Oil Analysis To Help Understand Head Gasket/Engine Failure Issue

3183 Views 74 Replies 13 Participants Last post by jongri, 3 d ago

M0Par

Discussion Starter · 26 d ago (Edited)

Decided to send in an oil sample on a 2019 Pacifica with 27,595 miles. This may show early signs of whatever is causing these head gasket/engine failures. Have no idea what the results will show but I'll document it here when the lab provides results in a week.

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jongri

· #21 · 23 d ago (Edited)

VelvetRedAWD said:
Does Mobil 1 meet MS specs these days? It used to, many years ago.

M0Par said:
Was this intended for another thread?

Here's what @freddief73 was answering @VelvetRedAWD(s) post #13 (top question) "Does Mobil 1 meet MS specs these days?"

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VelvetRedAWD

· #22 · 23 d ago

freddief73 said:
It probably does, but they don't pay the fee to license said specification so they can't print it on the bottle. It doesn't matter anyways as it pertains to keeping your warranty valid. As long as you're using an API certified 0W20 oil you're meeting that requirement.

Not using Chrysler MS spec oil can jeopardize your warranty, according to a local dealer.
Personally, I’d just use MS and not worry about it!

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freddief73

· #23 · 23 d ago

VelvetRedAWD said:
Not using Chrysler MS spec oil can jeopardize your warranty, according to a local dealer.
Personally, I’d just use MS and not worry about it!

I recommend researching the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act and closely reading your owners manual. I'm confident you'll also conclude that your local dealership is incorrect. Of course, you're welcome to use whatever oil you like if it puts you at ease.

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VelvetRedAWD

· #24 · 22 d ago

The M-M act refers to using branded items to maintain a warranty.
That would be making you use MoPar oil.
It appears that Mobil 1 does meet the MS spec, maybe because they were losing sales. I guess I don’t understand why someone would not use an MS spec oil when it’s recommended in the owner manual and readily available.
All the engineering and engine testing is done with Pennzoil MS oil. FWIW, Pennzoil has been the factory fill for over 20 years.
Funny how folks spend many tens of thousands on a vehicle, then try to save pennies doing maintenance!

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PacificaMinivanFan

· #25 · 22 d ago

VelvetRedAWD said:
The M-M act refers to using branded items to maintain a warranty.
That would be making you use MoPar oil.
It appears that Mobil 1 does meet the MS spec, maybe because they were losing sales. I guess I don’t understand why someone would not use an MS spec oil when it’s recommended in the owner manual and readily available.
All the engineering and engine testing is done with Pennzoil MS oil. FWIW, Pennzoil has been the factory fill for over 20 years.
Funny how folks spend many tens of thousands on a vehicle, then try to save pennies doing maintenance!

IIRC, the owner's manual states MS-6395 certified oil is "recommended,' not required; so I don't think using another spec of 0W-20 full-synthetic oil would affect the warranty. This is in contrast to what the owner's manual says about engine coolant where using anything other than MS-12106 will cause engine damage unless the error is caught quickly the engine is completely flushed with the correct coolant.

jongri

· #26 · 22 d ago

As a member of this wonderful Forum I just wanted to acknowledge the 2 Forum members that have done a fantastic job attempting to help resolve the Engine Failure issue by going the extra mile and putting it front and center for us all.
Thank you @PacificaMinivanFan

for taking this important issue head on with your threads & posts you've both done an incredible service for our community and it hasn't gone unnoticed.

PacificaMinivanFan

· #27 · 22 d ago

jongri said:
As a member of this wonderful Forum I just wanted to acknowledge the 2 Forum members that have done a fantastic job attempting to help resolve the Engine Failure issue by going the extra mile and putting it front and center for us all.
Thank you @PacificaMinivanFan & @MOPar for taking this important issue head on with your threads & posts you've both done an incredible service for our community and it hasn't gone unnoticed.

Thank you for the kind words. The goal is to determine what, if anything, owner's must do, or not do, to ensure they don't end up with failed engines, and to make whole those that have paid thousands for engine repairs.

There can be no denying that my wife and I love our Pacificas, much more than our previous Chrysler minivans.

As things stand now, if the Pacifica brand fails due to overwhelming horrible accounts of ownership experience, well, it's on Chrysler.

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VelvetRedAWD

· #28 · 22 d ago

Keep in mind that forums are where folks vent with like minded individuals.
The vast majority of folks don’t have any issues and aren’t on forums.
This goes for ANY subject!!!

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gmfreak

· #29 · 22 d ago

For what it's worth I have only used Royal Purple or Mobil 1 (high mileage extended performance) in all my engines. Never have I had one fail due to oil issues. The best preventative measures anyone can take regarding this issue with blown head gaskets is to keep an eye on your coolant level, change your oil within the interval needed (I go 10K or when the engine oil life indicator states) and here's the key step regarding your oil - Send it away for analysis. It'll give you a good idea of any abnormal wear or in my case a fluid which was not supposed to be present. As you can see from my previous post with my engine oil analysis my oil still had plenty of life to it even at 10K miles. It was just contaminated with coolant.

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jongri

· #30 · 21 d ago (Edited)

VelvetRedAWD said:
Keep in mind that forums are where folks vent with like minded individuals.
The vast majority of folks don’t have any issues and aren’t on forums.
This goes for ANY subject!!!

I've seen enough pictured threads on numerous Chrysler Minivan Forums of Beat up Old Chrysler Minivans with completely Bald Tires literally held together by Rust, Bondo, Superglue & Duct Tape to believe every word of your statement. Worst of all is that they're Fully mis Maintained by their Self Professed, Backyard, Expert, unCertified Mechanic Owners claiming to know more & better than every actual Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep Certified Mopar Mechanic to not doubt a single word of your statement.
I'm not saying everyone who does their own maintenance is like this just that many who do are. I have no doubt as to Maintenance Negligence (ignoring Recommended Schedules, using Cheapest, Non Synthetic Oils, wrong Coolant & Transmission Fluids, not replacing Filters or Worn weeping Gaskets when needed, never reading their owners manuals, etc. as being the major cause of most (not all) of these small percentage of V-6 3.6L Pentastar Engine Failures. And yes after doing everything wrong many will come here to vent then disappear into the night because they can't handle criticisms from the many owners here that actually do their own maintenance correctly.

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PacificaMinivanFan

· #31 · 21 d ago

jongri said:
I've seen enough pictured threads on numerous Chrysler Minivan Forums of Beat up Old Chrysler Minivans with completely Bald Tires literally held together by Rust, Bondo, Superglue & Duct Tape to believe every word of your statement. Worst of all is that they're Fully mis Maintained by their Self Professed, Backyard, Expert, unCertified Mechanic Owners claiming to know more & better than every actual Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep Certified Mopar Mechanic to not doubt a single word of your statement.
I'm not saying everyone who does their own maintenance is like this just that many who do are. I have no doubt as to Maintenance Negligence (ignoring Recommended Schedules, using Cheapest, Non Synthetic Oils, wrong Coolant & Transmission Fluids, not replacing Filters or Worn weeping Gaskets when needed, never reading their owners manuals, etc. as being the major cause of most (not all) of these small percentage of V-6 3.6L Pentastar Engine Failures. And yes after doing everything wrong many will come here to vent then disappear into the night because they can't handle criticisms from the many owners here that actually do their own maintenance correctly.

+1 here. I can't help but wonder how many of the engine failures reported on this forum and on FB are from owners who hardly ever open the hood of their Pacificas!

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M0Par

Discussion Starter · #32 · 21 d ago

PacificaMinivanFan said:
+1 here. I can't help but wonder how many of the engine failures reported on this forum and on FB are from owners who hardly ever open the hood of their Pacificas!

Weird how after 40 years there's a rash of head gasket issues. Couldn't be a manufacturer defect. Naw. A manufacturer has never done that before. Especially Chrysler!

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gmfreak

· #33 · 21 d ago

I'm one that constantly checks my engine and the hood is opened often. I check all my fluids, refill my washer fluid and do sniff tests and listen for any abnormal noises. I've always done this and I will continue to do it. The only way I caught this head gasket issue is because of my constant checking. Otherwise it would have overheated and it would have been for the lack of a better phrase FUBARed. I see tons of older generation Chrysler and Dodge vans out there held together with duct tape and super glue, but it seems the newer generations aren't seen nearly as often around here after 5-6 years. There's gotta be something that's contributing to that. It seems to start with model year 2008 and newer. It's the older ones I see driving around especially the fourth generation. Heck I even see a 1993 in pretty good condition driving around. I think this issue is more widespread than anyone thinks. It's just not reported and the people move on to a different brand. All I know is I'm glad I'm one that checks under the hood and I have my extended warranty. Even with that I've put way more into this van than I ever thought I would be, and the electrical gremlins haven't even surfaced yet. I'm sure that's only a matter of time.

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M0Par

Discussion Starter · #34 · 21 d ago

gmfreak said:
I'm one that constantly checks my engine and the hood is opened often. I check all my fluids, refill my washer fluid and do sniff tests and listen for any abnormal noises. I've always done this and I will continue to do it. The only way I caught this head gasket issue is because of my constant checking. Otherwise it would have overheated and it would have been for the lack of a better phrase FUBARed. I see tons of older generation Chrysler and Dodge vans out there held together with duct tape and super glue, but it seems the newer generations aren't seen nearly as often around here after 5-6 years. There's gotta be something that's contributing to that. It seems to start with model year 2008 and newer. It's the older ones I see driving around especially the fourth generation. Heck I even see a 1993 in pretty good condition driving around. I think this issue is more widespread than anyone thinks. It's just not reported and the people move on to a different brand. All I know is I'm glad I'm one that checks under the hood and I have my extended warranty. Even with that I've put way more into this van than I ever thought I would be, and the electrical gremlins haven't even surfaced yet. I'm sure that's only a matter of time.

Bingo. Can't wait for the class action.

jongri

· #35 · 21 d ago (Edited)

M0Par said:
Weird how after 40 years there's a rash of head gasket issues. Couldn't be a manufacturer defect. Naw. A manufacturer has never done that before. Especially Chrysler!

I don't discount the Manufacturer Defect it's impossible to dismiss. Especially when some Engine Failures
are happening to Pacificas with Original Owners that have followed all recommended Maintenance. Seems like only a small % fall into that category though. Most reported failures (here at least) seem to be happening on previously owned, high mileage Pacificas where 2nd owner doesn't have full documented maintenance history pre 2nd ownership. Go to any Chrysler Minivan Forum website & it's easy to see the many Self-Professed Mechanical Guru's
own pictured threads demonstrating their Genius & Average Joe Expert Advice at work if one doubts owner maintenance neglect having a huge role in some of these failures. FOR THE RECORD I hope every person whose experienced this terrible Engine Failure is made whole by FCA Stellantis Chrysler Corp.

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VelvetRedAWD

· #36 · 21 d ago

10,000,000+ 3.6L engines built.
If there was an accurate number of head gasket issues, bet it would be .01%

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jongri

· #37 · 20 d ago (Edited)

VelvetRedAWD said:
10,000,000+ 3.6L engines built.
If there was an accurate number of head gasket issues, bet it would be .01%

Yes agreed. That leads us back to the Real question "Why is the percentage higher on our 6th Generation Pacificas" but not so much with all the other Mopar vehicles using same V-6 3.6L Pentastar Engine since 2010?

jongri

· #38 · 20 d ago

The fact that we know this has happened to dedicated Pacifica owners (some of our own long time members here) that we know have done everything right maintenance wise and not just 2nd time Pacifica owners that probably never even read their owners manual let alone opened their hoods joining here simply to vent is the real conundrum.

jongri

· #39 · 20 d ago

@MOPar I'm hoping for the sake of your relatives that the Oil Analysis you've sent out to Blackstone Labs from their Beautiful 2021 Pacifica Limited comes back clean as I'm sure you are also 🤞.

PacificaMinivanFan

· #40 · 20 d ago

gmfreak said:
I'm one that constantly checks my engine and the hood is opened often. I check all my fluids, refill my washer fluid and do sniff tests and listen for any abnormal noises. I've always done this and I will continue to do it. The only way I caught this head gasket issue is because of my constant checking. Otherwise it would have overheated and it would have been for the lack of a better phrase FUBARed.

PacificaMinivanFan said:
+1 here. I can't help but wonder how many of the engine failures reported on this forum and on FB are from owners who hardly ever open the hood of their Pacificas!

Nuts! @gmfreak just killed my theory. I was hoping the cause was neglect of the cooling system where the engine coolant reservoir would be filled with the wrong fluid and/or would be allowed to run bone dry, thus letting air into the system.

So, yeah, if not owner neglect, that pretty much leaves manufacturing defect.

We're all screwed!

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