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Discussion Starter #1
Not a plug in , and all the hype was going to be about superior mileage for plug in against Pacifica . Sorry Toyota , not even close. Just shows you that Pacifica is leader of pack . Wonder what they are saying on sienna forum ....lol...
 

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Just reading about it. No removable (or stowable) 2nd row! 53 hp drop from 2020! 4cyl only engine teamed with 2 (or optional 3) electric motors. It does get 33 mpg average, so that will be a selling point. They still offer the AWD option.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Put 6 people in it and some luggage with 243 hp and see how that works out with ac travelling down interstate at 70 mph 👎
 

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Reading more on the Sienna. It certainly looks more up to date (but perhaps a little over done), and the interior is much nicer than before. I notice they still use a shift lever, which will appeal to more conservative buyers. They also claim to have gotten rid of the bus-like driving position, which is a good move. That 33mpg on every Sienna on the lot will be a huge selling factor, and Toyota has built a good reputation for hybrids.

They will sell a lot of them, probably hurting Honda more than Chrysler.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That dash and shifter look old already . 243 hp isn’t exactly peppy and sorry but that front end is just a huge bug Catcher . Hybrid or not wait till real world numbers come out, auto testing lacks real world climate , weight , usage characteristics.
 

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I like the exterior styling. Dare I say that its the most masculine minivan design? But a 4 cylinder? That's not going to be very smooth. I bet they release a V6 in the future.
 

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I've been lurking here, and not taking the plunge on the Pacifica Hybrid specifically to see what Toyota came up with. I drove a 2018 Sienna for 2 years for my vanpool at work. Not bad, but the styling was weird and the XLE's cheap plastic interior started rattling after 1000 miles. This new Sienna looks like a mid-cycle refresh, not a new van. Even the interior looks like a committee designed it by saying "but not too new, keep it familiar." So I'm underwhelmed.

That said, I'm underwhelmed by the 2021 Pacifica as well (which is a mid-cycle refresh). LED headlights and the rear lightbar are nice on the new Pacifica, but the front doesn't look as unified as Irina's original design, which ends with the 2020 model year.

So, it looks like I'll be taking advantage of a covid-19 deal on a 2020 Pacifica Hybrid, and replacing the headlamps with LEDs shortly thereafter. Now to just find one with the brown interior here on the mid-Atlantic coast!

So sorry, Toyota. You make great hybrids, but really crappy interior/ exterior designs, and I have to wake up to this every morning.
 

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That interior is super fugly. There is so much empty plastic space on the console, even with the giant penis of a shifter. The console blocks the second row so you can't go all the way across from either door? My kids do that all the time, like every time we get in the van. Toyota found a way for the interior to still look 15 years old in a brand new vehicle. The outside is ok at best. It looks best looking at any side straight on. Looking from the corners does it no favors.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yeah but a 4 cyl with non plug in charging , how much regen braking you gonna get at best . There’s no way load than thing up with people , luggage, ac that your gonna get 33 mpg . On a straight road will only be optimum , throw in some hills , passing , etc and at best maybe 25
 

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Yeah but a 4 cyl with non plug in charging , how much regen braking you gonna get at best . There’s no way load than thing up with people , luggage, ac that your gonna get 33 mpg . On a straight road will only be optimum , throw in some hills , passing , etc and at best maybe 25
Why do you think the number of cylinders on the gas engine affects your regen? The regen power you can get is determined by the torque rating on the electric motor and maybe the max charge power on the battery pack.

Personally I think a 4-cylinder makes sense on a hybrid, they're more efficient and smaller. With a hybrid you don't care about the torque curve of your ICE anyway.
 

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so let’s say that you in theory have depleted your battery and are gas to allow for acceleration . The regret is only capable of utilizing that when you are not on the accelerator . Take for instance straight line vs a hilly interstate , which would allow you to utilize regren more ? To say that putting a 4 cyl in a 5 thousand pound vehicle and would allow for great acceleration would be a very underwhelming experience . Your basically saying that a rav 4 or a corolla, with same powertrain , would get same mileage as sienna . Ask yourself this , why did Honda not put a 4 cyl in their van as they are king of 4 cyls . The van prior to this powertrain utilized a 6 cyl and had underwhelming gas mileage , now throw some 20 tires and extra weight with a 4 cyl and you do think that it’s going to get 33 mpg from its previous powertrain ? Drive your vehicle and don’t charge battery for 1000 miles and see what your mileage will be with regen . Regren is only as good as when it’s not into the power mode of acceleration .
 

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I'm deeply disappointed with the new Sienna. I don't like the styling- all these creases look like they put the thing in a crusher and changed their minds after it started to crush it down. Tha gaping mouth is hardly attractive. I could live with it if they nailed the ergonomics and functionality of the interior. Minivans are all about versatility. My first one was a 2009 Sienna and I was deeply impressed with the countless ways I could reconfigure the cabin. Pacifica doesn't come close. But the new Sienna is far behind. The non removable middle row seats have no place in the minivan! Pac can swallow a 4x8 sheet- indispensable for any kind of house work. And the "bridge" between the dashboard and the console precludes stowing a large bag there. The press release doesn't have enough interior shots to see configuration options, but it is clear that Sienna copied at least a couple of the questionable design decisions from Pacifica. The slidind door window is weirdly shaped and the shade leaves huge gaps. The rear window appears to be fixed.
The van in the press release is probably a pre production specimen, but coudn't they fix the assembly defects before featuring it in the press release photos? Just look at this:
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That shifter straight from the last century... The boot is already peeling

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Not even discussing the wimpy battery.
 

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Agreed with most comments on here, though we’re all bound to be partial to the PacHy! If @CANADAHYBRIDGUY is right about the MPG, that will be the death knell for the Sienna—as a competitor against the PacHy (no one else has hybrid powertrain or AWD, so she’ll eat the lunch of Kia and Honda). BUT, if the real world MPG lives up to its billing, it’s hard to overlook how valuable that could be to those who put a lot of mileage on a van in increments larger than, say, 50 miles per shot. I’ve only been on one long road trip with my PacHy so far, but MPG came in WELL below 33, granted with 2+2 and our stuff in the car. Around the city (albeit in January-March) when I wasn’t able to charge I was happy with 21 MPG for a week’s worth of short range trips, and I assume the hybrid Sienna will beat that comfortably. So I think there’s definitely a strong market position for her to occupy, just depends on real world MPG. Now that I can charge every night, I wouldn’t trade my PacHy for the world (knock on wood)!
 

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I don't know exactly what the EPA cycle includes, but short trips are bad for mpg regardless of what vehicle you have. This is because things are cold and emissions regulations require running the engine to heat up the cat. Short trips bring the mpg on our Prius down from 50 to 45, and I'm pretty sure a Sienna hybrid or a Pachy is affected the same way (unless running purely on battery). If you're doing a lot of short trips, nothing will best an EV.
 

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so let’s say that you in theory have depleted your battery and are gas to allow for acceleration . The regret is only capable of utilizing that when you are not on the accelerator . Take for instance straight line vs a hilly interstate , which would allow you to utilize regren more ? To say that putting a 4 cyl in a 5 thousand pound vehicle and would allow for great acceleration would be a very underwhelming experience . Your basically saying that a rav 4 or a corolla, with same powertrain , would get same mileage as sienna . Ask yourself this , why did Honda not put a 4 cyl in their van as they are king of 4 cyls . The van prior to this powertrain utilized a 6 cyl and had underwhelming gas mileage , now throw some 20 tires and extra weight with a 4 cyl and you do think that it’s going to get 33 mpg from its previous powertrain ? Drive your vehicle and don’t charge battery for 1000 miles and see what your mileage will be with regen . Regren is only as good as when it’s not into the power mode of acceleration .
I'm sorry, I can't comprehend what you're trying to say. Why do you care about how many cylinders the engine has? What matters for acceleration is how much power it can make. The Sienna powertrain is rated at 243hp, the Pachy at 260hp, 7% more. Under max acceleration the hybrid powertrain will run the ICE at the rpm that gives the most power, and the power coming out doesn't care about how many cylinders it was made in, what the displacement of the engine is, or what RPM it's being made at. Apparently Mercedes makes a 2-liter 4-cylinder engine that makes 416hp. You can bet your ass that if you put that in a minivan it would out-accelerate any of the V6-equipped ones on the market now.

Obviously there are other considerations that determine mpg, like vehicle weight, aerodynamics, and rolling resistance. But those also have nothing to do with the type of engine you have. Neither does how much regen you get because, as you say, regen only makes a difference when you're not accelerating.

The main difference between a 4- and 6-cylinder engine is in how smoothly it runs, more cylinders mean smoother power delivery. But it also generally means worse efficiency at low power (hence the "cylinder deactivation" features that are being added.)
 

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I would bet the Toyota runs smoother/quieter. I have a 2018 limited Pacifica PHEV and just picked up a 2020 sierra 1500 and the what a difference with engine noise. When the engine is active in the Pacifica you can feel/hear it. After the recall the engine noise is is just terrible. If i remote start the sierra verse the Pacifica (with the engine on in cold weather) I can hear the Pacifica in my house over the sierra.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So your telling me that sienna with 243 hp and that’s with electric motors getting juiced by reg braking is going to get 33 mpg . Cmon , it’s down over 50 ho from previous one and weight is up . The best mpg combined on ice version was 22 mpg and because it dropped down to a 4 cyl and 2 electric motors it’s going to get 11 mpg better . The vehicle can barley run on full electric alone at low speed . Charging the battery is only from regen and your telling me that short or long trips your going to see a 11 mpg increase in efficiency . Try it with your pacificas , let battery go to zero and then reset the trip distance and drive 500 miles and see what your overall mpg is . Also factor in that your driving a 6 cyl . Remember horsepower gives you top speed and torque is what moves you . At best your see 22-25 , put on ac and a let’s not forget weather , road conditions . Hey if you guys care to drink the cool aid then good for you but a 4 cyl in a huge vehicle only spells poor mileage and long term durability issues . To obtain a 11 mpg with fwd or awd is any automobile manufacturers dream , more weight smaller motor no possible when do the math .
 

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Totally agree with stop-eject that it looks like a post-crush Sienna (hilarious), but that's the current Toyota styling trend, and they will still sell a ton of these. I think the more interesting part of the new Sienna is that it is hybrid-only. There is no gas-only option! These will be everywhere in a few years, like the current Sienna, and having a hybrid minivan will be considered a no-brainer. If Kia and Honda don't join the party, they will be shut out, IMHO.

Will they make a plug-in Sienna Prime (like the ill-fated Prius Prime plug-in)? Probably not. I think Chrysler has had to fight the mistaken idea that you have to plug the PacHy in every night. Most people hate plugging in their phones every night!

Don't really want to wade into the 4-cylinder hp kerfuffle, but I do know from experience that Toyota knows how to squeeze the most oomph out of their hybrid powertrains when they need to. The 2020 Highlander Hybrid is an example on the road right now, and at close to the same weight as the Sienna (and Pacifica), it still hauls pretty well with that powertrain and AWD.
 

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Totally agree with stop-eject that it looks like a post-crush Sienna (hilarious), but that's the current Toyota styling trend, and they will still sell a ton of these. I think the more interesting part of the new Sienna is that it is hybrid-only. There is no gas-only option! These will be everywhere in a few years, like the current Sienna, and having a hybrid minivan will be considered a no-brainer. If Kia and Honda don't join the party, they will be shut out, IMHO.

Will they make a plug-in Sienna Prime (like the ill-fated Prius Prime plug-in)? Probably not. I think Chrysler has had to fight the mistaken idea that you have to plug the PacHy in every night. Most people hate plugging in their phones every night!

Don't really want to wade into the 4-cylinder hp kerfuffle, but I do know from experience that Toyota knows how to squeeze the most oomph out of their hybrid powertrains when they need to. The 2020 Highlander Hybrid is an example on the road right now, and at close to the same weight as the Sienna (and Pacifica), it still hauls pretty well with that powertrain and AWD.
Totally agree. The new Highlander AWD hybrid has the same engine and comes in around 4600 lb. It is EPA rated/confirmed at 35 mpg city and highway. That is a massive improvement over the current model, as my 2011 Sienna Limited AWD avg is 17 mpg. I would estimate 80% of our driving is local pick up/drop off of one of our 4 kids, activities, sports, etc. I wish the HP was higher but that fuel efficiency improvement is intriguing. I actually really like the profile and rear of the van. Hate the Lexus grill. Wish they were offering a plug in but oh well. Pacifica still looks better to me but I have a personal history of rock solid Toyota reliability. I’ll hold off until crash test results but Toyota is a player again, in my book.


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