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Discussion Starter #1
I wanted to merge threads and see how everyone is doing. Weather lately has been below 40f pretty constant. We're using an extreme amount of gas now. Prior to recall we would run about 65% electric, now we're using about 15% electric. Engine cycles extreme amount or doesn't use electric at all. Extremely annoyed by this.

My experience:
  • Started after recall was completed
  • Only happens in cold weather i.e. below 40f(?)
  • Engine cycles extreme amount, sometimes starts just as fast as it turns off
  • Uses more gas because engine cycling so much
  • Engine cycles while driving
  • Electric sometimes isn't even used and engine runs for no reason at all (i.e. no incline, throttle usage, load, heat load..etc)

Threads I found:

https://www.pacificaforums.com/forum/433-2017-chrysler-pacifica-phev-hybrid-general-discussion/41383-low-temperature-ice-behavior.html

https://www.pacificaforums.com/forum/433-2017-chrysler-pacifica-phev-hybrid-general-discussion/41215-strange-ice-behavior.html

https://www.pacificaforums.com/forum/433-2017-chrysler-pacifica-phev-hybrid-general-discussion/41279-lots-random-issues-lately-engine-start-stop-rear-climate-access-etc.html

Currently I'm working on getting a loaner from a family member or FCA, family of 6 makes it difficult to get to a dealer. I drove the van Saturday, should of been 100% electric and was 8 miles gas, 4 miles electric. Drove it Friday , should of been 100% electric, ended up being 42 miles gas, 4 miles electric (multiple charging stations).

This issue really defeats the purpose of the van, actually i would say at this point with the engine cycling so much probably get worse MPG than a gas model.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Where do you live?
How cold does it get where you are?
Kansas City Suburb , last few days its been high 20's low 30's. Today high 45f. We had the van last winter and never had this issue. Yesterday when I went to the store it was 30f out, van ran 100% gas one direction, and 4miles electric / 2 gas on way back. There is no rhyme or reason to this madness other than below 40f it is alot worse. All this started after the last recall.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So we've sort of figured this out, still haven't had a chance to visit a dealer. Anything below 40f with any HVAC on a/c or heat even with no load ICE kicks on. If we drive without HVAC on, we will stay all electric. Now above 40f, no matter the heat load or a/c load everything is normal and van tries to be all electric as much as possible. I believe with the recall/ecu update someone changed the algorithm to be similar to a non-hybrid pacific. I say this because we had a rental early fall and it would cycle at a light with heat on just like our van is doing now.
 

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Anecdotally the most recent SW seems to have changed PacHy's behaviour. I am seeing much more ICE this year than last year.
It would be great if they actually listed the changes like other SW does.
 

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This is easy to explain, PacHy hates cold weather like me. It's just shivering to keep warm.

Seriously though, this happens to me in the frigid cold and it's really annoying because not only is it loud, you can really feel the van shake. I thought it was due to being at 0% battery and the engine can't decide to stay on or off but it happened with a significant charge.

Also, not sure if I'm a fan of this award winning Pentastar engine. It's kind of "rough" or maybe it's due to something else.
 

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This is easy to explain, PacHy hates cold weather like me. It's just shivering to keep warm.

Seriously though, this happens to me in the frigid cold and it's really annoying because not only is it loud, you can really feel the van shake. I thought it was due to being at 0% battery and the engine can't decide to stay on or off but it happened with a significant charge.

Also, not sure if I'm a fan of this award winning Pentastar engine. It's kind of "rough" or maybe it's due to something else.

The engine is smooth, it's the engagement/disengagement that shakes the car and feels rough. It seems to be a threshold event, where it kicks on and off at fractions of a reading. I have a heating generator on my truck that behaves similarly when very cold out.On/off/on/off every few minutes.
 

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The engine is smooth, it's the engagement/disengagement that shakes the car and feels rough. It seems to be a threshold event, where it kicks on and off at fractions of a reading. I have a heating generator on my truck that behaves similarly when very cold out.On/off/on/off every few minutes.
I agree. And it probably could be re-programmed to be a little smoother. I think it’s the heavy load of the ‘generator motor’ (which charges the HV battery) that makes the engine sound kind of loud. I’m sure that that load can be ramped in after the engine starts and ramped out before it’s shut down. I don’t know how that would affect efficiency though.

It is true, generally speaking, that starting an engine up repeatedly causes more wear than leaving it running. When the engine has been sitting for some amount of time not running then the oil tends to run out of the places where it needs to be. At the instant you start the engine there is somewhat of a starvation for lubrication until the oil pump kicks in and gets the oil flowing everywhere again. Perhaps the Chrysler engineers realize this and have found that starting and stopping every few seconds is less wear and tear than starting, running for a few minutes, stopping, and staying off for a few minutes. Maybe doing it that way doesn’t allow much time for the oil to drain away from the critical places and so it’s not so hard (as far as wear and tear goes) on the engine to re-start. Just an idea...
 

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I doubt this start /stop is deliberate. It's likely the threshold is too small, and needs to be widened.

It takes quite a while for engines to be drained of lubricating oil, especially if still warm, not to mention its 0 weight oil. Since there's no starter, the engine gets spun up to speed quickly.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
 

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I doubt this start /stop is deliberate. It's likely the threshold is too small, and needs to be widened.

It takes quite a while for engines to be drained of lubricating oil, especially if still warm, not to mention its 0 weight oil. Since there's no starter, the engine gets spun up to speed quickly.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
Well, zero weight oil is less viscous and I would think it would actually drain away more quickly. And generally oil becomes less viscous as it heats up. Actually, there is a starter, just not int the conventional sense. It’s one of the two motors that is housed in the transmission.
 

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Other than the ICE kicking on and off, are there other problems with the PacHy in cold weather?
We park inside an unheated garage at night. Will the interior of the vehicle heat up while plugged in?
Is the interior warming up while driving in cold weather? My wife is not satisfied with heated seats alone.
Is fuel mileage any worse than a straight ICE Pacifica?
Are there cold weather starting problems?
 

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Did anyone see the news item today about the polar vortex cold and the fact it reduced the power/distance by one half?
I know you battery people love your van and that is great. But, for now, I am going to stick with my gaser.
 

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I believe the rough part is when the van is engaging the Atkinson-cycle engine. Its a little rough and loud especially compared to pure electric (and also regular engine usage). But its doing exactly what its supposed to be doing, which is trying to be as efficient as possible. I think its also at that time using the ICE to dump a little extra power into the battery. And really, I don't think its that loud, I think its just different. Just like I occasionally hear sounds from the battery behind me. This car is just doing a lot under the hood that is very different than your basic Honda.
 

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This is funny, but as soon as I posted this I just read a different thread in which someone traded in their '18 for a '19. He says the '19 engine is much quieter when it fires between electric and ICE. I have a '19 and have never driven a different year. I wonder if some fine tuning has been done or if anyone else can comment on this. All I can say is that I can definitely tell when it changes from otto-cycle to Atkinson because it has a completely different sound and is a bit rougher. But it is definitely not rough enough that its a bother to me, just something that you notice.
 

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This is funny, but as soon as I posted this I just read a different thread in which someone traded in their '18 for a '19. He says the '19 engine is much quieter when it fires between electric and ICE. I have a '19 and have never driven a different year. I wonder if some fine tuning has been done or if anyone else can comment on this. All I can say is that I can definitely tell when it changes from otto-cycle to Atkinson because it has a completely different sound and is a bit rougher. But it is definitely not rough enough that its a bother to me, just something that you notice.
Interesting, this is the first I've heard about the engine switching between Otto and Atkinson cycle. Where did you hear about that?

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Our 18 PacHy doesn't seem to suffer from this rough start issue. Most of the time, I can't tell when the ICE is summoned for service. The only time I really notice it is when at a dead stop, or kicking down to pass. Other than that, it's like a sewing machine.

One thing that did suprise me is that I remote started PacHy a few mornings ago while level 2 charger was still plugged in, and it was still within the charge time schedule, so it could have pulled plenty of power. It was about 37f outside. The ICE fired up as soon as I remote started. I thought it would use the level 2 charger to warm itself up. That surprised me. For me, it defeated the purpose of being "green" as I watched it idle in the drive way still hooked to EVSE while it warmed up.
 

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Being plugged in on the cold morning doesn't seem to make much difference. The engine needs to come on to get hot. After 10 minutes, my battery goes to 98%, plugged in or not to level 2.
 

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Being plugged in on the cold morning doesn't seem to make much difference. The engine needs to come on to get hot. After 10 minutes, my battery goes to 98%, plugged in or not to level 2.
So the A/C is battery powered, but heat relies on ICE/heater core? I assumed that the A/C and heat were both battery powered based on my electric car experience. Perhaps the battery requirement for heat was just too much? Although, powering A/C requires a lot of energy too.
 

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So the A/C is battery powered, but heat relies on ICE/heater core? I assumed that the A/C and heat were both battery powered based on my electric car experience. Perhaps the battery requirement for heat was just too much? Although, powering A/C requires a lot of energy too.
Imagine driving your van when the temp outside is -20 F. To get the interior to 70 is a 90 degree rise.
Now, imagine driving your car when the outside temp is 90. To get the temp to 70 is a 20 degree differential.
Which do you think takes more energy?
 

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Imagine driving your van when the temp outside is -20 F. To get the interior to 70 is a 90 degree rise.
Now, imagine driving your car when the outside temp is 90. To get the temp to 70 is a 20 degree differential.
Which do you think takes more energy?
With respect, your logic is flawed. The energy requirements to heat and cool the Pacifica are independant of the source of that energy. Of course your scenario requires more energy, no disputing that. But, whether that energy comes from the HV battery, or ICE doesn't matter, as for any given temperature the energy requirement to reach desired interior climate is the same. Electric cars use HV Battery for heat, and will pull the power they need from Level 2 ESVE (if plugged in) to provide that heat without depleting the HV battery. I orginally thought the PacHy would be the same is all.

I do see the benefit of using the ICE for heat though. For example, if I'm on the freeway doing 65 mph at freezing temps, it's going to be really hard on the ICE when it does transition to hydrid mode and the freezing cold engine fires up and is immediatly met with freeway rpm's and power demand while the freezing cold oil is all in the pan, and in its most viscous state. So, I do get why it would be engineered this way.
 
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