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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I thought that I would share my experience with installing Open Pilot in my 2017 Pacifica Hybrid. I've been intrigued by self-driving technology and always hoped the standard lane keep assist (LKAS) would have been better in my Pacifica. I've been doing some research on the subject, and decided to give Open Pilot a chance.

Here is a video of my setup:

Everything was purchased from: Comma.ai

I purchased:
  • EON Dev Kit
  • FCA Giraffe
  • Panda
So far it's working very well. I've noticed it performs much better on the highway than surface roads. It's much better than the standard LKAS. It also looks like they provide regular updates. It was not hard to do at all and anyone with some basic technical experience will be able to do it without issue. If anyone has any questions about my setup or how it performs, I would be happy to assist.
 

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Why?
 

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Have you given any thought to the liability that you’re exposing yourself to?
That is my point exactly as to asking WHY?

The Pacifcia was not engineered or designed for this. While I am an IT Professional, I would NEVER do this due to the liability, or potentially killing myself, or someone else, or their kids. Then public documentation of this? Plus it is open-source software. What security measures are in place to make sure someone does not screw with it?

While driving I DO care about the others on the road and realize they are Grandparents, Moms, Dads, and Children. They depend on me just as much as I depend on them. I want to make it home at the end of the day.

I saw another video of someone else doing this on YouTube with the people in the front acting like idiots waving their hands in the air all over the place. (just shook head)

If it was this easy the Waymo Pacifica would not look the way it does.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
To each their own, right? I understand expressing your own opinion to not do this yourself for your own reasons, so long as you respect my opinion for using this technology in a safe and responsible way.

I am still responsible for the control of the vehicle. I see this as a driver assistance feature and not something that I will ever use irresponsibly. I see it as no different than using my adaptive cruise control. Im ready to take over at any time because I understand the limitations of the system and that anything can happen. What is the liability when someone is using their ACC and they have an accident? I’m no lawyer, but I think they would be at fault regardless if they caused the accident.

I’m a fan of technology and exploring the potential in automation in our lives. I think it’s exciting to see what this car can do and I will continue to explore, responsibly.

Thank you for comments and concern.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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You can say to each their own, but you’re sharing the road with others and risking their lives, too. I’m an attorney, and can’t imagine ever being willing to take on the kind of risk you’re assuming. Beyond lives, you’re putting your financial future at risk, too. Have you asked your insurance company if your policy is valid while using this?
 

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What is the liability when someone is using their ACC and they have an accident?
The system was designed and engineered by the manufacturer, D.O.T approved, and hands-on the wheel in full control. The liability escalates when one claims to know more about the vehicle than the manufacture and self-driving technology. I would highly recommend you consult an attorney and they will enlighten you.

Good luck with your ventures into this.
 

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That is my point exactly as to asking WHY?

The Pacifcia was not engineered or designed for this. While I am an IT Professional, I would NEVER do this due to the liability, or potentially killing myself, or someone else, or their kids. Then public documentation of this? Plus it is open-source software. What security measures are in place to make sure someone does not screw with it?

While driving I DO care about the others on the road and realize they are Grandparents, Moms, Dads, and Children. They depend on me just as much as I depend on them. I want to make it home at the end of the day.

I saw another video of someone else doing this on YouTube with the people in the front acting like idiots waving their hands in the air all over the place. (just shook head)

If it was this easy the Waymo Pacifica would not look the way it does.
In my opinion this just seems like an upgrade to the factory adaptive cruise control that offers better precision in the way it reacts. Neither system is designed to be a hands off system. The ultimate responsibility is in the hands of the driver.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
In my opinion this just seems like an upgrade to the factory adaptive cruise control that offers better precision in the way it reacts. Neither system is designed to be a hands off system. The ultimate responsibility is in the hands of the driver.


I agree. It’s an after market advanced driving assistance feature. I am still responsible for the vehicle. To compare this system to the Waymo Pacifica is ridiculous. That vehicle navigates much more complex driving, such as stopping at intersections and interacting with other traffic and pedestrians. At best, Openpilot can maintain its lane (within limits). I’m aware of its limitations and will drive accordingly.

I did accept some advice and have reached out to my insurer. I’m curious if this modification has any implications to my liability. I’ll update the post when I hear back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Your insurance agent will only be able to tell you about whether or not your policy covers it. Civil liability extends beyond that question.

I love technology and gadgets, too. There are great things on the horizon. To retrofit a 5,000lbs van with a famous hacker’s attempt to get in on the VC land rush into vehicle automation is going a bit out on a limb. Any accident you get in will immediately draw scrutiny from all parties involved, whether it has anything to do with the system or not. Imagine how it plays out in front of a jury—a cheap Android phone the you wired into your van yourself, with software that’s beta-quality, from an iPhone-hacker? Particularly after you make videos about it and post them, in which you make safety assessments without any real basis for your conclusions?

I’m just presenting some things that I’d consider. Everything is always great until software/hardware isn’t up to the task we ask of it. It’s easy to say you’re in control, but the reality is that our vans have electricity operated steering and drive-by-wire throttles. I’m not sure if the brakes are a direct linkage, but I kind of doubt it given the blending of regenerative braking involved. All of that integrates systems together that have been heavily tested individually and tested by Chrysler. You’re introducing a variable that Chrysler never tested, never intended the system to integrate with, and that very likely has little to no formal testing by anyone.

Do you actually know what you’re doing, or are you just a guy that bought it because it’s interesting to you?
 

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I agree. It’s an after market advanced driving assistance feature. I am still responsible for the vehicle. To compare this system to the Waymo Pacifica is ridiculous. That vehicle navigates much more complex driving, such as stopping at intersections and interacting with other traffic and pedestrians. At best, Openpilot can maintain its lane (within limits). I’m aware of its limitations and will drive accordingly.

I did accept some advice and have reached out to my insurer. I’m curious if this modification has any implications to my liability. I’ll update the post when I hear back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I remember back in the 70s my dad bought a device called “CompuCruise”

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/05/04/who-remembers-aftermarket-add-on-automotive-computers-like-the-zemco-compucruise/.

It was way ahead of its time. It was a cruise control with a bunch of fancy features that let you monitor things like fuel used, water temperature, battery voltage, etc. It could also give instantaneous or average MPG. Those were things that not even the fanciest cars did back then.

He also had a Heathkit capacitive discharge ignition system

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/heath_capacitive_discharge_ignition_cp_1060.html.

And there were many other things that he added to our ‘69 Ford Country Squire station wagon which had a big block 390 CID engine in it. We drove that thing all over the country and pulled a camper behind it much of the time. Never had a lick of a problem with any of that stuff he added on. Oh, and did I mention the huge cantilevered rear view mirror?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-460101?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI47yS4aTt4wIVgYbACh3tUAIvEAQYAyABEgJHA_D_BwE

Or the reel-to-reel tape recorder that sat between him and my mom in the front seat playing tunes to entertain us to no end...(that was before 8 tracks or cassettes became popular).

So I guess I tend to be a little more accepting of homebrew automotive add-ons. My dad was the coolest mechanical engineer I’ve ever known. I could tell you many, many more stories but don’t want to bore everyone to death.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I remember back in the 70s my dad bought a device called “CompuCruise”



https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/05/04/who-remembers-aftermarket-add-on-automotive-computers-like-the-zemco-compucruise/.



It was way ahead of its time. It was a cruise control with a bunch of fancy features that let you monitor things like fuel used, water temperature, battery voltage, etc. It could also give instantaneous or average MPG. Those were things that not even the fanciest cars did back then.



He also had a Heathkit capacitive discharge ignition system



https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/heath_capacitive_discharge_ignition_cp_1060.html.



And there were many other things that he added to our ‘69 Ford Country Squire station wagon which had a big block 390 CID engine in it. We drove that thing all over the country and pulled a camper behind it much of the time. Never had a lick of a problem with any of that stuff he added on. Oh, and did I mention the huge cantilevered rear view mirror?



https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-460101?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI47yS4aTt4wIVgYbACh3tUAIvEAQYAyABEgJHA_D_BwE



Or the reel-to-reel tape recorder that sat between him and my mom in the front seat playing tunes to entertain us to no end...(that was before 8 tracks or cassettes became popular).



So I guess I tend to be a little more accepting of homebrew automotive add-ons. My dad was the coolest mechanical engineer I’ve ever known. I could tell you many, many more stories but don’t want to bore everyone to death.


That is truly awesome! Isn’t it amazing how crafty that generation was? I can’t even imagine that rear view mirror. It looks the size of the entire windshield!

Thank you so much for sharing!


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So this upgrade will disable the "put hands on wheel" message?

When using adaptive cruise control, after I take my hands off the wheel for 10 seconds, the message will pop-up. And if I still keep hands off the wheel for another 5 seconds, the lane control turns off.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So this upgrade will disable the "put hands on wheel" message?

When using adaptive cruise control, after I take my hands off the wheel for 10 seconds, the message will pop-up. And if I still keep hands off the wheel for another 5 seconds, the lane control turns off.
It's a little more complicated than that. This is a modification to the vehicle's existing Advanced Driving Assistance System (ADAS). Specifically, this modification expands on the Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) and Lane Keep Assist (LKAS). In my opinion this works much better than the OEM LKAS, but it is not without controversy, as you can read from the posts above.

You are probably getting the "Place Hands on Wheel" message because you are going for long periods of time without applying torque to the steering wheel. I'm pretty sure that's been discussed in these threads before. If you are simply looking to eliminate that message, you could disable the LKAS, but that would defeat the purpose of it being a safety system designed to help if you go out of your lane and I would not recommend it. Personally, I would not install this system only to disable that message.
 

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I think it's awesome! Round about how much you into it for?

It's a little more complicated than that. This is a modification to the vehicle's existing Advanced Driving Assistance System (ADAS). Specifically, this modification expands on the Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) and Lane Keep Assist (LKAS). In my opinion this works much better than the OEM LKAS, but it is not without controversy, as you can read from the posts above.

You are probably getting the "Place Hands on Wheel" message because you are going for long periods of time without applying torque to the steering wheel. I'm pretty sure that's been discussed in these threads before. If you are simply looking to eliminate that message, you could disable the LKAS, but that would defeat the purpose of it being a safety system designed to help if you go out of your lane and I would not recommend it. Personally, I would not install this system only to disable that message.
 

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It's a little more complicated than that. This is a modification to the vehicle's existing Advanced Driving Assistance System (ADAS). Specifically, this modification expands on the Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) and Lane Keep Assist (LKAS). In my opinion this works much better than the OEM LKAS, but it is not without controversy, as you can read from the posts above.

You are probably getting the "Place Hands on Wheel" message because you are going for long periods of time without applying torque to the steering wheel. I'm pretty sure that's been discussed in these threads before. If you are simply looking to eliminate that message, you could disable the LKAS, but that would defeat the purpose of it being a safety system designed to help if you go out of your lane and I would not recommend it. Personally, I would not install this system only to disable that message.

So when you are using this Open Pilot, your OEM LKAS function is disabled?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So when you are using this Open Pilot, your OEM LKAS function is disabled?


That’s correct. It takes over the function of LKAS. This also means that the OEM LKAS does not work even when Openpilot is turned off. You can turn it back on by changing a switch on the unit or plugging the stock camera back in directly, but I think you need to turn the car off first. It seems to not work if you do it while the car is running.


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Knowing what OpenPilot is and what is does, I think its great that this is an option. OP on Chrysler Pacifica only controls steering, the ACC is stock and OP does not control longitudinal control (speed). Chrysler are designed with Lane Keep Assist, and OP uses this ability to work way better than stock LKAS, in other words, its more accurate at keeping the vehicle between the lanes.

As for liability concerns, liability rest with the driver with or without this device. I personally don't trust the stock system, ACC and LKAS. Both are just functional enough to use. The fact the OP is Open Source makes the technology way better than stock system, anyone can audit the code. Not so with stock systems. You know, when LKAS tries to pull the steering wheel towards an exit without input from me. Yeah, that's safe!

Anyway, cool setup. And if Comma AI ever releases a commercial device I would have no problem buying one.
 
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