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I have the same issue in two places on my 2017 bright white. Seems Chrysler has this problem on aluminum hoods both on the Pacifica and other models. Hopefully my dealer will address the issue when I go in armed with all these previous cases. They obviously have a problem here.
 

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I have the same issue in two places on my 2017 bright white. Seems Chrysler has this problem on aluminum hoods both on the Pacifica and other models. Hopefully my dealer will address the issue when I go in armed with all these previous cases. They obviously have a problem here.
Well documented problem. They should replace the hood. Annoying, but they should make it right. :smile2:
 

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I noticed just the other day I’m having the paint bubble/peeling issue on the edge of my front bumper cover (on the left side where it meets with the fender). I wonder what the remedy for this would be. Will they replace the bumper cover? I’d prefer not to have the adjacent fender sprayed with new paint if they decide to send it to the body shop.
 

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Just heard back from the dealer. Chrysler rejected the claim but the service manager is still fighting for me. If there is a Chrysler rep on here, can you explain why Chrysler is refusing to resolve this defect? My loyalty to Chrysler is sinking.
 

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Just heard back from the dealer. Chrysler rejected the claim but the service manager is still fighting for me. If there is a Chrysler rep on here, can you explain why Chrysler is refusing to resolve this defect? My loyalty to Chrysler is sinking.
Perhaps a class action lawsuit would be in order! Plenty of owners having the same problem.
 

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I have a friend who owns a Ford Explorer, and is having the same issue with rust blisters on the leading edge of the hood.
I wonder how many other makes and models are having this problem, what causes it and what are the manufacturers doing about it.
Anyone?
 

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Not excusing the paint problems, but it must be difficult to prep, prime & paint all the different exterior body materials: plastics, steel, aluminum (did I leave any out?) and have them all look the same...AND to keep looking the same over time.
 

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This is a general aluminum/paint adhesion conversation from 1997. Some cars seem OK. I wonder if all mfrs. do this. Is aluminum new to FCA?
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Q. We are evaluating the possibility of installing a new powder paint line for aluminum extrusions and are having some doubts about the proper pretreatment for paint. Can anyone help?
Guillermo L [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Mexico City, Mexico

(1997)
A. Proper pretreatment for aluminum castings and extrusions takes place in at least a 5 stage pretreatment system. The system would consist of the following stages:

  • stage 1: Alkaline cleaner (aluminum-safe, or mild etch)
  • Stage 2: Fresh Water rinse
  • Stage 3: Iron Phosphate solution containing fluoride
  • Stage 4: Fresh Water Rinse (Recirc DI Optional)
  • Stage 5: Fresh Water Rinse (Virgin DI optional)
Choice of cleaner depends on alloy and soils to be removed. The fluoride is the key. It etches the aluminum surface to provide for good paint adhesion. Reduce the stages and you reduce the chances for success.


Craig Burkart
- Naperville, Illinois


(1997)
A. Guillermo, the suggestion Craig Burkart gave you is a very good one. Remember that aluminum does not accept a conversion coating. You must clean the metal and etch it for best adhesion. The D.I. water will help you to rinse any residual contamination from the substrate prior to the next step I.E. E-coat/wet spray/powdercoat, etc. By using a D.I. virginal rinse, the substrate is left in a slightly acidic state the powder just loves to stick to. You could also use reverse osmosis water if you like. The other area of interest to you may be in making sure the grade a casting/extrusion is compatible with the cleaning chemicals to prevent increase cleaning demands or multi chemicals to alleviate problems such as smutting. Bob
 

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This is a general aluminum/paint adhesion conversation from 1997. Some cars seem OK. I wonder if all mfrs. do this. Is aluminum new to FCA?
--------------------------------------------------------
Q. We are evaluating the possibility of installing a new powder paint line for aluminum extrusions and are having some doubts about the proper pretreatment for paint. Can anyone help?
Guillermo L [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Mexico City, Mexico

(1997)
A. Proper pretreatment for aluminum castings and extrusions takes place in at least a 5 stage pretreatment system. The system would consist of the following stages:

  • stage 1: Alkaline cleaner (aluminum-safe, or mild etch)
  • Stage 2: Fresh Water rinse
  • Stage 3: Iron Phosphate solution containing fluoride
  • Stage 4: Fresh Water Rinse (Recirc DI Optional)
  • Stage 5: Fresh Water Rinse (Virgin DI optional)
Choice of cleaner depends on alloy and soils to be removed. The fluoride is the key. It etches the aluminum surface to provide for good paint adhesion. Reduce the stages and you reduce the chances for success.


Craig Burkart
- Naperville, Illinois


(1997)
A. Guillermo, the suggestion Craig Burkart gave you is a very good one. Remember that aluminum does not accept a conversion coating. You must clean the metal and etch it for best adhesion. The D.I. water will help you to rinse any residual contamination from the substrate prior to the next step I.E. E-coat/wet spray/powdercoat, etc. By using a D.I. virginal rinse, the substrate is left in a slightly acidic state the powder just loves to stick to. You could also use reverse osmosis water if you like. The other area of interest to you may be in making sure the grade a casting/extrusion is compatible with the cleaning chemicals to prevent increase cleaning demands or multi chemicals to alleviate problems such as smutting. Bob
This is what I was mentioning with the, 'prep, prime, paint', process with the different materials: it is complex. "smutting"?
What is the source for this info @bradly1101 ?
 

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I'm having trouble defining smutting in aluminum, but it seems similar to oxidation.

https://www.finishing.com/224/96.shtml

"A. It is not "necessary", it is a readily available cheap desmut chemical. Proprietary desmut/deoxidize chemicals are available, but at a higher cost. Most of them work better because they do two functions. Probably the most effective deoxidize desmut is a mixture of sulfuric/nitric/ammonium bifluoride. Effective, but slightly nasty."
 

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I'm having trouble defining smutting in aluminum, but it seems similar to oxidation.

https://www.finishing.com/224/96.shtml

"A. It is not "necessary", it is a readily available cheap desmut chemical. Proprietary desmut/deoxidize chemicals are available, but at a higher cost. Most of them work better because they do two functions. Probably the most effective deoxidize desmut is a mixture of sulfuric/nitric/ammonium bifluoride. Effective, but slightly nasty."
Sounds like they are talking about anodizing the aluminum in that article. It would be interesting to know the painting processes that Chrysler uses on their vehicles as opposed to other manufacturers...
 

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I did a search, and it appears that Fiat has partnered with Henkel to do this. The Chrysler/Henkel PDF was corrupt, and the web page wasn't there.

This is a page regarding the Fiat/Alfa Giulia, I assume it's the same process. They speak of a combination steel/aluminum pre-treatment process, and I don't see aluminum surface etching as a separate thing. I have no knowledge other than this:

"Henkel announced it will partner with Fiat Chrysler to save weight and improve process and material performance on Alfa Romeo’s Giulia. Henkel and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) are set to discuss their close cooperation in the development of groundbreaking new treatment processes applied to the latest version of the Alfa Romeo Giulia. Both companies plan to share the podium at Surcar 2017, an international meeting on automotive body finishing taking place in June in Cannes, France.

The new Giulia has a body that is 90 kg lighter than a comparable all-steel body. This was reportedly achieved by the use of light metals in combination with new process materials and application technologies. To reduce weight and improve performance, FCA is using aluminum to account for 45% of car body weight. It has adopted a groundbreaking acoustic package to enhance passenger comfort while saving more weight.

The Bonderite two-step metal pretreatment process was developed by Henkel for multi-metal bodies with very high aluminum contents (up to 80%), suggesting to provide superior corrosion performance while reducing investment- and processing costs. The dip-coating process uses zinc phosphate in the first step to treat the steel, followed by an aluminum treatment in the post rinse.

“Aluminum can be eaten up by the acids normally used to phosphate steel, so there is a need to find a balance in the treatment process,” said Manfred Holzmueller, sales director transplant OEM business at Henkel. “Corrosion performance is equal to tricationic Zn-Phosphate, but the bonderite process generates 30-50% less sludge, consumes fewer chemicals, and creates less surface roughness that demands rework. Lower operating temperature also saves energy.”"

https://www.adhesivesmag.com/articles/95525-henkel-to-partner-with-fiat-chrysler-to-improve-alfa-romeo-performance
 

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I did a search, and it appears that Fiat has partnered with Henkel to do this. The Chrysler/Henkel PDF was corrupt, and the web page wasn't there.

This is a page regarding the Fiat/Alfa Giulia, I assume it's the same process. They speak of a combination steel/aluminum pre-treatment process, and I don't see aluminum surface etching as a separate thing. I have no knowledge other than this:

"Henkel announced it will partner with Fiat Chrysler to save weight and improve process and material performance on Alfa Romeo’s Giulia. Henkel and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) are set to discuss their close cooperation in the development of groundbreaking new treatment processes applied to the latest version of the Alfa Romeo Giulia. Both companies plan to share the podium at Surcar 2017, an international meeting on automotive body finishing taking place in June in Cannes, France.

The new Giulia has a body that is 90 kg lighter than a comparable all-steel body. This was reportedly achieved by the use of light metals in combination with new process materials and application technologies. To reduce weight and improve performance, FCA is using aluminum to account for 45% of car body weight. It has adopted a groundbreaking acoustic package to enhance passenger comfort while saving more weight.

The Bonderite two-step metal pretreatment process was developed by Henkel for multi-metal bodies with very high aluminum contents (up to 80%), suggesting to provide superior corrosion performance while reducing investment- and processing costs. The dip-coating process uses zinc phosphate in the first step to treat the steel, followed by an aluminum treatment in the post rinse.

“Aluminum can be eaten up by the acids normally used to phosphate steel, so there is a need to find a balance in the treatment process,” said Manfred Holzmueller, sales director transplant OEM business at Henkel. “Corrosion performance is equal to tricationic Zn-Phosphate, but the bonderite process generates 30-50% less sludge, consumes fewer chemicals, and creates less surface roughness that demands rework. Lower operating temperature also saves energy.”"

https://www.adhesivesmag.com/articles/95525-henkel-to-partner-with-fiat-chrysler-to-improve-alfa-romeo-performance
Interesting article @bradly1101. I didn't look at the link you included since you said it was corrupt.
"Groundbreaking new treatment", but does it hold up over the passage of time and different atmospheric conditions? Could this be why so many hoods on FCA vehicles are having paint bubbling problems???
 

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Just heard back from the dealer. Chrysler rejected the claim but the service manager is still fighting for me. If there is a Chrysler rep on here, can you explain why Chrysler is refusing to resolve this defect? My loyalty to Chrysler is sinking.
Hello imblaze94,

Has a case been started for this situation? Please send us your VIN as we'd be glad to look further into this.

Jasmine
Chrysler Social Care Specialist
 

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Interesting article @bradly1101 . I didn't look at the link you included since you said it was corrupt.
"Groundbreaking new treatment", but does it hold up over the passage of time and different atmospheric conditions? Could this be why so many hoods on FCA vehicles are having paint bubbling problems???
If it's just the hood that's aluminum I assumed it would get its own prep., but I guess it makes sense that the whole car is prepped at one time in a two-step (should be more for alum.?) process. I'm no paint expert or metallurgist, and A8's are/(were?) all aluminum. Aside from lots of door dings the paint seemed fine.

Pre-2015 Ford wasn't immune:

"...But beware: Ford’s use of aluminum in pre-2015 vehicles has had glitches.

A case in point: A Consumer Reports reader from St. Paul, Minn., who had “very carefully” maintained her 2011 Ford Expedition EL found that the paint on the aluminum tailgate began bubbling. Her dealer said the paint was oxidizing, a result of contamination during the painting process. (Aluminum is more prone to contamination than steel.)

Her Expedition had just exceeded its 36,000-mile warranty when the problem surfaced. After months of frustration, she was able to get Ford to replace the tailgate, free. It took a lot of effort and phone calls, but the lesson is that it makes sense to complain—and take your complaint up the ladder until you get satisfaction."

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/02/pros-and-cons-of-aluminum-cars-and-trucks/index.htm


 

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Hello imblaze94,

Has a case been started for this situation? Please send us your VIN as we'd be glad to look further into this.

Jasmine
Chrysler Social Care Specialist
Hi Jasmine, Thank you so much for your offer to look further into this but it is not needed. My dealership fought on my behalf and got the repair approved. They are not replacing the hood, but rather a body shop is going to strip the hood, treat it, prime it then paint it. I hope the repair comes out like new.
 
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