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To be fair though, its true. Minivans aren't "cool" and they don't project any sort of status the way certain SUVs or much less so today sedans do. Thats just a fact. Doesn't mean you have to care about that, but its true.
Surely Range Rovers are status vehicle and they should be at their price. They are not purchased for practical purposes just like nobody buys a Rolex for a precision time keeping.
The reasonably priced SUVs could project images of freedom and adventure 20 years ago, but not today when every soccer mom is bravely piloting her SUV to Costco.
There are different types of "utility". One type of utility is hauling people and stuff, a minivan excels at that. Another type of utility is being able to carry people and stuff over a variety of terrain and weather conditions to be able to get you and your family or group to remote places without paved roads comfortably.
No question about it! My argument is that the majority of the SUV owners never venture off the tarmac and have little desire to drive under adverse conditions. Furthermore, an AWD car or minivan are perfectly adequate under most "non adventure" circumstances. I owned an AWD Sienna, and it was quite capable in the snow. Ultimately, AWD turned out a useless feature, I attempted to drive in a snowstorm,once but had to turn back after a first hill, as the road was chocked with the cars and 2WD SUVs stuck on the bottom.
Most of the SUVs became a lot more road oriented during the last decades because of the shifting demographics of their buyers. They have low profile highway tires, short travel suspension, no undercarriage protection, etc. A lot of them are sold in 2WD trims. At the same time, many try to retain the "tough" look, which is rather comical.
Sure, there are people who make a full use out of 4 Runner, who know when and how use low gear. and diff lock. There are also people who carry passengers and tow a boat or a heavy trailer, and they can certainly justify a truck based body-on-frame SUV. But most would be better served by a sedan or a minivan than with another grotesquely proportioned SUV.
 

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No doubt there is a huge cargo difference. I had two Grand Cherokees before I started buying vans when my kids were born. There was just no way to take all the stuff with us we needed with two kids in rear facing car seats in the Grand Cherokee. The new LWB 3 row Grand Cherokee has a lot more room though, and we no longer need all of that capacity.

Different vehicles for different needs/wants.
Agreed. I have an L on order but even then the space won't match up given the Stow & Go and the Third Row folding into the well. It is much more feature laden (massaging seats) but also $15K more expensive. If the rumor about 8 passenger seating on the Limited it true, I might be foregoing the Grand Cherokee L and getting another Pacifica!
 

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But most would be better served by a sedan or a minivan than with another grotesquely proportioned SUV.
Fixed it for you! ;)
Myself included.
 

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Surely Range Rovers are status vehicle and they should be at their price. They are not purchased for practical purposes just like nobody buys a Rolex for a precision time keeping.
The reasonably priced SUVs could project images of freedom and adventure 20 years ago, but not today when every soccer mom is bravely piloting her SUV to Costco.
But they still project that image. People look at and comment on SUVs all the time, I got comments when I had my Jeeps, and my business partner has a Palisade and hardly ever is able to get gas without people asking him about it.

And I know tons of people who daily drive Range Rovers and buy them as purpose chosen vehicles. I daily drive a $120,000 Mercedes S560. Its all relative. I also know watch enthusiasts who, no kidding, love Rolex watches for their precision time keeping. I don't drive what I drive to impress others, I drive it because it impresses me. Don't assume people who own things that have "prestige" bought those things for their prestige.

No question about it! My argument is that the majority of the SUV owners never venture off the tarmac and have little desire to drive under adverse conditions. Furthermore, an AWD car or minivan are perfectly adequate under most "non adventure" circumstances. I owned an AWD Sienna, and it was quite capable in the snow. Ultimately, AWD turned out a useless feature, I attempted to drive in a snowstorm,once but had to turn back after a first hill, as the road was chocked with the cars and 2WD SUVs stuck on the bottom.
Most of the SUVs became a lot more road oriented during the last decades because of the shifting demographics of their buyers. They have low profile highway tires, short travel suspension, no undercarriage protection, etc. A lot of them are sold in 2WD trims. At the same time, many try to retain the "tough" look, which is rather comical.
Sure, there are people who make a full use out of 4 Runner, who know when and how use low gear. and diff lock. There are also people who carry passengers and tow a boat or a heavy trailer, and they can certainly justify a truck based body-on-frame SUV. But most would be better served by a sedan or a minivan than with another grotesquely proportioned SUV.
And most minivan drivers never use or need the bulk of the utility that minivans have. I have never used the Stow n Go seating to haul cargo in my minivan. Never, I have no need for it. I have very rarely carried 6 or 7 people. But, the utility is there. How is that any different than people having a vehicle that has offroad utility they rarely use? It isn't, the only difference is you value the space utility and not the offroad utility so to you thats acceptable.

Almost everybody is driving around in cars that offer WAY more utility than they need ever, or certainly often. I could drive a small one seat car every day, instead I drive a huge full sized luxury sedan capable of cruising at 170 MPH when it never tops 90. Most people who drive minivans drive them alone most of the time, maybe with a kid or two, and never use their space capacity. My wife is out running errands right now in the Pacifica alone. She could be doing that in a Yaris.

Its nice to have a vehicle that CAN do what you want to do with it even if you don't often need it to. For me and for others, that capability we want our vehicles to have is not capability a minivan has.

And sure, crossovers are more car oriented than they used to be, but they are still less car oriented than a minivan. The least robust AWD crossover is going to be more capable in the snow than an AWD Pacifica, thats just a fact. Ground clearance alone.

And at the end of the day, whats wrong with people driving vehicles they like the styling of? Nothing. The Pacifica is dolled up to pretend to be a luxury car, but it isn't...whats the difference between that and a crossover thats made to look tough when it isn't? Its all vanity.

Agreed. I have an L on order but even then the space won't match up given the Stow & Go and the Third Row folding into the well. It is much more feature laden (massaging seats) but also $15K more expensive. If the rumor about 8 passenger seating on the Limited it true, I might be foregoing the Grand Cherokee L and getting another Pacifica!
Never going to offer that space, but it offers a much more robust platform, way more power, more bad weather ability, offroad ability, completely different styling and driving experience, it depends on whats of value to you the most. I would choose a Grand Cherokee L over a Pacifica every time. You may not...and thats fine.

Fixed it for you! ;)
Myself included.
Actually a minivan is WAY more than what the vast majority of people and families need, most people can make do with a much smaller vehicle. I have two young kids, and honestly we could make do with two sedans if we had to.
 
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Well said Steve. I may add that it’s not just the utility, but the family friendly features of a minivan makes life easier, even if it’s only one or two kids in the vehicle (especially when they are young). It’s much easier to carry an infant in a car seat into a minivan vs a sedan (or even an SUV which has a higher floor). Also for a lot of kids to quickly ingress and egress from a vehicle such as in rain you can’t beat a minivan. You are right that majority of people do not value that utility except may be during the childbearing stages of their lives. As you said, it’s vanity and disdain for the mom and pop family stereotype which make them less attractive to opposite sex I guess. :D
For many others especially in this forum, that doesn’t matter at all and they don’t care what others think about them (and I truly respect that).
 
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Another thing that I am missing from not having a van, is the super wide sill I can sit on when I open a sliding door. I loved sitting on that after a race and changing shoes or clothes. Plus the kids use that as a handy step!
 
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Well said Steve. I may add that it’s not just the utility, but the family friendly features of a minivan makes life easier, even if it’s only one or two kids in the vehicle (especially when they are young). It’s much easier to carry an infant in a car seat into a minivan vs a sedan (or even an SUV which has a higher floor). Also for a lot of kids to quickly ingress and egress from a vehicle such as in rain you can’t beat a minivan.
All of that is totally true

you are right that majority of people do not value that utility except may be during the childbearing stages of their lives.
Our minivans were great tools when we had young kids, the one thing that still is really nice is the sliding doors (don't have to worry about kids flinging the doors open into stuff) but thats not enough for me to want to continue to ignore the things I want out of a vehicle the minivan doesnt provide for another round past the expiration of this lease in 2 years.

As you said, it’s vanity and disdain for the mom and pop family stereotype which make them less attractive to opposite sex I guess. :D
Thats actually the exact opposite of what I said lol. Thats certainly a part of it for some, but there are a lot of very real reasons why people would and do prefer SUVs. Its not simply a function of vanity as many people here are asserting that it is.
 

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Thats actually the exact opposite of what I said lol.
You’re right…. it looks that way after I typed it even though I meant the opposite. LOL.


Another thing that I am missing from not having a van, is the super wide sill I can sit on when I open a sliding door. I loved sitting on that after a race and changing shoes or clothes. Plus the kids use that as a handy step!
We used to stove the passenger side seat and used that area as a resting pad for quick diaper changes during a short stop, since many rest areas could be crowded and some might be unclean.
 

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Yes - for sure - that wide sill is perfect for all kinds of uses! Love the van and want to get back into one again soon!
 

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Yo, Steve!

Get an AWD Pacifica, drive up north few hundred miles in the winter and I’m sure you’ll see how great a vehicle it is in snow. 👍
 

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Yo, Steve!

Get an AWD Pacifica, drive up north few hundred miles in the winter and I’m sure you’ll see how great a vehicle it is in snow. 👍
I'm sure it would be great in the snow. Still won't solve the fact that I don't like how minivans look, I don't like the driving position or how they feel, and it won't do any of the semi-offroading I want to do in WV. Next vehicle will be an SUV.
 

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No point arguing with Steve about minivans. We’ll reach a dead end. It’s a lost case. :ROFLMAO:

We will continue to drive and love ours until eternity.
 

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Yep, no reason me not liking them doesn’t mean you can’t like them.
 

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Yep, no reason me not liking them doesn’t mean you can’t like them.
Steve, I felt compelled to say I truly appreciate your civil, open-minded and kind spirited debates! I wish more folks in this country of ours would be more willing to discuss opposing views this way versus jumping immediately to defensiveness and anger because someone disagrees with their viewpoints. I give you my most sincere thanks for participating in this forum.
 
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I hate Toyota products, but I don't waste my time on Toyota forums talking about it...

Just sayin'. 🤣
 

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Steve, I felt compelled to say I truly appreciate your civil, open-minded and kind spirited debates! I wish more folks in this country of ours would be more willing to discuss opposing views this way versus jumping immediately to defensiveness and anger because someone disagrees with their viewpoints. I give you my most sincere thanks for participating in this forum.
I appreciate that!

I hate Toyota products, but I don't waste my time on Toyota forums talking about it...

Just sayin'. 🤣
I own a Pacifica, in fact I have owned two. If I didn't have one I wouldn't post here. So, unless you own a Toyota the comparison makes no sense.

And again, I do not hate the Pacifica. I just don't like minivans (I don't hate minivans) and have one out of neccessity during this specific period of my life. I'm not wrong because I don't like minivans and you do...I've owned 3 of them so its not that "I just have never experienced the incredible utility" I have, I just don't need that at this point and it doesnt outweigh all of the things I dislike about them. We just like different things...gotta deal with that.
 
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Steve, I actually agree with most of what you're saying. You're framing the question wider than me. My beef with the people who have a reasonable need for a larger vehicle, but pick a similarly priced SUV over a minivan purely for its image. My wife's close friend is a perfect example. She lives in Miami- no snow anywhere near. She drove a Honda Pilot because she didn't want to "look like a soccer mom"- her own words. She eventually had to move to an Odyssey after she got her 3rd kid. She admitted that it was more convenient and practical, but still thought that it projected a wrong image.
 

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Steve, I actually agree with most of what you're saying. You're framing the question wider than me. My beef with the people who have a reasonable need for a larger vehicle, but pick a similarly priced SUV over a minivan purely for its image. My wife's close friend is a perfect example. She lives in Miami- no snow anywhere near. She drove a Honda Pilot because she didn't want to "look like a soccer mom"- her own words. She eventually had to move to an Odyssey after she got her 3rd kid. She admitted that it was more convenient and practical, but still thought that it projected a wrong image.
But at the end of the day, people want to like what they drive. If the image of what they drive is important to them, then it is what it is.
 
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