Something I've seen in many other PHEVs is the option for the driver to select an electric only mode so that the vehicle is forced to use it's rechargeable batteries until it's depleted. I've expected that to be an update for the 2021 model year but it doesn't seem like that's the case.
I just don't see any reason why Chrysler can't implement such an option into the uConnect interface (if not a physical button).
I currently own an Odyssey, and as reliable as she is, I would definitely hop on the Chrysler bandwagon if I could guarantee a certain amount of electric only driving on my numerous short trips.
I've extensively researched and love the idea of the PacHy, but with so many folks complaining that it unnecessarily fires up the ICE even with significant charge remaining, I'm skeptical.
The bottom line is: If the vehicle is a PHEV then the driver should be able to toggle that electric only driving, otherwise it's just no different from a regular hybrid.
Agree? Disagree? Am I asking for too much?
I think the issue of the ICE coming on is overblown. I think the majority of it running is due to freezing temperatures. I really haven't had problems with it where I live. There is a hybrid screen that tells you how much power is the electric motor and how much is the ICE. Just keep the electric motor under 80 kW and it will run in EV mode. I think you just have to get used to it. See if you get a long test drive.
I owned a Prius Prime before and do wish the PacHy drove in EV more like that. I think Volt owners will feel the same way.
I think the issue of the ICE coming on is overblown. I think the majority of it running is due to freezing temperatures. I really haven't had problems with it where I live. There is a hybrid screen that tells you how much power is the electric motor and how much is the ICE. Just keep the electric motor under 80 kW and it will run in EV mode. I think you just have to get used to it. See if you get a long test drive.
I owned a Prius Prime before and do wish the PacHy drove in EV more like that. I think Volt owners will feel the same way.
Thanks for the feedback, and impressive Fuelly stats btw. Your mpg is off the charts! I just worry it may be too difficult to replicate that here in Canada.
We have about 30k electric miles. The ICE only comes on with residual charge when three things occur.
1) It's very cold outside, and the restive heaters in the front and back cannot keep up with the temp setting that is set. The computer uses the waste heat from the ICE to warm the cabin. 198 degree coolant does this rather quickly, then it shuts off for the duration until either temps drop, or charge is depleted.
2) You give it more throttle than the electric motor is capable of generating, so the ICE kicks in to keep you from getting rear ended, etc. You only have about 100hp from the electric drivetrain, but it feels like more because of all the torque. Asking for more, means the ICE can come online to make the other 178 or so.
3) The car has been in electric only for so long that it feels it needs to run the ICE to keep the fluids mixed, and gas fresh in the injectors. We can go a month without use of the ICE so have seen this a few times.
Other than those three things, ours only comes on when the battery is totally drained. Seems like I'd like to know the opposite, why can we not force ICE operation if we are going on a highway trip and save the battery miles for the end of the trip in city driving where it is more efficient. The van only wants to be and EV when charged.
I would love to see a mode for running on gas, and charging the batteries. For example, the electric is used up, and I am driving on the highway, and know I will soon be doing a bunch of stop and go city driving. It would be nice to tell it to charge, so I will have electric for the stop and go.
That would be a waste of energy. Its much more efficient to use the ICE when the battery is drained. It does seem to keep the battery at around 1%. Breaking will charge the battery. Often in stop and go there is enough energy in the battery to start electric from a standstill and then switch to ICE.
Personally I wouldn't have much use for a gas only mode, but I wouldn't knock against those wanting to have it, 'cause you never know when you might find application for it. Off the top of my head; suppose you run into an issue with your electric motor(s), wouldn't it be great to be able to completely turn them off until you can fix them so you don't risk exacerbating the damage or jeopardizing other components? What if you're on a track and want to test the performance of the vehicle with the ICE only? What if you live in a region where it's actually more economically sensible to buy gas than to plug in your vehicle because of the cost/availability of electricity (yes there are such places) but you still want some electric only driving from time to time?
Having the option would not be a "waste of energy" but rather endless possibilities, in fact it already exists in Toyota's upcoming RAV4 Prime, they're calling it "Charging Mode". And speaking of Toyota, the Hybrid Sienna will actually have an EV button! Given that it's not a PHEV but a traditional hybrid that's only going to be good for 1-2 miles of electric only driving, but at least the option is going to be there. C'mon Chrysler, get with the program!
That would be a waste of energy. Its much more efficient to use the ICE when the battery is drained. It does seem to keep the battery at around 1%. Breaking will charge the battery. Often in stop and go there is enough energy in the battery to start electric from a standstill and then switch to ICE.
In highway driving with the EV App running, you will see the batteries being changed when you are going down hill. It will use that going up the next hill or in stop and go traffic when you exit. I imagine that they manage to ICE very closely, dumping any excess energy into the batteries. I'd love to hear the engineers describe how it all works!
After 3 years of driving my PacHy, it almost always uses up the EV range first. As in, I don't ever recall it using the gas engine while I have charge on the batteries unless I floor the accelerator. So I don't see any need for an "electric mode" button... plus if your HV battery is depleted, the button wouldn't work.
I can see the argument to choose "ICE mode" for highway driving and save your EV range for city traffic, but I probably wouldn't pay extra for that.
In cold temperatures (below about 36F), the ICE always runs for some period of time. The idea of a button isn't always about using the battery first, sometimes you want to use the battery last. My commute is 4 miles of slower roads (good for electric) then 30 miles of highway (better for ICE/hybrid), followed by 10 miles of slower roads (better for battery). If I had it, I would disable forcing battery depletion during highway driving.
I could see value in the ability to control when the battery is used, as @Vantastic describes.
Nirvana would be an automatic system that optimizes battery use based on your route combined with live traffic reports. Sprinkle in a little AI, and it could guess what route you will take based on your daily commute.
The only use case I can see for a charging mode if you there were some way to make use of the power at your destination, similar to what the Nikola truck is going to do; allowing power tool use at a job site. Its rather inefficient, as the ICE itself is only about 25 to 30% efficient, but not that much different from firing up a generator.
considering a '21 Hybrid. from what it sounds like it will stay in EV mode unless HARD acceleration, very low battery, or cold temps? We really want a full EV but need 7+ seater and the Model X is too expensive. Most of our driving is around town, 20mi round trip tops. for that scenario it sounds like we will be in EV mode 90% of the time? We have good charging access in our garage so I am willing to be diligent about charging.
Sounds about right, and also when the engine hasn't ran after long period of time. Sometimes the engine will come on with medium acceleration as well. Especially when you are slowing down and then pushing on the accelerator.
Would you consider a new 2020 Hybrid Limited if you can get it for $10,000 less than a 2021?
After driving the van at highway speeds on battery power, the need for a switch is overrated. It's relevant for hybrid applications like Toyota. Chrysler needs to do a better job of displaying and advertising their true capabilities in contrast to the rest of the vehicles in its class or competition. There are people like me that were cross-shopping SUVs vs the PacHy.
I respectfully and strongly disagree with you on that one bud. Overrated is the suggestion that a feature that literally all hybrid vehicles are capable of doing by default which is seamlessly using an electric motor and ICE in tandem is a great feat. If you see the "seamless and automatic" trait as anything more than jargon you're only kidding yourself. I don't know about you but I'd define "true capabilities" as being able to push the accelerator pedal as hard as I'd like to pass someone or reach said Highway speeds using ONLY the electric motors if I so please (or only the ICE for that matter). "True capabilities" would be a eAWD system in that PHEV so you can go electric in even rough/slippery conditions. "True capabilities" would be paddle/gear shifters instead of a silly knob so I can manage my regen braking. "True capabilities" would be shifting the battery pack back a slight bit more so the Hybrid retains Chrysler's exclusive stow n go second row. Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of where Chrysler is going with the PacHy, just not kidding myself that it's a great van already. If you were truly cross-shopping with SUVs you would have landed on the Highlander Hybrid or even better the RAV4 Prime. Just saying.
All 3 of my boys are growing rapidly and we couldn't wait any longer, or we would have gone directly to the Rivian. Owning a Toyota Prius v, I believe the Chrysler Hybrid drivetrain delivers a better overall product. And, in totality, the Chrysler delivers a better value, as it still qualifies for the $7,500 tax credit: it's buying an ICE and getting the hybrid for free. To echo my wife, it looks better too. I'm not a fan of 4WD/AWD unless you absolutely need it: more moving parts to require more maintenance, more fuel, and additional parts to break. I haven't been in any on-road conditions where I wished for AWD, maybe more ground clearance in a blizzard.
The Rivian R1S will give you the same space as the Explorer PHEV. I'm guessing you're willing to compromise on space/utility for electric range. Also I dunno what Toyota is thinking sticking a 4-cylinder in a minivan, so yes drivetrain or efficiency wise you've made an excellent choice with the PacHy. It's a good van, but not yet great.
From the Rivian R1S photos you can see there is more room in the access to the third row, and it's not rounded off in the back decreasing headspace and cargo volume. I've also chatted with someone in Normal that's had eyes on the actual test vehicles that confirms the third row is large enough for adults.
I live 36 miles from Normal, and went to a preview showing there last year. We got to nose around several production ready prototypes, and you're right, the third row is fine for average size adults.
Ahh, yes I see. Third row volume plus eco friendly. Much like the recently introduced Jeep Grand Wagoneer which will have a PHEV variant. There's also rumors of a Grand Highlander in the works. Ford is also said to follow suit with the Explorer's big brother, the Expedition and their luxury brand Lincoln Navigator. But all those we have to wait on.
Before I test drove it, I was disappointed as well that it didn't have an "EV mode" button, like most of you guys. However, the van is very aggressive in switching back to electric mode as soon as it can. When you have charge (and it's not freezing***), it'll always be in "EV mode" unless you accelerate pretty hard (slightly beyond what I'd call normal). And when you don't have charge, it'll stop the engine as soon as you're decelerating, stopped or going slow.
Also, I think trying to keep electric range for later will end up consuming more fuel overall: in city driving, you always regenerate electricity when you're braking, and that's much more efficient when your battery is "empty". I'm pretty sure you end up with more electric kilometers that way.
I've test-driven the Sienna, which does have an "EV mode" button, and it's not that great, honestly. Just getting out of the dealer's parking lot (not a hard acceleration at all), it said "Accelerator pressed too hard, dropping out of EV mode". The same maneuver in the Pacifica was done 100% electric, and more.
*** About freezing temps: the important temperature is the one outside the car. If you keep it in a heated garage (above 4°C), it shouldn't start the engine.
After a year of use, I had kind of put this issue to rest in my mind, despite frequently wishing that I could use a battery save or EV mode while on the road. But now I see that the same company is able to recognize the need and implement the solution in another vehicle. I see that all Jeep 4xe models have exactly what we've been wishing for. They even conjured up some marketing jargon for it. They call it E-Selec, and it gives the driver a choice of Hybrid, Electric and eSave modes. So I guess this brings us back to the FCA opinion of their minivan driving customer intellect, and our presumed inability to walk and chew gum. I wonder if there's any hope of a UConnect firmware update that adds this feature.
Coming from a Honda Clarity which has an HV mode button that enables hybrid operation (otherwise the car mostly remains in EV mode unless you accelerate hard), I would greatly appreciate the E-Selec feature, esp. the E-Save mode. Highway driving eats battery charge rather quickly, so being able to preserve charge by switching to gas engine operation on the highway would help to extend the usable range of the battery.
Totally agree. So many times I've watched my battery disappear on the highway where ICE is more efficient, and then get back into city driving with no battery left for stop-and-go. And as carefully as I modulate throttle, still manage to trigger ICE on acceleration sometimes.
Maybe, and I hope so, but I seem to remember reading in the early days of the PacHy that Chrysler wasn't targeting the EV enthusiast with the PacHy, rather the typical "soccer mom" (or dad) who just wanted an uncomplicated vehicle that would be great on gas for making all those short trips around the house. Perhaps Stellantis will conclude that their audience has acquired enough EV sophisitcation that warrants additional complexity, but I kinda doubt it, because their target audience probably won't. Most owners probably don't care enough, even though we do.
Anyone who can figure out the multiple driver profiles on the Uconnect interface could handle three drive modes . For that matter, I think understanding the drive selector options of D and L present a much higher test of intuition and curiosity than additional drive modes would.
I would certainly like E-Selec buttons , but I'm afraid that unless Chrysler determines that adding it will translate into more $ in their pockets, it isn't likely to happen, and that is a shame.
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