[willrobinson]

We have had our PacHy for four days, and I have concerns about the range and mileage we are seeing. I will try to post a longer description tonight, but the gist of it is, the van is reporting a hybrid (gas) range of only 391 miles on a full tank. That is far below the advertised 533. My wife took a road trip this weekend, and the van reported averaging only 26.2 MPG over about 550 miles. But even that MPG would yield a range of 430 hybrid miles (16.5 gallon tank capacity * 26.2). Beyond that, when she got to work this morning, it showed that she had driven 12 hybrid miles, but the hybrid range had dropped 29 miles (391 down to 362). The only firm conclusion I can draw is that the on-board mileage and range calculations are not accurate. My concern is that the gas mileage may not be anything close to the 32 MPG advertised. I did not make my wife write down the number of gallons she put in the tank on her trip, so I have not done a manual calculation yet, but I will try to do that tonight. If anyone else can post their experiences/observations, that would be really helpful. Also, I originally started a similar thread (titled "Hybrid Range") in the PacHy General forum, but another member alerted me that it should be here - I'm hoping I can get some feedback from other owners so I can understand if it's me, my PacHy, all PacHys, or just the on-board calculations.

 

[snorth]

With the Chevy Volt, we call the range estimate the "guess-o-meter". The computer is calculating your estimated range left based on your prior driving habits. It is an estimate, and probably will become more accurate the more you drive it. On the other hand, if you frequently switch drivers, and those drivers have very different styles of driving, it may still struggle to provide that estimate.

That said, it's a brand new vehicle, so complain to Chrysler. Who knows, maybe they can release a software patch to improve it, or maybe there actually is something mechanically wrong with your specific vehicle.

 

[vossman77]

Remember the AC/heat (mostly heat) will draw a lot of power from the battery as well. So, that is something else to keep track of.

 

[mickeyboat]

We have had our PacHy for four days, and I have concerns about the range and mileage we are seeing. I will try to post a longer description tonight, but the gist of it is, the van is reporting a hybrid (gas) range of only 391 miles on a full tank. That is far below the advertised 533. My wife took a road trip this weekend, and the van reported averaging only 26.2 MPG over about 550 miles. But even that MPG would yield a range of 430 hybrid miles (16.5 gallon tank capacity * 26.2). Beyond that, when she got to work this morning, it showed that she had driven 12 hybrid miles, but the hybrid range had dropped 29 miles (391 down to 362). The only firm conclusion I can draw is that the on-board mileage and range calculations are not accurate. My concern is that the gas mileage may not be anything close to the 32 MPG advertised. I did not make my wife write down the number of gallons she put in the tank on her trip, so I have not done a manual calculation yet, but I will try to do that tonight. If anyone else can post their experiences/observations, that would be really helpful. Also, I originally started a similar thread (titled "Hybrid Range") in the PacHy General forum, but another member alerted me that it should be here - I'm hoping I can get some feedback from other owners so I can understand if it's me, my PacHy, all PacHys, or just the on-board calculations.

I was under the impression that the hybrid can start on battery power til drained, then use gas to charge the batteries, again switch to batteries, over and over. My non hybrid usually shows just under 400 miles to go when I fill up. If I fill up just off highway driving, it shows over 400 miles to go. The miles to go is based on your most recent driving history. I expect the miles to go on the hybrid on the dash is based on the mostly gasoline to go estimate. Heck I could be wrong. I am not a fan of hybrid or electric autos, except Formula E race cars. In their case they switch race cars to finish the race and do not try to swap batteries or charge batteries.

 

[willrobinson]

So tonight I was able to do a manual MPG calculation. I filled the tank last night and reset the trip odometer. My wife started the day with a full charge, drove approximately 45 miles to work, got a full charge at work, and then drove home. I then took it to the same gas station and same pump and filled it up again. It took .6 gallons. According to the dash computer/app, the van travelled a total of 92.9 miles: 74.9 electric miles and 18.0 hybrid miles. That would mean that we got an average of 37.45 miles on each full charge (74.9/2), and averaged 29 MPG in hybrid mode (18/.6). All of which seems to confirm what everyone in the forums has been telling me - ignore the range predictions, particularly for the first few tanks. I'm feeling better now, but I am still concerned about the 26.2 MPG my wife got on her trip to Chicago, but maybe that calculation was off also. Time will tell. The most important part is, we bought the van to dramatically reduce the gas my wife uses on her lengthy commute, and I had been hoping to get it down to under 1/3 gallon each way, and the van appears to be delivering on that, however you divide up the miles between gas and electric.

 

[gory]

This morning I left with a full charge and made three stops. All city driving. The battery alone was good for 40km (25 miles) before the gas engine kicked in. Air temp was 10-15 deg C here. So this doesn't take into account the draw from the climate control or radio. I'll do a more precise measure, but needless to say I'm disappointed at getting 20% less distance than expected.

 

[gory]

Moderators: Shouldn't this be merged with
http://www.pacificaforums.com/forum...id-general-discussion/14082-hybrid-range.html

 

[willrobinson]

This morning I left with a full charge and made three stops. All city driving. The battery alone was good for 40km (25 miles) before the gas engine kicked in. Air temp was 10-15 deg C here. So this doesn't take into account the draw from the climate control or radio. I'll do a more precise measure, but needless to say I'm disappointed at getting 20% less distance than expected.

On the Chicago trip (the first miles we drove on the car), my wife only got 20 miles on the battery before the gas engine kicked in, and today she got over 30 - maybe there is a short conditioning period for the battery.

 

[dlieu]

seasoned EV owners know that the only thing worth figuring is how to measure and keep track of is the usable battery kwh capacity The rest is the function of (mostly) one's style, your vehicle tires state (newer one tend to drop range by about 5-8% at first in my experience) and the landscape one is driving over. Even the usable capacity changes with outside temperature. Too many variables to care.

Problem is, some vehicles do not report total observed usable capacity directly, so one has to employ various tricks to actually approximate one. I would not worry with observed range but rather with initial capacity and especially rate of degradation. Tesla is said to degrade about 10% for 100k miles but it has far bigger battery which means it is having far fewer cycles and at far shallower depth of charge.

 

[RobbW]

seasoned EV owners know...

Having driven (and still driving) a Mitsubishi i-MiEV (all-electric EV) for the past 4.5 years, I can confirm that there are just too many variables that could easily affect the observed mileage. However, the main things I have learned that have the greatest impact are heater usage, driving style, and outside temperatures. The "Remaining Range" meter on my i-MiEV (aka "The Meepster") is calculated and estimated based on the previous 12 miles driven. It's likely the PacHy has a similar calculation for its estimated remaining range. If you drive consistently in the same type of traffic every day, and drive consistently in the same manner, and have consistent weather, then you can start to get a relatively accurate picture of your average mileage. However, if any of those variables (or anything else) changes on a regular basis, then it's hard to get a good picture of your regular mileage.

With my all-electric EV, I have gotten in the habit of calculating my estimated range based on remaining kW of charge multiplied by a fairly middle-of-the-road MPkW (miles per kWh), and then make sure I don't drive anywhere outside the calculated radius unless I'm darn certain I will have EV charging available at my destination.

The awesome thing about the PacHy is that I technically have a "charging" station on almost every corner (i.e. gasoline station). I no longer need to suffer from range anxiety with the PacHy and fear running out of charge in the middle of nowhere! I will still maximize my EV driving in the PacHy, but it is an indescribable feeling of freedom knowing I'm not locked into a very strict driving radius due to the lack of a formidable EV charging infrastructure here in the Midwest!

 

[dlieu]

Agree.

However, I commented on people being worried about something not working properly or as advertised. The only way to check for that is to verify that usable capacity is still within expected range, and that it would be nice to have it figured with this vehicle as well. If it starts dropping too fast, that'd be a reason for concern.

Beyond that, I am pretty sure i can find a way to log 15 electric miles on it here in Bay Area if I wanted to .

 

[RobbW]

Is there a hypermiling thread for the PacHy anywhere yet?

 

[gory]

Got 48 km today under similar conditions. Left this morning with a full charge and watched the trip meter. 48 km on battery only before the engine kicked in. Better than 40! Will try it again later.

 

[Dpacifica]

Just got my PacHy last night and this morning was the first drive to work. 21 miles all electric and it indicates 18 miles left. I imagine I will not get home on all electric and that I will do worse in the warm temp on the way home; however, that seems pretty good.

Is the battery percentage that shows solely based on the usable capacity in EV mode? Seems like it is, but wanted to confirm. I am going to run the battery down and do some tests in Hybrid mode only next.


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[ElectricGuy]

Just got my PacHy last night and this morning was the first drive to work. 21 miles all electric and it indicates 18 miles left. I imagine I will not get home on all electric and that I will do worse in the warm temp on the way home; however, that seems pretty good.

Is the battery percentage that shows solely based on the usable capacity in EV mode? Seems like it is, but wanted to confirm. I am going to run the battery down and do some tests in Hybrid mode only next.


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The battery shows the charge based on the capacity. Only if I go down a long hill do I see it get to 1% after it switches to hybrid mode.

I want to know, how can I tell if the car is running on battery or gas? I am sure it is obvious. In my other car an EV light comes on.

 

[Dpacifica]

The battery shows the charge based on the capacity. Only if I go down a long hill do I see it get to 1% after it switches to hybrid mode.



I want to know, how can I tell if the car is running on battery or gas? I am sure it is obvious. In my other car an EV light comes on.

I guess that makes sense. Seems odd to provide a percentage of charge as 0 when you are obviously not at 0 when you are in Hybrid mode, but it would be even more confusing with the actual percentage probably. People would probably wonder why it is always running on the engine when they have 10% left on the battery.

Our plug in Prius just has the estimated miles of EV range and a battery picture that drains as you use up the EV miles. Once it switches to Hybrid it has a sort of zoomed in battery indicator more like the regular Prius; no percentage to be found. It does have the EV indicator though when in EV.

I think if you go to the Hybrid info screen on the uConnect screen it will show you when you are drawing power from the engine; I will check on my ride home today to confirm.


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[RobbW]

In the center of the driver's dash, there is the screen you can change using the arrow buttons on the steering wheel. Pressing up/down scrolls through the groups of screens, then pressing right/left switches between the sub-screens in each group. I believe the Hybrid Info is screen #4. Press up/down to get to #4. The press right until you get to a semi-circular graphic that shows both a battery and engine icon. While you are driving, this graphic will show you which method is powering the the vehicle's movement and also how much power is being regenerated to charge the battery.

 

[Dpacifica]

In the center of the driver's dash, there is the screen you can change using the arrow buttons on the steering wheel. Pressing up/down scrolls through the groups of screens, then pressing right/left switches between the sub-screens in each group. I believe the Hybrid Info is screen #4. Press up/down to get to #4. The press right until you get to a semi-circular graphic that shows both a battery and engine icon. While you are driving, this graphic will show you which method is powering the the vehicle's movement and also how much power is being regenerated to charge the battery.

Yep, that works too. Neither display seems to be very useful as compared to the Prius screens. This van seems to be meant to just drive without thinking about electric or efficiency. After the electric miles depleted on my way home I reset trip B and got a disappointing 25.7 mpg. This was the first time I really used the van without EV so it will probably take some getting used to and some break in time to improve.

The range does seem a little conservative since the highest I saw was 328, but if I continue to get around 26 mpg I would not get much over 400 miles on the tank. So 328 factoring in the couple gallons you have after 0 is pretty accurate. Guess I should not expect to see 450 miles to empty ever.


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[ElectricGuy]

Yep, that works too. Neither display seems to be very useful as compared to the Prius screens. This van seems to be meant to just drive without thinking about electric or efficiency. After the electric miles depleted on my way home I reset trip B and got a disappointing 25.7 mpg. This was the first time I really used the van without EV so it will probably take some getting used to and some break in time to improve.

The range does seem a little conservative since the highest I saw was 328, but if I continue to get around 26 mpg I would not get much over 400 miles on the tank. So 328 factoring in the couple gallons you have after 0 is pretty accurate. Guess I should not expect to see 450 miles to empty ever.


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A couple things.

We need to remember these van are much larger/heavier than the average Prius. They are not going to get close to the same milage when running in hybrid mode.

While you got 25.7 mpg, my guess is there will be city/highway driving when you get over 30. 25.7 times 16.5 (tank size) = 424. Add 35 to that the total is 459. Saying, "I should not expect to see 450 miles to empty ever." is just silly.

And to add to the point above, anytime where the battery isn't getting recharged frequently is most likely traveling - which is going to be near exclusively highway/interstate travel. I'd be shocked if the van only got 26 MPG. But most of the time the battery should be getting charge frequently so the miles per tank should be much higher.

 

[Dpacifica]

A couple things.



We need to remember these van are much larger/heavier than the average Prius. They are not going to get close to the same milage when running in hybrid mode.



While you got 25.7 mpg, my guess is there will be city/highway driving when you get over 30. 25.7 times 16.5 (tank size) = 424. Add 35 to that the total is 459. Saying, "I should not expect to see 450 miles to empty ever." is just silly.



And to add to the point above, anytime where the battery isn't getting recharged frequently is most likely traveling - which is going to be near exclusively highway/interstate travel. I'd be shocked if the van only got 26 MPG. But most of the time the battery should be getting charge frequently so the miles per tank should be much higher.

Yep, I got just over 32 coming into work this morning (no highway). I certainly don't expect to get 60mpg like I regularly get in the Prius, but I am hoping to get over EPA based on my driving style.

All I meant regarding the 450 was that the van will be conservative enough to never display 450 (Hybrid miles, not total). However, if I consistently average around 32 mpg and the van assumes I will continue that for the estimated range it might think I could go 528 miles Hybrid (16.5*32).

Do we know how much exactly is accounted for once the range says 0? My thought was that the van displays estimated range based on about 14 gallons to leave you 2.5 after 0 to safely find a gas station (in the Prius I can easily get an extra 100 miles after "empty"). So my calculations were based on that; 16.5*32=528-(2.5*32=80)=448.

Either way, how far I can actually go is determined by my actual mpg and gallons left obviously. In the Prius I have often gone to the gas station early as I was concerned I might be close to empty only to find I had 2 gallons left which meant I could easily drive another hour at highway speeds. It is all about knowing your vehicle and driving habits I guess.


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