[cerrmj]

So, I guess I needed to read a bit more here to understand the weirdness of what Chrysler has done option-wise with this Pacifica PHEV van. I kind of assumed that the Platinum PHEV would be fully loaded with everything in the lesser models + the PHEV drive train. I put a deposit down last week, but now I see that there are some things missing that are important enough that I'm seriously thinking about cancelling (they'll let you do that I'm assuming).

1. No memory seats/mirrors. My wife is really short and I'm not. We use the memory seats/mirrors in our Sienna every day. This really sucks.

2. No Homelink garage opener? Really? I guess we can go back to the old clip on and survive but come on!

3. Halogen headlights? My 2006 Sienna has HID and they are great. Stupid on a $46k vehicle in 2017 not to have LED or even HID.

4. No auto dimming mirrors? My 2001 Chevy pickup truck has that - what the heck?

Ok, I know that the PHEV does come with a lot of technology (360 camera, lane assist, adaptive cruise, rain sensitive wipers, automatic high beam control, deluxe parking assist) you can't get in any of the other models plus the gas savings of the PHEV.

But Crap! I want all of that cool stuff though that comes with the PHEV and I'd gladly trade the rear seat theater package for the above 4 missing items if Chrysler would let me.

Is there anything else I'm not seeing in comparing the models that I'm really gonna miss and should be on a $46k car in the year 2017?

Maybe I can live with the 4 missing things that I've found so far - but I'm gonna cuss Chrysler every time I look for that **** seat memory button if I continue down the path to get the PHEV.

 

[ljnelson109]

You may want to spend some time reading in other threads. There is a thread specific to this discussion you can view here. I am really interested in getting a Pacifica Hybrid, but also struggle with your frustration. I am not helping your cause. Unfortunately, none of the items you listed as "technology you can't get in any other models" is actually unique to the hybrid. All of that can be had in the gas model and a lot of that can be had in other manufacturers' vans. The list of missing items also includes power fold 3rd row seats, vacuum, stow and go, super console, the list goes on.

The argument is the price point. While I don't necessarily agree with the features that they chose to include vs. exclude, they were definitely trying to hit a price point that would make the hybrid decision more palatable. Good luck with your decision.

 

[hawkfan]

I'm confused by your frustrations here. If the PHEV model doesn't have the features you want then perhaps it's not the vehicle for you. Before putting a deposit down and committing to a $46k vehicle, you should've done the legwork and made sure that it has the features you're looking for in a vehicle and that it will meet your needs. Complaining about it after the fact and (from the tone of your message) getting angry about it does nothing and makes you look like an uninformed shopper. I get the desire of some to have a PHEV van and that, for now, the Pacifica is the only game in town. But you shouldn't blame Chrysler for what they're offering because it doesn't seem to tick all of the boxes on your wish list. Based on how successful this vehicle is the other brands are sure to follow with their own versions in the future and perhaps those will better meet your wants and needs.

 

[BrettP]

If you can hang on, I'll bet the next model year will have a new hybrid trim level with many of the smaller missing features back in plus CarPlay, adjustable rear door, etc.. We are planning to trade our Pacifasaurus in at end of the 36000 warranty and sure hope they have a more "Limited-like" trim available by then.

 

[Tiz]

If you can hang on, I'll bet the next model year will have a new hybrid trim level with many of the smaller missing features back in plus CarPlay, adjustable rear door, etc.. We are planning to trade our Pacifasaurus in at end of the 36000 warranty and sure hope they have a more "Limited-like" trim available by then.

Good advice. Later models will probably be a bit more customizable with more extra cost options. The Platinum launch model gives a lot of bang for the buck. Chrysler was defiantly aiming for a very palatable price point for the launch. When you can get that much tech and luxury in a vehicle for around $36,000. after rebates and credits, it hard to beat. I can adapt to the missing bells & whistles, some people can't. You can buy a Limited and load it up with the stuff you like at about $50,000. Your choice.

 

[Tiz]

So, I guess I needed to read a bit more here to understand the weirdness of what Chrysler has done option-wise with this Pacifica PHEV van. I kind of assumed that the Platinum PHEV would be fully loaded with everything in the lesser models + the PHEV drive train. I put a deposit down last week, but now I see that there are some things missing that are important enough that I'm seriously thinking about cancelling (they'll let you do that I'm assuming).

1. No memory seats/mirrors. My wife is really short and I'm not. We use the memory seats/mirrors in our Sienna every day. This really sucks.

2. No Homelink garage opener? Really? I guess we can go back to the old clip on and survive but come on!

3. Halogen headlights? My 2006 Sienna has HID and they are great. Stupid on a $46k vehicle in 2017 not to have LED or even HID.

4. No auto dimming mirrors? My 2001 Chevy pickup truck has that - what the heck?

Ok, I know that the PHEV does come with a lot of technology (360 camera, lane assist, adaptive cruise, rain sensitive wipers, automatic high beam control, deluxe parking assist) you can't get in any of the other models plus the gas savings of the PHEV.

But Crap! I want all of that cool stuff though that comes with the PHEV and I'd gladly trade the rear seat theater package for the above 4 missing items if Chrysler would let me.

Is there anything else I'm not seeing in comparing the models that I'm really gonna miss and should be on a $46k car in the year 2017?

Maybe I can live with the 4 missing things that I've found so far - but I'm gonna cuss Chrysler every time I look for that **** seat memory button if I continue down the path to get the PHEV.

Later models will probably be a bit more customizable with more extra cost options. The Platinum launch model gives a lot of bang for the buck. Chrysler was defiantly aiming for a very palatable price point for the launch. When you can get that much tech and luxury in a vehicle for around $36,000. after rebates and credits, it's hard to beat. I can adapt to the missing bells & whistles, some people can't. You can buy a Limited and load it up with the stuff you like at about $50,000. Your choice.

 

[Starstreak]

I'm with you. But we need a new van now more than later. My wife is already so ticked about the seat color. Who puts a white-ish seat in a minivan?

 

[ArkansasVolt]

waiting for 2018+

1. No memory seats/mirrors. My wife is really short and I'm not. We use the memory seats/mirrors in our Sienna every day. This really sucks.

2. No Homelink garage opener? Really? I guess we can go back to the old clip on and survive but come on!

3. Halogen headlights? My 2006 Sienna has HID and they are great. Stupid on a $46k vehicle in 2017 not to have LED or even HID.

4. No auto dimming mirrors? My 2001 Chevy pickup truck has that - what the heck?

Maybe I can live with the 4 missing things that I've found so far - but I'm gonna cuss Chrysler every time I look for that **** seat memory button if I continue down the path to get the PHEV.

1 is precisely why I am waiting on the 2018 model. I can do without most missing features or aftermarket some of them, but I will not do without memory seats.

 

[DigitalBlacksmith]

1 is precisely why I am waiting on the 2018 model. I can do without most missing features or aftermarket some of them, but I will not do without memory seats.

Ahhh first world problems. I for one hate electric seats of any kind.

Cancelled my order a week or two back and I feel pretty good about it. Too much to spend on a beta product with this many delays. I will just drive my paid off and recently repaired van for a year or two and actually negotiate a price for a vehicle that fits my desires.

 

[kvmiller]

I think that it's important that you evaluate the reasons why you were purchasing a PHEV vs. a conventional gasoline van. You are going to get a wide variety of answers to your concerns, varying between sympathy and outright scorn. Those answers will be colored by the reasons those replying chose this vehicle.

My reasons: I wanted a larger-capacity vehicle (6-7 passengers, more cargo space). But I'm unwilling to purchase a gas guzzler. I am conscious of the environment, global warming exists and is a significant threat, and I wanted to lower my carbon imprint. I have solar panels on my home, which will provide at least some of the energy to charge my vehicle. The EV range on this one is perfect for me, allowing me to basically only use gasoline on longer trips. But I wanted the range-extended hybrid vs. the pure EV for the reason that I'd like to be able to take this car on longer trips.

The van could have no features and I would still buy it. I wish it was AWD (I live in Massachusetts). But there are no dealbreakers on this one. And a secondary but still important concern for me is that I want to buy in early, to help prove to car manufacturers that there is a market for these larger hybrids and plug-in hybrids, since up until now most have been tiny tiny little things that just won't work for me.

If you don't feel this way, if the ability to plug this vehicle in and get 33 or so miles of electric range isn't compelling enough, then I'm a little unsure about why you would choose this one in the first place.

Regarding price: this isn't a $46,000 minivan. It is a $38,500 minivan after tax credits ($36,000 in MA due to local incentives). It should be compared to other $38,500 vehicles, not other $46,000 vehicles. In addition, this vehicle will save me a net savings of $120 per month compared to what I'm spending now in gasoline. Based upon the interest rate on my new vehicle loan, this savings means that the net that I'm spending on this vehicle is $29,000 (subtracting gasoline savings from the car purchase price, over 5 years. If I keep it longer, the effective price of the vehicle is even lower).

Personally, I have never had memory seats. It takes exactly 10 seconds for me to adjust my seat and mirrors when my husband and I switch drivers. Saving 10 seconds in my day, even if it was two or three times per day, would never be a compelling reason for me personally to skip purchasing an otherwise excellent vehicle that will allow me to do my part in lowering vehicle emissions. That is my personal opinion and my personal values. You need to decide where your values are - it's your personal decision.

 

[Tiz]

Ahhh first world problems. I for one hate electric seats of any kind.

Cancelled my order a week or two back and I feel pretty good about it. Too much to spend on a beta product with this many delays. I will just drive my paid off and recently repaired van for a year or two and actually negotiate a price for a vehicle that fits my desires.

Digital,
Did you really cancel?

 

[Tiz]

I'm with you. But we need a new van now more than later. My wife is already so ticked about the seat color. Who puts a white-ish seat in a minivan?

I kinda like the white-ish seats, but then again my kids are all grown. I suppose when the grandkids get something on the seats it will be easy to spot.:smile2:

 

[werace147]

Not having memory seats is the worst part for me too. Such a simple thing for them to include too. The Mercedes we sold had memory seats. The Chrysler 200 rental we have while we wait doesn't and yes its a pain. Technically I have to make around 5 adjustments to the seat and mirror with the very slow moving motors for it to be were I like it after my wife drives. After 5 weeks of occasionally driving it I've made a compromise to my comfort and do one big drop on the seat while I stand and wait before I get in lol. After driving a while I adjust the mirror sometimes. Not ideal but its not just 10 seconds to get it all spot on and my wife will have to go through it all again too the next morning if I screw it all up. If its not memory it would be better as a manual adjustment because that's literally instant.

 

[DigitalBlacksmith]

Digital,
Did you really cancel?

Indeed I did. The van will still get shipped to my dealer so I don't feel too bad about it. I had to repair my current van while I was waiting for the hybrid and started feeling confident in it again. So I thought to myself that with all the delays and the frustrations, why not wait until the end of the year or next year when I will have some negotiating power on price and the vans will have some testing done.
I still plan on getting one eventually, but I will just enjoy watching my savings account grow until my current van dies.


In the meantime, I can reasonably say that in the next week or two that the dealer here in lincoln will have a hybrid available

 

[cerrmj]

I'm confused by your frustrations here. If the PHEV model doesn't have the features you want then perhaps it's not the vehicle for you. Before putting a deposit down and committing to a $46k vehicle, you should've done the legwork and made sure that it has the features you're looking for in a vehicle and that it will meet your needs. Complaining about it after the fact and (from the tone of your message) getting angry about it does nothing and makes you look like an uninformed shopper. I get the desire of some to have a PHEV van and that, for now, the Pacifica is the only game in town. But you shouldn't blame Chrysler for what they're offering because it doesn't seem to tick all of the boxes on your wish list. Based on how successful this vehicle is the other brands are sure to follow with their own versions in the future and perhaps those will better meet your wants and needs.

Hawkfan - I agree that I didn't do enough research and was 'uninformed' and I assumed too much. Although it was difficult to find this information. The big brochure I got didn't have the "Platinum" vehicle listed (had 'touring' and 'limited' hybrid). The Hybrid only brochure didn't have a list of features. If I hadn't been trolling on the boards and read some posts about options not available in the PHEV I wouldn't have figured it out until I picked up the van and got home. I did finally find the 'standard feature' list on the website and only after carefully comparing the Hybrid's list to a Gas model did I realize what all was missing.

I still don't understand why they decided to leave out some very useful 'convenience' items in their top of the line vehicle. I was kind of upset last night with I figured this out - hence the tone. I've settled down some now and I think I'll be able to live without some of these things. I did inform my dealer about this (they didn't know either) and asked if worst case I wanted to get a gas model could I cancel and reorder. He is going to get back to me about that.

 

[dlieu]

Regarding price: this isn't a $46,000 minivan. It is a $38,500 minivan after tax credits ($36,000 in MA due to local incentives). It should be compared to other $38,500 vehicles, not other $46,000 vehicles.

Can't help but sympathize with the entire original post.

There's one problem with this specific statement though. People keep making this argument, however I am doubtful this is can be alluded to as much. If we have to compare Chrysler vehicle to a Chrysler vehicle, quick scan of the truecar.com pricing would reveal that the dotted line price of a comparable $38.5k MSRP Chrysler vehicle is actually 7-8k less than that, and with little shopping and coupons can get even lower, whereas the dotted line price of the Pac-Hy at the moment is still pretty much barely 1k below its MSRP. So, most if not all of the tax credit advantage is immediately foregone by this simple reality.

In CA due to local state ($1.5k) and PGE ($500) rebates (assuming one qualifies by income of course) one may end up beating non-Hy deal on the financial side by 1k or so before taxes, but once we factor in the difference in taxes (~1k) and one time EVSE setup costs if one doesn't have one yet (0.8...1k), I think OTD Hy cost will decisively loose any advantage it ever might have had due to the local rebates.

On the recurring costs, assuming maintenance is about the same, if i had to guess, quite a bit of gas savings will be eaten away by the difference in insurance rates. Significantly higher book value means higher rates, higher tax, and perhaps even higher ongoing registration fees.

But i wholeheartedly agree, money is far from what is being really won. Vote environment with your wallet

 

[SherylBear]

Chrysler is showing black seats as an option on Chrysler.com and someone mentioned earlier they are ordering the mocha/brown seats this weekend. I want the brown ones with the molten silver.

 

[kvmiller]

If we have to compare Chrysler vehicle to a Chrysler vehicle, quick scan of the truecar.com pricing would reveal that the dotted line price of a comparable $38.5k MSRP Chrysler vehicle is actually 7-8k less than that, and with little shopping and coupons can get even lower

I have never negotiated a vehicle listed at $38.5k MSRP for 7-8k less than that. Kudos to you if you have, and let me in on your secrets. We certainly can agree that with this vehicle there is very little negotiation power. But I'm not comparing it to any other vehicles. I'm simply saying that for me, this car's actual cost is approximately $29,000. I'm happy to forego power seats at this price, whether or not another car could be purchased at the same price with power seats. Again, that's not why I'm buying it.

 

[PacificaJohn]

Trust that instinct. When I saw how many items were not available on the Hybrid I moved on to the Limited. IF a Pacifica ever becomes fully electric I might consider it but for 30 miles of range it was just not worth it to give up so much. I need the pampering and it sounds like you do too!
I support you!
John

 

[dlieu]

I have never negotiated a vehicle listed at $38.5k MSRP for 7-8k less than that.

Not if one is negotiating Chrysler, it seems.

Look, just out of sheer curiousy, i've run the numbers per TrueCar right now right here where i am, Here they are:

Take the Pac limited + all bells and whistles including u-connect theater in my zip code. The highest MSRP that TrueCar configurator would give me. I understand this actually would be more options than Pac Hy by some margin.

MSRP: $45,985
TrueCar price: $40,012. That's with the site certificate, no negotiation required, certified dealers would offer this or less. I understand this factors in Chrysler incentives, but not Sam's Club 1k TDM.

So with Sam's club coupon we get to $39,012.

I bet if i contact 5 bay area dealer internet managers directly by email right now, I will get at least some of them to match TrueCar price - $300 easily without even having them bidding against each other, since they won't have to pay TrueCar's lead fee (and in practice i always did). That gets it to about $38,700.

That's over than 5k under invoice and over 7k under MSRP.

If we look at TrueCar's historic price distribution (which usually higher than current if supply starts develop in past months) then we see that the highest bar is for people who reportedly paid between $38,685 and $39,056. Exactly the bracket that would include this price. So, $38,700 with little to no negotiation, or $39,000 if one doesn't want to negotiate anything at all and shop with just the dealer TrueCar points to.

So, Pac Ltd with tax = 38,700 + 9% tax =

$42,183. [Pac Ltd]

That's for a more loaded car one with a little luck can get tonight, or at least fairly soon, with 0% financing offered on top of it. In practice if i am willing to expand the search to Tracy, Gilroy and Sacramento, and get the dealers bid against each other, I probably can hope for yet a better deal.

Pac Hy Platinum, with roof, U-connect, and a significantly more thorough negotiation perhaps is around 46,600 + 9% tax -7.5k fed incentive = $43,294. Additional onetime EVSE investment, conservatively, 1k and we are looking at

$44,300. [Pac Hy]

In reality we probably will have to put a few hundred more on the table due to a conservative EVSE cost estimate and good deal assmptions. That's for a car with fewer options nobody has yet even got in US yet, with exception of 12 copies delivered in Dec-Jan (according to insideevs).

In CA with any luck some qualified individuals additionally can hope to shave off additional 2k in local rebates, in which case we arrive at ~$42,300 + title for Pac Hy.

If we want to be absolutely fair, we have to apply some adjustment based on lack of some options in PacHy and availability of 0% financing on Ltd.

So it looks best case, PacHy is about the same if one already has EVSE, or more if one needs yet to install one.

Despite all this I personally would probably buy PacHy even if there were no tax incentives, assuming no quality/availability issues.

Sorry for the length.