2017+ Chrysler Pacifica Minivan Forums banner
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I love our '21 Pinnacle, but man are the issues starting to pile up. We had been using electric almost exclusively up until this past Thursday when FORM kicked on. I've done a decent bit of reading in the manual and in this forum (thank you!) so understand what it is doing mostly. That said, a few primary issues:
  • The average MPG readout from the time I purchased the car showed around 55 mpg.
  • FORM kicked on with the fuel gauge at about 7/8 full. I didn't give it much though, but once it dropped quickly to 3/4 full and an estimated range of just 274 miles (putting the vehicle very well below the ~480 estimated range), I started taking photos. You can see the start here at 802 miles in one of the attached photos.
  • All of a sudden, my average MPG started to decrease quickly. This is after the vehicle already had over 800 miles on it, by the way, indicating to me the mpg at the time had to be extremely low to offset that average.
  • At 851 miles, estimated range had dropped to 199 miles. I continued to drive the car to see how bad things would get (perhaps my mistake), then starting calling dealers for service appointments.
  • During all of this, FORM was on and the battery range of the vehicle showing ~25 miles and 100% charge.
  • A few numbers and final photos included to show current state before I go put the 4 gallons of fuel in to disable FORM:
    • Total vehicle miles: 929.9
    • Electric miles: 703.4
    • Gas Miles: 226.5 (with ~78 miles estimated range remaining)
    • System displayed MPG: 23.9

Pair this with the fact the transmission now sounds like it is going to fall out of the car between first and second gear (can share video of the LOUD clunking sound if helpful), and I'm pretty frustrated. I have had a number of other issues with this van (e.g. PHEV readout shows no driving on days when we absolutely drove the vehicle, rear tailgate button intermittently not working, etc), but this takes the cake.

Any thoughts? Does FORM burn through fuel at an unusually high rate, and should I expect anything from the dealership when I take it in in 2 weeks (first available appointment).


IMG_2237.JPG IMG_2282.JPG IMG_2318.jpg IMG_2255.JPG IMG_2316.JPG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,820 Posts
There are no gears in this transmission like a conventional trranny . Have you put in gas to eliminate the form cycling ? . Have you actually read any of the manuals of this vehicle since you’ve bought it ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
As my original post stated, yes I read the manual. Yes, I also just put more fuel in the vehicle to disable FORM. How to fix that wasn’t the point of my post. If gas mileage is expected to drop to a small fraction of what they should be, that should be explicitly in the manual. Going into FORM also shouldn’t make your vehicle feel like a jerky rollercoaster when driving below 30mph.

I was curious to get others thoughts on “average fuel economy” across 900+ miles, and whether the drop from 50+ to low 20’s over the course of a couple days of short highway trips is normal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
694 Posts
From the pictures, it looks like FORM was burning up almost half a tank in over 100 miles? If so, that's why your average MPGs is so low. Now since you've added gas, reset your Trip B meter. Your average MPG should be much higher now if your primarily drive in EV and not in FORM. Next time when FORM comes on, add at least 4 gallons of gas right away. Are you still hearing loud sounds from the transmission when you're not in FORM anymore?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
From the pictures, it looks like FORM was burning up almost half a tank in over 100 miles? If so, that's why your average MPGs is so low.
Yes, this is the main point I’m hoping to get some feedback on. The rate at which my fuel declined was alarming. Nowhere I’ve looked was I able to see anything that indicated FORM would take gas-only MPG below 10mpg in order to process the burn off. Perhaps that’s implied and undocumented (or I missed it), but if it’s not expected (ie you won’t get hybrid 30mpg, but should still be above 20 and not hear loud jolts in your transmission), I’m just trying to make sure it isn’t something more serious with the drive train. I feel it is going to be hard to explain this to the service department now that it’s off.

Once I added fuel, FORM turned off as expected, as did the jolt and knocking sound. However, I’d like to avoid the repeat situation in the future, and since I’m mostly electric all the time anyway, it seems almost unavoidable up to some point unless I take longer trips or purposely burn up gas again when it kicks on the next time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You’ll see in the display in the instrument panel a display will appear and say oil / gas refresh going on .
I don’t follow. I know what FORM is, and I know when it kicked on by viewing the notice on the instrument panel. My post is to say something is either seriously wrong with my vehicle, or they should advertise that when your vehicle goes into FORM that you’re going to get 5 miles per gallon until you put the necessary 4 gallons in it (because as Trigger-happy noticed, I blew through half a tank of gas going 100 miles - did you see the photos?).

FORM also doesn’t explain the jolts in the vehicle that outside spectators turned to look at when driving through a parking lot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,820 Posts
I’ve had form happen once and all you hear is the motor but this tranny is a one speed so you won’t feel anything from tranny because your driving and the tranny is in motion . You stated between 1 and 2 gear so I’d honestly take a lot what people put up forum with a grain of salt . If your tranny switched from. 1-2 hear you better see if dealership sold you a gas version .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I’ve had form happen once and all you hear is the motor but this tranny is a one speed so you won’t feel anything from tranny because your driving and the tranny is in motion . You stated between 1 and 2 gear so I’d honestly take a lot what people put up forum with a grain of salt . If your tranny switched from. 1-2 hear you better see if dealership sold you a gas version .
You’re right, it’s a CVT. I think you’re trying to be helpful, but comments like “see if dealership sold you a gas version” aren’t. Regardless of any gear shifts I misstated, listen to the jumps at 3s, 10s and right before the end of the video here:


These are not roadbumps. That is me taking my foot on and off the gas at around 30mph just before I put fuel in the tank, and something tells me those sounds aren’t normal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Averaging 24 mpg on a brand new motor doesn't strike me as out of line for a Pinnacle, especially if most of the miles are stop and go in town.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,820 Posts
It’s def not the tranny , and the tranny is a a evt one, I watched your power band and it’s not your motor or tranny that’s making noise .
C28D4C42-AC7C-479B-A2E7-9F332265B246.png
 

·
Registered
2021 Pacifica Hybrid Touring L
Joined
·
39 Posts
Any thoughts? Does FORM burn through fuel at an unusually high rate, and should I expect anything from the dealership when I take it in in 2 weeks (first available appointment).
@jmarston...ignore the rude replies. Like you, FORM came on for me, as expected, after months of almost all electric-only use. Like you, my tank seemed to empty at an alarming rate. FORM stayed on for several days and after I re-filled the tank it went off. A few days later and everything seems to be back to normal. I think the reason the tank seemed to empty so quickly is because frankly the van doesn't get great fuel economy when not in electric or hybrid mode. That should be obvious, but when you're used to the incredible electric economy, it can take you by surprise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jmarston4

·
Registered
2019 Pacifica Hybrid Limited
Joined
·
10 Posts
I'll just add a couple things. I've had FORM come on twice with ours - only owned since earlier this year. Could the noise and jerky feeling be the engine turning on and off instead of the transmission? I seem to remember it being strangely jerky when FORM was on, where otherwise it seems to be almost unnoticeable. Possibly because it's picking a different time to turn the engine on/off with FORM on.
Can't really say much on the mileage during FORM as we've tried to add gas quickly, but keep in mind it's not running in the usual hybrid mode with FORM on. The battery isn't really being used much, and in fact I've found it'll actually recharge the battery when in FORM. Really seems like it's trying to use as much gas as possible in this mode.
Better test might be to run your battery down and see if the mileage in hybrid only mode is as expected. If not, then there's likely a problem. The dealer probably won't care what the mileage is during FORM as I don't think most of them even really understand it. There's more details on FORM in these forums than you'd ever be able to get from a dealer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,820 Posts
@jmarston...ignore the rude replies. Like you, FORM came on for me, as expected, after months of almost all electric-only use. Like you, my tank seemed to empty at an alarming rate. FORM stayed on for several days and after I re-filled the tank it went off. A few days later and everything seems to be back to normal. I think the reason the tank seemed to empty so quickly is because frankly the van doesn't get great fuel economy when not in electric or hybrid mode. That should be obvious, but when you're used to the incredible electric economy, it can take you by surprise.
The van only runs on either electric or hybrid mode . Even in form your running on hybrid mode . The reason the van is plummeting in gas consumption has no bearing on vans mileage . So making comments about it not running on ehybrid and full on gas mode is just shows your lack of knowledge . The battery never drops below state of charge ans you will always use the powertrain of electric truck or engine/electric truck . Mileage is based upon your driving style , weather , weight , etc . The comments are based upon people’s lack of knowledge of the vehicle and the ability to learn about the vehicle prior or during current ownership . During winter months here in Toronto , with dedicated snows , the vehicle still gets great mileage . We understand that not every vehicle is perfect , vast amount of people who post here are posting complaints , but at least due your due diligence about the pros and cons of any vehicle .
 

·
Registered
2019 Pacifica Hybrid Limited
Joined
·
10 Posts
The van only runs on either electric or hybrid mode . Even in form your running on hybrid mode . The reason the van is plummeting in gas consumption has no bearing on vans mileage . So making comments about it not running on ehybrid and full on gas mode is just shows your lack of knowledge . The battery never drops below state of charge ans you will always use the powertrain of electric truck or engine/electric truck . Mileage is based upon your driving style , weather , weight , etc . The comments are based upon people’s lack of knowledge of the vehicle and the ability to learn about the vehicle prior or during current ownership . During winter months here in Toronto , with dedicated snows , the vehicle still gets great mileage . We understand that not every vehicle is perfect , vast amount of people who post here are posting complaints , but at least due your due diligence about the pros and cons of any vehicle .
If it was truly running the same, it wouldn't recharge the battery. Running in the true hybrid mode would keep the battery at a constant charge. Yes, it is technically using battery as that's how the system is designed, so saying it's always hybrid is technically correct. But there is certainly a difference in mileage and how it behave in FORM. You don't get a recharged battery for free.
Not sure why people here are so quick to go and complain about everything they read without actually trying to understand it. The attitude above is certainly a good example of what turns people off these forums. I'm actually not even sure what the "plummeting in gas consumption has no bearing on vans mileage" means. Aren't gas consumption and mileage pretty closely tied?
 

·
Registered
2021 Pacifica Hybrid Touring L
Joined
·
39 Posts
The attitude above is certainly a good example of what turns people off these forums. I'm actually not even sure what the "plummeting in gas consumption has no bearing on vans mileage" means. Aren't gas consumption and mileage pretty closely tied?
I am henceforth ignoring everything from said user...not worth my time or frustration. People can have discussions about how a system works without needing to be attacked or called ignorant, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: triggerhappy007

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Averaging 24 mpg on a brand new motor doesn't strike me as out of line for a Pinnacle, especially if most of the miles are stop and go in town.
If a true blended average I might agree with you, but I don’t think that’s the case here (and far below the 30mpg estimate even in city). As I noted in my first post and photos posted, 703.4 miles are electric only with about 50-100 mixed with some gas for one long trip back the day I bought the van. The average at that time was over 50. The next 100 miles or so was form only and took the entire average down below 24. That means the mpg during that time was abysmal - and again - half a tank of gas on 100 miles with at least 3/4 of that on highway. That is not expected (and as far I can have read in forums and manuals, not noted anywhere).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
The only sure way to determine gas mileage is to fill the tank and divide the miles driven on gas by the number of gallons added. And even that won't give you a totally accurate number because the electric battery still kicks in every so often.

As I understand it, you are saying that the fuel gauge went from full to 3/4 after 50 to 100 miles of hybrid use, right? The fuel tank holds 16.5 gallons, so if the gauge is accurate, you used a bit over 4 gallons to go 50 to 100 miles. In turn, that means your gas mileage was somewhere between 12.5 and 25 mpg during that period if you rely on the gauge. Those numbers are a long way from the displayed 50 mpg.

The knocking/jolt is the real cause for concern. The dealer won't be able to duplicate if it is not in FORM and so will not address the issue unless there are codes to pinpoint an issue. When a I test drove a Pacifica hybrid, it happened to be in FORM at the time and it displayed no such odd behavior.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top