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As for liability concerns, liability rest with the driver with or without this device.
That’s not how it works. Liability isn’t binary. It doesn’t necessarily rest with the driver, either. If a critical component of the vehicle fails, is the driver at fault for that? Maybe. If the owner of the van replaces an integrated system component with an untested 3rd party system and it fails, it’s likely that the owner would be on the hook. Any idea what this devices EULA does? I’d read it very carefully before use.

That’s why there isn’t any kind of land rush into developing retrofit kits for existing vehicles. There’s too much risk involved, insurance companies are likely to void policies, and it only makes sense if... The company has no assets to risk. Kinda like comma.ai. It Hots’s play to get bought out by a player who is late to the game. He knows he’s relatively judgement-proof.

smit, did you ever ask your insurance agent about this? I’m very curious to know what they may have said.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
smit, did you ever ask your insurance agent about this? I’m very curious to know what they may have said.

Nothing official yet. They sent a generic response that they are looking into and that they’ll let me know.



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Nothing official yet. They sent a generic response that they are looking into and that they’ll let me know.
It’s been a long time since I’ve read my policy. When I’ve got some time, I’m going to check it out. Not sure if vehicle modifications are in the exclusions or not.

There isn’t much existing law around any of this. The self-drive legal seminars I’ve been to are pretty much exclusively around OEM systems. As of a year or so ago, all that could be reliably said boils down to: “This is going to be interesting.” Much depends on what Congress eventually decides to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
It’s been a long time since I’ve read my policy. When I’ve got some time, I’m going to check it out. Not sure if vehicle modifications are in the exclusions or not.



There isn’t much existing law around any of this. The self-drive legal seminars I’ve been to are pretty much exclusively around OEM systems. As of a year or so ago, all that could be reliably said boils down to: “This is going to be interesting.” Much depends on what Congress eventually decides to do.


Yeah, I looked through my policy and couldn’t find anything that sounds like it applies to this situation. That doesn’t mean it’s not in there. It could also be how it’s interpreted. I’m definitely curious how they will respond. I’ll definitely let you know either way.


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If the driver uses stock acc and it smashes into stopped traffic (it has) it is still the drivers fault. With OP, if the car crashes into another car, it is the drivers fault. I understand what you're saying, the risk is there, but no more than using stock systems. Both require attentive drivers, because these technologies are driver assist, both OP and stock. I am curious to see the insurances companies response, to this technology, however. As for Hotz, I've have supported his efforts over the years, even donated money when Sony sued him. I've researched OP enough to know that it's better than stock systems, but is still requires the full attention of the driver. As for him selling, what does he have to sell? OP is open source, the code is out there and being forked to different vehicles by an active community. I've done numerous after market mods to my cars before, after market wheels, computer reflashing to make them faster. I've seen transmissions swapped, rearend gear sets changed, bright bright head lights, and the list goes on. All after market parts, not oem equipment. And in a accident caused by a failure of one of those parts, the driver would still be at fault.
 

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Hi everyone,

I thought that I would share my experience with installing Open Pilot in my 2017 Pacifica Hybrid. I've been intrigued by self-driving technology and always hoped the standard lane keep assist (LKAS) would have been better in my Pacifica. I've been doing some research on the subject, and decided to give Open Pilot a chance.

Here is a video of my setup:

Everything was purchased from: Comma.ai

I purchased:
  • EON Dev Kit
  • FCA Giraffe
  • Panda
So far it's working very well. I've noticed it performs much better on the highway than surface roads. It's much better than the standard LKAS. It also looks like they provide regular updates. It was not hard to do at all and anyone with some basic technical experience will be able to do it without issue. If anyone has any questions about my setup or how it performs, I would be happy to assist.
Did you buy the Grey or White Panda? Do you know what is the difference?

Also, thanks for sharing this.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Did you buy the Grey or White Panda? Do you know what is the difference?

Also, thanks for sharing this.


I bought the white panda. Both the white and grey link the car to the EON. The grey also comes with a GPS antenna to more accurately identify its position.


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Discussion Starter #29
I also noticed that on the non hybrid Pacificas they only list 2017 and 2018. Not 2019. Makes me wonder why?


I saw your posts over on Discord. Sounds like it should work. Good luck! I’d love to hear your experience with it if you decide to buy.


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I have been following Open Pilot for a while, I'm happy to see someone use it with a Pacifica.


I for one think the anger in the first few reply's is unfounded and due to ignorance and fear.



Insurance doesn't really care about vehicle mods, the only thing that pertains to that topic is coverage of aftermarket equipment in a loss or claim.


Also, its going to be inherently safer than the stock system, Open Pilot is heavily developed and has continuing updates and improvements from highly skilled developers. That still does not take away from the number one rule with all autonomous cars, "Never take your focus off of the road and always be ready to take control of the vehicle and override the system".
 

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I kinda scratch my head at how people without any apparent credibility make defininitve statements about liability, insurance, and safety. There’s a herd mentality of self-reinforcing assumptions at play there.

There’s certainly no anger in any of my replies, just befuddlement. I can’t wrap my head around the idea of risking my family’s financial future and personal freedom in such a cavalier way. I guess my background gives me different perspective, but the eagerness to assume the risk seems baffling to me.
 

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"Never take your focus off of the road and always be ready to take control of the vehicle and override the system".
There in lies the problem, drivers will be over confident in the capabilities of the system, and will be doing everything BUT paying attention to their #1 responsibility, which is driving the vehicle.


<
 

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Insurance doesn't really care about vehicle mods, the only thing that pertains to that topic is coverage of aftermarket equipment in a loss or claim.
So if I mod my vehicle by replacing the steering wheel with a set of vicegrips, will the insurance care? It'll function and in some aspects be superior to a steering wheel.
 

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Insurance doesn't really care about vehicle mods, the only thing that pertains to that topic is coverage of aftermarket equipment in a loss or claim.
So if I mod my vehicle by replacing the steering wheel with a set of vicegrips, will the insurance care? It'll function and in some aspects be superior to a steering wheel.

If you crash, it would still be your fault! So it doesn't matter. OP does not remove built in safety mechanism. It is a after market driving assist development unit. The only thing the insurance companies would care about is if the accident was intentional. For example, did you willfully remove your vicegrip steering wheel on purpose. However, I'll wait and see what his insurance agent has to say officially. There is no herd mentality at play here, just people that know what OP is and how it works.
 

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If you crash, it would still be your fault! So it doesn't matter. OP does not remove built in safety mechanism. It is a after market driving assist development unit. The only thing the insurance companies would care about is if the accident was intentional.
To make such definitive statements, I’m guessing you’re employed in the insurance industry. Is that the case? Or maybe you’re an attorney who handles a fair number of cases involving auto insurance?
 

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"Never take your focus off of the road and always be ready to take control of the vehicle and override the system".
There in lies the problem, drivers will be over confident in the capabilities of the system, and will be doing everything BUT paying attention to their #1 responsibility, which is driving the vehicle.


<
That's a lot of assumption on your part. Do you speed, turn without using turn indicators, pass people that are going too slow, i. e? People who are using OP know exactly what it is, they know it's limitations, and they know what it is not. Read up on it, it is a driver assist, the same as cruise control and LKAS, it just better utilizes the stock sensors. Where I drive, I always see people speeding, texting, driving with no lights on at night, speeding in raining, and the list goes on. They are the ones not paying attention. I would wager most complaints about OP are because of FUD and ignorance. The question about liability is a legit question, however, I believe it's overblown. Hopefully he hears from his agent soon as I would like to hear their statement on OP.
 

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If you crash, it would still be your fault! So it doesn't matter. OP does not remove built in safety mechanism. It is a after market driving assist development unit. The only thing the insurance companies would care about is if the accident was intentional.
To make such definitive statements, I’m guessing you’re employed in the insurance industry. Is that the case? Or maybe you’re an attorney who handles a fair number of cases involving auto insurance?
No to both, which is why I would like to hear the what his insurance has to say.
 

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No to both, which is why I would like to hear the what his insurance has to say.
Then why are you making claims that you don't have the actual knowledge to support?
And what claims am I making? That insurance is for accidents? That they only care about true accidents or willfully causing an accident to collect insurance money. Um, because that's how insurance works. You can be the dumbest, ignorant person around, crash your car, be totally your fault and insurance will pay out. As long as you have payed your premiums, don't lie about what happened, and it's covered by your policy, your good to go.
 

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And what claims am I making? That insurance is for accidents? That they only care about true accidents or willfully causing an accident to collect insurance money. Um, because that's how insurance works. You can be the dumbest, ignorant person around, crash your car, be totally your fault and insurance will pay out. As long as you have payed your premiums, don't lie about what happened, and it's covered by your policy, your good to go.
You've made some rather uninformed claims about liability and insurance.

I'm not particularly interested in rolling around in the mud with you on this. It's enough for me to know that you've got zip for actual credibility on the claims you make.
 
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