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Discussion Starter #1
We'll be looking soon to replace our 06 EXL Odyssey with 257k miles. I just started preliminary research and it looks like in the minivan market only Ody and Pacifica are top contenders for various reasons.

Sorry, if this question was discussed before, but I'm not sure I understand the economics of buying Pacifica Hybrid (warrantied for 10y/150k miles) if one plans to keep the car over 10 year period.
It is my understanding that after 10 years, the likelihood of replacing the battery is very high. The cost of replacing the battery for 10+ year vehicle does not make a lot of sense to me, but maybe someone in this forum can explain why would you buy a hybrid van for a long-term period? I mean I understand 'save the planet' concept, but this is not Tesla.

Side note: I got excited finding 18 Hybrid Limited w/'manager special' for 36k (base). Subtracting 7.5k federal credit (if it is still applicable?), the price for the van seems too good to be true. Ody Elite w/10 speed tranny costs much more - $42k base. I almost called the dealership, but then thought about this 'long-term' question and now would like to get more clarification on this.
 

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We'll be looking soon to replace our 06 EXL Odyssey with 257k miles. I just started preliminary research and it looks like in the minivan market only Ody and Pacifica are top contenders for various reasons.

Sorry, if this question was discussed before, but I'm not sure I understand the economics of buying Pacifica Hybrid (warrantied for 10y/150k miles) if one plans to keep the car over 10 year period.
It is my understanding that after 10 years, the likelihood of replacing the battery is very high. The cost of replacing the battery for 10+ year vehicle does not make a lot of sense to me, but maybe someone in this forum can explain why would you buy a hybrid van for a long-term period? I mean I understand 'save the planet' concept, but this is not Tesla.

Side note: I got excited finding 18 Hybrid Limited w/'manager special' for 36k (base). Subtracting 7.5k federal credit (if it is still applicable?), the price for the van seems too good to be true. Ody Elite w/10 speed tranny costs much more - $42k base. I almost called the dealership, but then thought about this 'long-term' question and now would like to get more clarification on this.
You’re about in the same boat I was about six months ago. We had (actually still have) a 2002 Odyssey with 312k miles on it and finally decided it was time for a new one and bought the 2018 PacHy. Here’s what I think on the long term viability of keeping the PacHy: First, I think technology will have sufficiently evolved by 2029 such that a replacement battery will not be as expensive as it is now. I also think it’s very possible that you may find that there will be plenty of new upstart companies that will be able repair and/or refurbish battery paks. I also think that even if the battery pak loses much of its capacity after ten years and will not retain a sufficient charge for electric-only mode, the van will still continue to function well as a hybrid vehicle where the battery is used pretty much just as a buffer between the generator and the motor.

Here’s another scenario albeit perhaps a little far-fetched. Suppose in ten years that the price of gas has risen to $5/gallon but the cost of electricity doesn’t change that much. It might make more sense to shell out a few thousand bucks for a new battery if you’ll be saving a lot by driving using electricity as your primary fuel.
 

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I suppose your question should be related to the cost of the battery. I have no idea what that cost may be for it. It’s probably a bit more than the cost of replacing the transmission in your Odyssey. So given that if the transmission died in your current van at 150k miles would you have replaced it and kept the van going?

We are seeing around 32-34mpg average in our Pachy because of some extended road trips (it would be higher if we stuck around town). Our Sienna averaged 14.5mpg for the 80k miles we had it.

Given 150k miles we’ll use 4700 gallons ($16,900) in the Pachy and 10,400 gallons ($37,000) in the Sienna. Of course the Pachy is also using electricity but in our case it comes off our roof. Everything has a cost associated.

Someone on here will have numbers for 150k that include the electricity cost.


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Why do you think the battery will only last 10 years? It may not have it's optimal capacity, but it will still function. With a short range battery it should still drive like a hybrid.

Did you need to have your transmission rebuilt in the Odyssey? I know many who have. The cost is probably similar to a battery replacement. There are a few Chevy Volt owners who needed the battery replaced for some reason outside warranty and my understanding was it's in the $3500 ballpark. These aren't the magic everlasting drivetrain, they need maintenance like everything else and sometimes a major service. Who knows what they will be like after 10 years. My Volt is at 6 years and 80K miles and still has it's original range. I think we will have it long past 10 years, we'll see.
 

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My last Chrysler minivan lasted 15 years and I intend to keep my PacHy at least 10 if all goes well. Yes, the battery warranty is for 10 years, but I don't know that anyone knows for certain that it's going to need to be replaced after 10 years.

I can think of a lot of appliances and other items that well outlast their initial warranty period. AutoTrader and Edmunds say the high-voltage batteries should last 10-15 years or around 200K miles, although Toyota says some Priuses have gotten to almost 300K on the factory battery. Plus with the current state of change in battery technology and cost, it may be much less expensive to replace in a few years (and may provide greater range than the current batteries).

In the meantime, I'm driving a car that often gets 1000 miles per tank (I plug in every night) so I only refuel once a month or whenever I take a long trip. Even on long highway trips, the range is 400+ miles (27-29 mpg is much better than my 02 T&C). And with the $7500 Federal tax credit, the cost of my hybrid was less than a similarly equipped gas Pacifica... my dealer tried to talk me into switching while I waited for delivery since he had several Pacificas on his lot, but he wouldn't come down enough in price to make it worthwhile.
 

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Side note: I got excited finding 18 Hybrid Limited w/'manager special' for 36k (base). Subtracting 7.5k federal credit (if it is still applicable?), the price for the van seems too good to be true. Ody Elite w/10 speed tranny costs much more - $42k base. I almost called the dealership, but then thought about this 'long-term' question and now would like to get more clarification on this.
Ditto what everybody else said, but about that "manager special", it may already have the $7500 federal and any state incentives already built in, as well as any whacky incentives you probably aren't eligible for. If that's the case, go with a different dealer... that's scammy... and go with a 2019 if it ain't that much more.
 

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You can already buy refurbished batteries for various Honda and Toyota hybrid's, I would assume there would be a market for refurbished Pacifica batteries as well. I found a listing for a 04-09 Prius battery for 800 bucks, with another $200 for install in NJ.

Really you just have to decide if the improved mileage, and 20ish miles of electric only range are worth the additional cost of the van and a replacement battery in 10 years. I am not sure how easy it is to install the Pacifica battery but 1k seems rather low to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Thank you for all who replied. I test drove today Hyb Touring Plus model at another dealership. I liked the chairs, but speed dial shifter is a horrible idea. Just for comparison also test drove today 19' Ody EXL w/RES and Elite trims. There is no shifter either, but the buttons in the Ody are a better idea than a dial on Pachy, imho. The seats in the Ody are not good. There is no improvement whatsoever in comparison to older generations.

The bottom line, I'm still not sure about the long-term reliability of Pacifica and if the battery will outlive its warranted period. Btw, there is no option to buy an extended warranty on the battery. Regarding, Federal Tax credit for 2019 one sales guy at the dealership told me that there is no more credit if I buy the van, but if I lease than there is one. Apparently, he confirmed w/Chrysler HQs. I highly doubt that what he says is the truth.
Another thing I noticed is that transmission origin is in Canada and the engine is in Mexico. The latter worries me.

Ody's transmissions and engines are reliable to go over 250k miles and up. Though, the other parts might fail too like in Pacifica.

The two 'manager specials' 2018 Pachy Limited editions for $36k, I mentioned in my original post, were scam :) The sales guy said that these are not for sale because of ball joints failure and currently under recall.

And here we go reliability vs saving on gas decisions :)
 

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Thank you for all who replied. I test drove today Hyb Touring Plus model at another dealership. I liked the chairs, but speed dial shifter is a horrible idea. Just for comparison also test drove today 19' Ody EXL w/RES and Elite trims. There is no shifter either, but the buttons in the Ody are a better idea than a dial on Pachy, imho. The seats in the Ody are not good. There is no improvement whatsoever in comparison to older generations.

The bottom line, I'm still not sure about the long-term reliability of Pacifica and if the battery will outlive its warranted period. Btw, there is no option to buy an extended warranty on the battery. Regarding, Federal Tax credit for 2019 one sales guy at the dealership told me that there is no more credit if I buy the van, but if I lease than there is one. Apparently, he confirmed w/Chrysler HQs. I highly doubt that what he says is the truth.
Another thing I noticed is that transmission origin is in Canada and the engine is in Mexico. The latter worries me.

Ody's transmissions and engines are reliable to go over 250k miles and up. Though, the other parts might fail too like in Pacifica.

The two 'manager specials' 2018 Pachy Limited editions for $36k, I mentioned in my original post, were scam :) The sales guy said that these are not for sale because of ball joints failure and currently under recall.

And here we go reliability vs saving on gas decisions :)
I would run from that dealership! The first lie is that you can only get the federal tax credit if you lease. The second lie is that the van is not for sale because of the recall. It’s true there is an ongoing recall which involves something about installing a larger bolt in a ball joint. But any salesman in his right mind would sell you the car and just expedite the recall/repair. I’m sure if they wanted to sell you a van it could be ready in a day or two.
 

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Careful on the tax credit—the first registered owner of the car gets the credit. Lease from a dealer? The dealer gets the tax credit.

The shift knob weirded me out at first. I was sure I’d be reaching for the radio and use it. Now that I’ve had the van for all of a week, I actually appreciate the knob and it’s location. I’m pretty regularly moving between D and L. Not sure I’d like it on a gasser, but on the PacHy I do.
 

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Careful on the tax credit—the first registered owner of the car gets the credit. Lease from a dealer? The dealer gets the tax credit.

The shift knob weirded me out at first. I was sure I’d be reaching for the radio and use it. Now that I’ve had the van for all of a week, I actually appreciate the knob and it’s location. I’m pretty regularly moving between D and L. Not sure I’d like it on a gasser, but on the PacHy I do.
The lessor decides if they want to pass the tax credit to the lessee. In the beginning FCA kept the credit. Last year they finally understood that they need to give it back for leases to be attractive.

I'm not a huge fan of the dial shifter, although it turned out less hassle than I thought.
Regarding the battery, let's take an extreme example. If a Tesla battery loses 80% of its capacity, the car will be useless. PacHy with such almost dead battery will still be getting 30+MPG on gas and its range will decrease from 500 miles to 470- hardly a problem.
Read the forum, there are lot of great threads on PacHy vs Ody. Where else will you learn that the Honda has no rear AC and you can't get HIDs on PacHy.
 

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The lessor decides if they want to pass the tax credit to the lessee.
Pass on the value, you mean. If you’re leasing you're not eligible to claim the credit. I can see people with a tax obligation that’s less than the credit being able to get the full value of the credit through a lease.
 

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Pass on the value, you mean. If you’re leasing you're not eligible to claim the credit. I can see people with a tax obligation that’s less than the credit being able to get the full value of the credit through a lease.
No they meant Chrysler Capital can decide if they want to pass the credit to people as a discount. They used to not pass the credit. Most other manufacturers will pass the credit when leasing. It doesn't mean they always have to.
 

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No they meant Chrysler Financial can decide if they want to pass the credit to people as a discount. They used to not pass the credit. Most other manufacturers will pass the credit when leasing. It doesn't mean they always have to.


Which means the leasee of the car will not know what the financial manager has planned for his tax issue until the time of filing tax returns. Hardly confidence inspiring.


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No they meant Chrysler Financial can decide if they want to pass the credit to people as a discount. They used to not pass the credit. Most other manufacturers will pass the credit when leasing. It doesn't mean they always have to.
Both you and RC Mike are correct. FCA can give you the value of the tax credit, not the credit itself. But they don't decide it on a case by case basis, once the policy is established, everyone gets it.
 

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Which means the leasee of the car will not know what the financial manager has planned for his tax issue until the time of filing tax returns. Hardly confidence inspiring.


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By saying that, I may not said things clearly.

Sometime in 2018 Chrysler Capital decided to pass the $7500 tax credit as a discount to the leasee. So the monthly payments came down from around $700 to around $500. I feel bad for anyone that leased it at $700 per month. As a leasee, you don't have to worry about filing a return for the car like you do when you purchase one.
 

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I plan on keeping my PacHy for as long as I can. If history repeats itself, gas prices will go up and we all know about the gas shortage in the 70s. And when auto manufacturers were having horsepower wars in the late 60s. I think the big 3 (Chrysler, Ford and GM) are having horsepower wars now. Chrysler is putting their hellcat engine in everything they can (Ram and Durango are rumored to be next).
This is why I bought the mopar lifetime warranty (before they stopped the program). It covers almost everything that a fluid touches and more. I know it doesn't cover the HV battery, but like others here have said, battery prices I think will go down.

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Shifter knob

Careful on the tax credit—the first registered owner of the car gets the credit. Lease from a dealer? The dealer gets the tax credit.

The shift knob weirded me out at first. I was sure I’d be reaching for the radio and use it. Now that I’ve had the van for all of a week, I actually appreciate the knob and it’s location. I’m pretty regularly moving between D and L. Not sure I’d like it on a gasser, but on the PacHy I do.
I agree with RC Mike, I was a bit concerned about the shifter knob for the first few weeks. After 2 to 3 months, I actually like it. The overall value of what you get for a van, how well it work, how comfortable and how efficient it is for both short term and long term use, and the tax credit, bringing it down to comparable cost to a non-hybrid, make it a slamdunk compared to the others available to me. I would absolutely repeat my decision, and regularly promote this vehicle to friends and family. I never thought I would buy another Chrysler product, but this one changed my mind.
 
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