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Oil change

44K views 43 replies 18 participants last post by  buddy 
#1 ·
Can I use synthetic blend?
 
#2 ·
Yes, of course, as long as it is "API Certified SAE 0W-20 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395." I believe in full synthetic however, I don't think the savings of a blend outweigh the benefits of full synthetic, but then again I tend to go overboard with that kind of stuff.
 
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#6 ·
It doesn't know what oil you are using, but it does know how many hours you use it, what the engine temperature was and a host of other parameters. They all factor in to an algorithm that determines when your oil change time is. It is certainly not perfect, but it is way better than simply specifying a given number of miles, since the conditions those miles were driven can be highly variable. Most people tend to underestimate the severity of their driving conditions. Far more of us fall in to the "severe" category than we think.

You could take an oil sample and for about $30 send if off to have it analyzed and determine if your oil is still serviceable. I do that myself, but it is far from cost effective. Most of us would be far better off from an economic perspective to just change our oil when the system suggests.
 
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#5 ·
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#7 ·
Fantastic, thanks. Getting one for the Accord and one for the Pacy. I'm not due any time soon but I'm losing money not taking this deal. The oil will keep just fine in the garage for another 7,000 miles. Save the receipt for documentation, mark the date and miles of the service on the receipt.
 
#8 ·
Jumping in to this thread: Does the Pacifica require full synthetic? Dealer Service just told me this and I did not check the manual beforehand.
$79.99 for seven quarts of synthetic. Sounds pricey to me but I really don't know.
Thanks, John
 
#12 ·
Happy News - only paid for 5 quarts of oil. They completed 2 recalls - 2nd row seatbelt and ECR module (or whatever). Plus I asked them for the update for the remote start that sets the temp to Low. They completed that as well and I am eager to try it!
Got my baby back -very happy. They gave me a Jeep Patriot loaner - holy cow was that thing terrible!
John
 
#13 ·
Still waiting on the oil change message to come on.

Getting close to 9,000 miles.

My oil change routine is 4 months 4K miles regardless of what the computer says.

Penzoil Syn 0W/20 was the cheapest at Wally world (Walmart) last month.

There's a Youtube video on the Pacifica oil change and shows how to get that plastic flap out of the way.

Happy DIYer,

Greg
 
#14 ·
If you are using the cheapest oil you can find, then 4 mos, 4K miles may be appropriate. With a high quality oil made for "extended" drain intervals (and a good filter) much longer intervals will not negatively impact the engine. I am an Amsoil fan, and have been using annual oil changes for about 20 years. I will periodically send my oil for analysis and it routinely comes back saying I still have life left in the oil at the end of a year (although my VW 1.8T had a 5K change interval from VW and Amsoil recommended the same came back from analysis saying the oil was done at 5K)

To each his own. A person could change oil every weekend if they wanted, and it would certainly do no harm. I would just rather not spend the time without a perceived benefit. When I get a few more miles on my Pac, I will send off a sample for analysis and I'll post what comes back.
 
#15 ·
I had our Pacifica first oil change done at 3k miles. I am not a fan of the 10k oil change. I asked the dealer to use full synthetic - but when I picked it up, they had used a blend. They charged me for a blend. I was also very frustrated with the dealer service - they have no idea what customer service is basically.

I am going to have it changed at 6k miles at my local Valvoline where they have always done a great job for me. Will be putting in full synthetic then.

Chrysler made a terrific minvan - but it is still stuck with terrible dealers unfortunately.
 
#16 ·
I am not a fan of the 10k oil change.
I hear you. I started driving in the 70's and there is no way that I would have considered 10K oil changes in my first cars. Technology has come a long way since then. I was skeptical when I read about the first "sealed" transmissions whose fluid is intended to last the lifetime of the car but they seem to work quite well and are generally not the component that sends the vehicle to the salvage yard.

Oil analysis ultimately made a believer out of me. It is fairly expensive, at $25 per test, but I just had to know. When I discovered that I had been discarding perfectly good oil, I had to reconsider my belief set. Should it be some arbitrary number like 3K miles, like the paradigm that existed when my dad was a teenager, ignoring the advances in metallurgy and chemistry? And if so, where should you put that arbitrary number? I had a friend of mine years ago who never laundered his underwear - he threw it out after the first wearing. He made weekly purchases. I had no luck convincing him that perhaps he should wait until it actually showed signs of approaching the end of its useful service life; he would have none of it.

It is certainly true that not all oil is created equal, and there are formulations that are specifically designed to tolerate longer service lives. They do tend to be a bit more expensive since the base stock and additive packages that contribute to that longer service life aren't cheap. I am convinced, based on my experience looking at my own data, that a high quality oil formulated for extended intervals can easily go 10K miles if the vehicle is not regularly operated in severe conditions,
 
#17 ·
Oil Change Food Fight....

Pacifica oil change indicator not coming on at 9,000 miles is at odds with Chrysler's T&C 2012 Service manual:

"The oil change indicator message will illuminate approximately 7, 000 miles (11 200 km) after the most recent
oil change was performed. Have your vehicle serviced as soon as possible, within 500 miles (800 km).
However, an earlier oil change at 3, 000 miles (5 000 km) may be required if the vehicle is operated under
"Severe Duty Conditions" later in this information."

Here's what the Service Manual considers Severe Duty Conditions:

"Change the engine oil and engine oil filter at every 3, 000 miles (5 000 km) or 3 months if using your
vehicle under any of the following severe duty conditions:
 Stop and go driving.
 Driving in dusty conditions.
 Short trips of less than 10 miles (16 km).
 Trailer towing.
 Taxi, police, or delivery service (commercial service).
 Off-road or desert operation."

Half of my driving falls under 1 and 3.... (city driving). So, I guess I fall under somewhat severe,.... maybe 4 months or 4K miles is pretty close to the Service Manual.

More caveats on oil changes from the 2012 Service Manual:

 The oil change indicator message will not monitor the time since the last
oil change. Change your vehicle's oil if it has been six months since your
last oil change, even if the oil change indicator message is NOT
illuminated.
 Under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 7, 500 miles
(12 000 km) or six months, whichever comes first.

OK so six months is drop dead regardless of mileage..... interesting..... I learned something.

Greg
 
#19 ·
Oil Change Food Fight....
Right you are. If you really want to get a group of guys in a yelling match, start talking about engine oil.

Pacifica oil change indicator not coming on at 9,000 miles is at odds with Chrysler's T&C 2012 Service manual:

"The oil change indicator message will illuminate approximately 7, 000 miles (11 200 km) after the most recent
oil change was performed. Have your vehicle serviced as soon as possible, within 500 miles (800 km).
However, an earlier oil change at 3, 000 miles (5 000 km) may be required if the vehicle is operated under
"Severe Duty Conditions" later in this information."

Here's what the Service Manual considers Severe Duty Conditions:

"Change the engine oil and engine oil filter at every 3, 000 miles (5 000 km) or 3 months if using your
vehicle under any of the following severe duty conditions:
 Stop and go driving.
 Driving in dusty conditions.
 Short trips of less than 10 miles (16 km).
 Trailer towing.
 Taxi, police, or delivery service (commercial service).
 Off-road or desert operation."

Half of my driving falls under 1 and 3.... (city driving). So, I guess I fall under somewhat severe,.... maybe 4 months or 4K miles is pretty close to the Service Manual.

More caveats on oil changes from the 2012 Service Manual:

 The oil change indicator message will not monitor the time since the last
oil change. Change your vehicle's oil if it has been six months since your
last oil change, even if the oil change indicator message is NOT
illuminated.
 Under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 7, 500 miles
(12 000 km) or six months, whichever comes first.

OK so six months is drop dead regardless of mileage..... interesting..... I learned something.

Greg
And, for the 2012 T&C, that is indeed the manufacturer's recommendation. The very same manufacturer recommends 10K and 12 months for the 2017/18 Pacifica. Should we believe the manufacturer? If so, in which instance?

Nonetheless, if you do a lot of stop and go and short trips where the oil never really heats up enough to burn off accumulated moisture and then cools down again so that more moisture condenses in the oil, then oil life will indeed be substantially reduced.

Many would consider early oil changes to be cheap insurance and there is strong merit to that argument. In the absence of any data to the contrary, I would probably subscribe to the same school of thought. Experience with engines that have capacities in the tens of quarts where an oil change can be hundreds of dollars has enhanced my understanding. When the SOAP (Spectroscopic Oil Analysis Program) sample comes back and says "no significant engine wear, oil still serviceable," we don't change the oil. I've learned that the manufacturer tends to get it pretty close to right. If your conditions are not severe, the 1 year/10K number is likely legitimate.
 
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#20 ·
On second thought most of my driving is city driving..... trips less than 10 miles, in stop and go traffic.

Except for a trip between cities, say once a month, it's almost the same routine through-out the week.

So, city driving is closer to Severe Driving, than not......

(the reason I pulled from the 2012 Chrysler Service Manual is that's what I had a copy of on my computer...for

my 2012 T&C that I still own....).

Greg
 
#21 ·
I don't have my Pac manual handy but I seem to recall similar "severe duty" verbiage. If one meets the severe duty criteria, it matters not whether the interval is from 2012 or 2017. While FCA changed the interval, AFAIK the severe duty rules are the same which is the important piece of your post.
 
#24 ·
There's a PDF of the Pacifica Owner's Manual online:

https://www.chrysler.com/download/pdf/manuals/2017-Pacifica-OM-1st.pdf

They kept the Severe Duty in there but increased the mileage from 3000 to 3500 from the 2012 Chrysler Service Manual.

But as noted in this thread previously, they increased the "drop dead" limits to 1 year and 10,000 miles (up from 6 months and 7,500 miles in 2012).

Funny, it's the same company and same engine but the numbers changed.... just following the trend of other companies to go longer between oil changes, my guess.
 
#25 ·
There's a PDF of the Pacifica Owner's Manual online:

https://www.chrysler.com/download/pdf/manuals/2017-Pacifica-OM-1st.pdf

They kept the Severe Duty in there but increased the mileage from 3000 to 3500 from the 2012 Chrysler Service Manual.

But as noted in this thread previously, they increased the "drop dead" limits to 1 year and 10,000 miles (up from 6 months and 7,500 miles in 2012).

Funny, it's the same company and same engine but the numbers changed.... just following the trend of other companies to go longer between oil changes, my guess.
There are a couple of things in the manual that make you scratch you head. The manual says that operating under Severe Operating Conditions can cause the oil change indicator to come on in as few as 3500 miles, but then a couple of pages later it says that if operating in those conditions you should change at 4000 miles. Hmmm. I think the trend towards longer intervals recognizes the advances both in material and lubrication technology as well as the desire by consumers to have a vehicle that requires less maintenance. Fewer changes also has a positive environmental impact. One has to imagine that the manufacturer is going to err on the conservative side, however, because they certainly don't want to be paying for unnecessary warranty repairs, especially given the trend towards longer warranty periods.
 
#26 ·
I heard an opinion that the recent shift to the 0W oils is driven by requirements to maximize the fuel efficiency and these thin oils have inferior lubricating properties. If the goal is to prolong the engine life, a 5W oil would be a better choice.
 
#27 ·
I'm sure the 0W oils help fuel efficiency, but I don't know that it necessarily follows that they have inferior lubricating properties. They should certainly flow better and possibly distribute more quickly on startup. The better oils still have impressive film strength and shear stability even a 0W.
 
#29 ·
Getting close to 9200 miles on the odometer and the oil change system says I have 9% left before the first change.

So, it looks like I will clear 10,000 mi for the first oil change.

Still under 1 year of operation so I'll be in compliance with the Owners Manual.

Any others out there have this experience (getting 10K miles before the oil change message goes off)...?

Since I do mostly city driving I am surprised that I would clear 10K miles.

As I said before I do my oil changes on a 4K miles and 4 months so the above is just information.

Greg
 
#36 ·
At what percentage on the Oil Life Indicator are folks changing their oil? To date, I've gone to the dealer at about 20% mostly because I had other (small) issues to address. Does the car notify you as you approach 0% or 10K miles? Just wondering if I can get closer to 0% as a rule.
 
#37 ·
At what percentage on the Oil Life Indicator are folks changing their oil?[/QUOTE
I would recommend changing your oil whichever comes first:
1) Indicator says 0%
2) 365 days have passed since your last oil change
3) Your ICE engine has seen 10k miles.


I doubt #3 would happen before #1. For many, I'm guessing #2 would occur well before the other two. Even premium 15k extended life oil requires you change it after 1 year, even if it only has 3k miles on it. So FCA's reco to change after a year per the manual is a good principle. Only exception is your first oil change. Might be good to change a bit prematurely due to break-in.
 
#39 ·
"I think it is programmed such that #1 will occur at #3. "

I don't think it is that simple. Previous Chrysler products I have had with the oil change monitor would call for changes much, much earlier in the cold winter months with short trips. As early as 6000 miles.
Summer, with long trips would call for an OC at 10 or even 11000 miles.
 
#40 ·
"I think it is programmed such that #1 will occur at #3. "

I don't think it is that simple. Previous Chrysler products I have had with the oil change monitor would call for changes much, much earlier in the cold winter months with short trips. As early as 6000 miles.
Summer, with long trips would call for an OC at 10 or even 11000 miles.

I misspoke. What I meant to say that was that if 3 occurs, 1 will occur. You are absolutely right that 1 could occur MUCH earlier than 3, but no later.
 
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#41 ·
Its been a while since any new input. My 2018 is around 9000 miles and 9 months since I bought it, however, it was manufactured and the oil put in it probably 15 months ago. I bought it in late October 2018, but the molten gold color said it hadn't been used in production since like April 2018.

As for how much oil you use, it can vary depending on how you access the oil pan. In my last vehicle, a Chevy Equinox, if you use a lift to drain then 1/2-3/4 quart would stay in the pan/engine. And the few times I had the oil changed by any business it came back overfilled. But when I jacked the front end up while on my driveway that is also at about 20 degree angle, then it would take 1/2-3/4 qt more, which was the amount the manual called for.

Additionally, it might matter if you turn off the feature that shuts off the engine at stops. I hate that feature for stop signs, actual stop and go situations, but at a stop light its not too bad. Most of the time I disable it. Starting and stopping the engine may be more severe duty than just idling the engine for like 10 seconds on most of those stops.
 
#44 · (Edited)
I just changed mine, and when I initially added 5 quarts it certainly showed almost to the top of the dipstick hatch marks. So full, sorta.

However, I now believe there could be a difference in how people are coming to this conclusion. After I started the engine up and let the new oil circulate, fill the filter and what not, then shut down, it showed about a quart low when I checked after about 5 minutes of it sitting. I decided to wait another 5 minutes and it barely came up a little higher on the dipstick, so I decided to just go ahead and add another half, probably more like 5/8 quart actually. Then I ran the engine again for a couple minutes for the idle to calm down, let it sit for about 15 minutes with the dipstick out and fill cap off. When I went to check it again, it was then just a bit under full.

So I would call that 5.5 quarts is appropriate. Now if you let it set overnight I am sure more will drip back into the pan, but not went and soaked into the filter and a bit here and there in the heads, etc... So just because the pan showed 5 quarts full after just dumping it into the filler and it goes straight to the pan, I am on board with not calling that full. Especially when I got about 4.75 quarts of old oil out of the engine back into the 5qt oil bottle. After 9000 miles some probably burned and the oil that was in my filter and bits still left in the engine and on the rags of my wiping it up, etc... more than likely it started with more than 5 quarts.

I think waiting 15 minutes with the oil cap off is a good test of oil level in a warmish engine. That and I leave the dipstick out for a while just so the tube drains and I don't get any extra off the tube walls. I am also a little particular with using levels when checking the oil. My Equinox was all over the place with just a little tilt in any direction, and my driveway is not flat at all anywhere. No concrete surface should be flat anyway, for water to drain, even the garage floor, but thats probably only like 5 degree tilt in the garage. Too much stuff in the garage to get in there, so I have to either drive somewhere level (hard to tell for sure), or roll down to the bottom of the driveway, into the road and at some point its about level, and I check the left to right with an actual bubble level to make sure its close (or I have to turn the wheels a bit or move the car to get it close to level).

I also noticed a little more coming out when I brought the jack down and had the van close to level after it had stopped dripping (my driveway is at a slight angle where I had it, with the nose end a little higher still). And I had a bit more come out when I then jacked up the driver side front (partly because my driveway also tilts down that way a bit). All in all, maybe like 1/5 of a quart between going level and raising the driver side, so not a whole lot. So if you drive up on ramps or on a hill, some may not come out, or if its leaning to the drivers side.

So when checking the oil and what is the capacity and what is full there perhaps needs to be a standard for how to take those measurements.
 
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