 

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Well if you look at features of rentals vs one owner you can’t compare . I personally would never buy a rental due to the driving style and treatment of it . Pull up a carfax on any used vehicle and when you see rental you automatically pass . Warranties from factory also isolate claims . When I drove the ice version back ehybrid version it was a no brainer ( powertrain , mileage , govt cut me a 14000 dollar cheque ( Ontario Canada 🇨🇦) and my cost of the vehicle was cheaper than a ice . I drive it and plug it in and charge for free ( yeah Ontario ) . Only think I did was put oem factory 20’s on it and hitch . Here in winter on my snow tires I’m getting 35 mpg , won’t get that in a ice version . So in my case I’m driving it really for next to nothing . Gas here is around 60 cents litre but to charge it is zero . Even to plug in at home is not a big cost , I thank Fca for building it as if I wanted a full on electric I’d buy a model X Tesla ( the only way that works financially is free lifetime supercharging ) . I can also drive alone in HOV lanes , plug in spots and helping the earth one step at a time. Driving a ice would have zero benefit for me .
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I like filling up in my own driveway. Your point is well taken though, with gas in many states at 99cents/gallon, there is no good FINANCIAL reason to buy a PacHy or any other EV. We know that most people buy cars based on affordability and need.

Post Corona will change all that I'll bet - just wait.Big changes are coming.
 

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i Agree to disagree . Gas is cheap and all the affordability is there , but when gas shoots up again the affordability plummets . I prefer to roll the dice on the side of caution , cheaper electricity , free charging and cheap gas . No matter what , once you have driven ehybrid you realize the dollar savings cheap gas or not . The pendulum has swung , question is just for how long though.
 

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That the lowest price in the USA is $1.77/gallon as of today, and .69C CDN/liter in Toronto?

US Average Gas Prices by State

Oil price war will certainly make a major dent in (PH)EV sales.
I live in Detroit Michigan. Today 3/26/2020 I filled up for $1.19 gal. (You read that right 1.19) Most other stations here are at $1.42.
 

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Here's the thing about low gas prices impacting the sales of high fuel mileage vehicles: back in the sixties when gas was like $0.30/gallon, the Volkswagen Beetle's best year was 1968 when nearly 400k were sold in the US. The point is that, even when gas is cheap and plentiful, there's still a market for fuel efficient vehicles. Maybe not as great, but they still sell.
 

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Yeah I checked my app for sams club gas stations in Michigan and seen 1.14 to 1.27 to 1.45 . Gas is cheap , hence the reason I like having best both worlds . Problem is when have over 3 million people on unemployment it becomes a needs vs wants market . Gas last nite in Toronto Canada 🇨🇦 was .59 cents litre . Problem is everything is locked down and really no where to go . And last thing people are thinking about right now is buying cars .
 

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The effect of gas price depends severely on how much you have to drive. Neither of us drive to/from work, so we use <$50 of gas per month even with Hawaii $3.50/gal prices. (Before we had to do daycare dropoff/pickup it was $25/month.) It's just not enough to worry about compared to the purchase price of a car. If you have a daily commute of 50 miles, on the other hand...
 

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It sounds like you're comparing used ICE vs new hybrid? What's the difference of used ICE vs used hybrid? The tax rebate should also depress the used prices for hybrids since if the differential is too small, people will buy a new one instead. (Although I guess used hybrids are hard to find everywhere?)
I’m in the Bay Area of California, so high population density. There’s a grand total of 8 used Pachys within 500 miles. That covers south to San Diego and over the Oregon border north. Those available run about 10k more than their gasser equivalents. The Pachy should be more popular but isn’t.


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The ehybrid was never meant to be a mass seller . The reason it was brought to public was its ability to appease the public’s “ we only sell gas guzzler V8 ideology “ . Also , waymo purchased them for the self driving fleet so any extra buyer credits help offset their corporate fuel economy misses. They kept buying credits from TESLA to lessen their payout . Do I think FCA is in a position to manufacture a full on electric vehicle “ aka portal “ ?, nope . I believe you will see more plug ins , wrangler , grand Cherokee , Cherokee, ram , Durango , but you won’t see a full on electric vehicle . I kinda like being the guy who pulls in and plugs up and have share my stories with fellow ev owners . I believe if FCA was going down the be route they would have electrified the 2021 AWD version . It’s just a option and not a stand alone version anymore . We will see different engines , straight 6 , turbo 6 , twin turbo 6’s before we see a full on electric vehicle from them .
 

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I would have purchased a 2020 Hybrid Limited if it had the same features as the ICE version. It didn't. 2021 looks to solve that problem. I'm not sure that is the reason it didn't sell in large volumes, but it should help. A top of the line Hybrid 2021 looks good to me, but I'm on a 8-10 yr purchase cycle so I'll have to live with the ICE for a while :)
 

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Depends. The newer Volvo’s are 4 cylinder only, even with the 7 seater XC90, turbo and super-charged putting out up to 316 hp. A fantastic engine. Not that Toyota will follow suit but a guy can dream. It’s amazing what manufacturers are putting out these days.


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That I def wouldn’t touch , the longevity of a motor like that , not to mention the cost to fix that down the road . Any motor that has to use turbo and supercharger , just ask ford about their Ecoboost , never sees any sort of advertised mileage with a load or strained. Not to mention to obtain horsepower had to use premium gas .
 

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I don’t base my purchases on 0-60 . Ask the ford boys how that 2.7 4 cyl or gm how that 2.0 l turbo is working in their trucks . A plug in hybrid or not 4 cyl with all that weight is pretty useless . Let’s see when have 6 people and luggage and have to pass or make a evasive manoeuvre how that 4 cyl will get it done . If worried about gas mileage buy a model x then just supercharge it . I’d sooner give Elon my money than drive a 4 cyl turbo that uses premium gas . Oh crap , bet the salesman forgot to mention gas and maintenance ...lol
 

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I don’t base my purchases on 0-60 . Ask the ford boys how that 2.7 4 cyl or gm how that 2.0 l turbo is working in their trucks . A plug in hybrid or not 4 cyl with all that weight is pretty useless . Let’s see when have 6 people and luggage and have to pass or make a evasive manoeuvre how that 4 cyl will get it done . If worried about gas mileage buy a model x then just supercharge it . I’d sooner give Elon my money than drive a 4 cyl turbo that uses premium gas . Oh crap , bet the salesman forgot to mention gas and maintenance ...lol
You didn't get a chance to look at the RAV4 Plug-In Hybrid's powertrain? It doesn't use a turbo. It uses 2 electric motors. Combined horsepower is 302. So a Sienna with that powertrain should have similar performance to the PacHy with a V6 and one electric motor.
 
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