[PlatinumHybrid]

Now that a number of members are in line for a Pacifica Hybrid, is anyone considering adding solar panels to their homes to offset the charging costs of their new PHEV? There are still some pretty attractive tax incentives to install new panels, and that could help save long-term charging costs. I'm starting to get interested in researching these and seeing if they make sense.

Any thoughts about buying vs leasing panels, or good and bad points of this technology (if you already have them or have researched them)?

 

[Volt]

I have Solar Panels and a Chevy Volt. I don't know where you live, but I live in Kentucky. I designed and built my own system. I originally installed 30 panels of Schott 235 watts with M215 Enphase Mirco inverters back in 2012. I then added 6 panels of SolarWorld 260-270 watts with Enphase M250 Micro Inverters. Solar is great and works extremely well. Kentucky has zero incentives other than the Federal Tax credits (a few minor exceptions, but generally true)...I would ONLY recommend purchasing them and to never leasing them. Solar will make you a very happy person. Our electric bill usually runs around 20 dollars which is the lowest in can be as you still have to pay a connection fee with most electric companies.

Stick with these items for a safe, efficient, long lasting system

SolarWorld Solar Panels (simply the best)
IronRidge Rails (simply the best)
Enphase Micro Inverters (simply the best)

I have no skin in the game and am NOT an installer so I can give advice without bias I am just an average Joe that installed solar myself. I also recommend a ground mount instead of putting them on your roof if possible for many reasons, but if that isn't possible then put them on your roof.

 

[1tg1]

I am considering panels in Toronto. I noticed very few if any have them on houses around me. This is the last year Ontario will pay 29c/kwh for a 20 year contract. After that, it goes to net metering.

I'm not sure it's a great investment compared to others, but will make a decision shortly as I take offers to construct the system this week.

 

[toelke]

Any thoughts about buying vs leasing panels, or good and bad points of this technology (if you already have them or have researched them)?

IMO leasing is to be avoided in vast majority of cases.
1> You get $0 from the federal tax credit (which knocks 30% off purchase price for most people)
2> You sign a contract for ~20 years.
3> If you find you have to move (which is very common even at under 10-year timeframe) you will have to buy-out the contract *OR* convince the buyer to take over the contract. And the buyer will either say "No thanks, let me look at the next house" or he'll say "Well, if I have to take this extra thing on then I'm only willing to pay $5k less for the property"
4> most leases are bad deals for the homeowner

I bought and installed my system with some help from my family.

First thing is to figure out how much power you use per year. And what the net-metering rules are where you live. (And of course whether you have net metering)

Second thing you need to do is figure out where you can install the modules (panels).
Ideally south facing (in the northern hemisphere) - or slightly west of south so get afternoon sun which for some power companies is worth more $ than morning sun.
Most people put them on the south-facing section of their roof.
Some people do a ground mount - basically metal supports out in a grassy (or gravel) area that will support the modules.
(depends on house location, shading, how much lot you have, etc)

Third is to start making detailed plans or interviewing installers.

 

[PlatinumHybrid]

Thanks for the feedback and info.

I looked into solar panels a few years ago, and decided against them at that time. Now that we'll own a PHEV (and the tax incentives for solar panels has been extended), I'm interested in looking into them again. From my quick research, it seems that the federal government will credit 30% of the project cost, and my state has its own incentive program on top of that as well.

I will most likely wait until 2018 before I consider installing them, as I need to make sure I can claim the full amount of the Pacifica Hybrid's $7500 tax credit this year (which can't be carried forward, unlike solar panels, which can).

 

[AstroEng]

Not yet (renting currently), but I am switching to solar based Renewable Energy Certificates/Green tags (apparently I can't link yet, just look it up on Wikipedia) instead of the normal power provider. Ohio has an open market on power, so I can choose a number of alternative providers. I've found a couple that match or beat the local power rates (and yes, I'm comparing generation to generation, not supply+generation to generation). It seems like a good transition until I can afford some home energy retrofits and eventually solar.

 

[invaderc1]

I've gone full granola. For the power and natural gas that we don't have covered by our solar panels, I'm now buying carbon offsets from Terrapass. Once I get the hybrid I'll probably dial those down, maybe.

 

[relytgerg]

Now that a number of members are in line for a Pacifica Hybrid, is anyone considering adding solar panels to their homes to offset the charging costs of their new PHEV? There are still some pretty attractive tax incentives to install new panels, and that could help save long-term charging costs. I'm starting to get interested in researching these and seeing if they make sense.

Already got them four and a half years ago after buying my Nissan Leaf. They will have paid for themselves in another few years, then it's free charging for the Leaf and the Pacifica.

 

[snorth]

I have Solar Panels and a Chevy Volt. I don't know where you live, but I live in Kentucky. I designed and built my own system. I originally installed 30 panels of Schott 235 watts with M215 Enphase Mirco inverters back in 2012. I then added 6 panels of SolarWorld 260-270 watts with Enphase M250 Micro Inverters. Solar is great and works extremely well. Kentucky has zero incentives other than the Federal Tax credits (a few minor exceptions, but generally true)...I would ONLY recommend purchasing them and to never leasing them. Solar will make you a very happy person. Our electric bill usually runs around 20 dollars which is the lowest in can be as you still have to pay a connection fee with most electric companies.

Stick with these items for a safe, efficient, long lasting system

SolarWorld Solar Panels (simply the best)
IronRidge Rails (simply the best)
Enphase Micro Inverters (simply the best)

I have no skin in the game and am NOT an installer so I can give advice without bias I am just an average Joe that installed solar myself. I also recommend a ground mount instead of putting them on your roof if possible for many reasons, but if that isn't possible then put them on your roof.

Volt, do you have pics?

 

[Volt]

Volt, do you have pics?

I do, but I don't understand how to upload them here. How do you do it? I need a quick tutorial

 

[Volt]

Solar Install

Volt, do you have pics?

Test to see if I uploaded any photos of array. Ok, looks like it worked. The smaller array is directly behind the bigger one. The bigger one was done in 2012 and the smaller one I added in 2015. As you can see, I set the smaller one up to easily add six more panels.

 

[1tg1]

I'm moving forward in Toronto. If anyone else is interested in who I've chosen, send me a PM here.

 

[mattlreese]

I have solar panels, I do not yet own an electric car, but I can give you some advice.

1. I have natural gas heat / hot water & my current system produces about 90% of my yearly electricity needs. So I would have needed a larger system to offset a car. That would have meant more efficient panels and a higher install cost since I already have 22 panels and my roof is full.

Or I could cut down a huge tree that shades my roof for about 2 hours a day, but I do not want to do that.

2. The power companies will only approve a system to at most 1.05 times your current use for the past year. So if you do plan on offsetting your car use you will need to own it for a full year to show the increased power consumption.

3. Incentives are good but I have paid more for my panels every month then I save on electricity with the summer months being close to breaking even.

I have a solar loan, I make monthly payments just like a mortgage. If I had 15k to pay for the panels in cash I would be close to cash flow positive each month.

 

[toelke]

2. The power companies will only approve a system to at most 1.05 times your current use for the past year. So if you do plan on offsetting your car use you will need to own it for a full year to show the increased power consumption.

This is HIGHLY dependent on what state you're in and what power company.
My POCO would allow you to build for the expected power use of a car if you show that you've purchased the car.
Even without that I think they allow a system sized for 110% of past year's use.

3. Incentives are good but I have paid more for my panels every month then I save on electricity with the summer months being close to breaking even.

I have a solar loan,

That's probably better than leasing a system or doing a power-purchase-agreement.
But my advice to anyone else would be to find a better method. A HELOC probably would be better. Cash would be even better yet. Personally I did projections for 5 and 7 years out when I was doing my analysis. I looked at what the net financial result would be in 7 years with/without solar. I included a conservative estimate for rate increases (I think 6%/yr that solar companies use in their sales pitch was high) And I included opportunity cost / interest on the up-front investment. I didn't include an estimate for property valuation change because of the solar. (IMO a house is worth more with a paid off system, but worth less if it's a leased system. But opinions vary on this)

 

[volt779]

We have a 3.15kw SunPower system on our roof with built in microinverters. My buddy just put a 8kw SunPower system on his roof. SunPower makes their panels in America and is a great company.

 

[SolarPwr]

Glad you are thinking about solar panels. We have 28 modules on our roof and love them. They are 310w Heliene 72 cell panels connected with APS microinverters for a total output of 8.7kw. As others mentioned, each state and utility has very different rebates and can dramatically change the financials. MN has very good incentives. It is a lottery system and if you are accepted, they pay you $0.23 per kwh you produce for 10 years. The panels must be made in MN is the only catch. Here is a link to a database of state rebates (I don't have enough posts to attach links, so just remove the spaces before both periods):

www .dsireusa .org/

To other options are Community solar or many utilities will let you specify you want renewable. With Community Solar the panels are located close to you and you purchase an agreed upon amount of energy from the project. This can be helpful if you do not have an ideal location for panels, you don't have to worry about maintenance, and you do get some economies of scale since it is a much larger array. To see if your utility has a renewable option, check with them. Xcel Energy has a program called windsource and you pay a few dollars more a month for energy from windfarms.

We also have another electric car and I find that that vehicle uses on average about 350kwh per month. Winter consumption is considerably higher due to energy needed to warm the battery and the passenger compartment, but the 350 kwh is the average. It is a great feeling knowing that the car you are driving and the electricity you are using for your home are renewable. It is actually addictive because I am trying to add more panels for when we get the Pacifica, but the roof is full!

Good luck.

 

[werace147]

My parents live in Australia and actually get a check from the electricity company every month because the excess they produce is fed back into the grid. I'm living in Georgia USA and a while ago the electricity company was collecting feedback on solar. What they were offering was a complete joke. I'd be surprised if anyone has it around here. Besides electricity is extremely cheap here anyway. I'd still love to have it though but it just doesn't make sense here.

 

[snorth]

Test to see if I uploaded any photos of array. Ok, looks like it worked. The smaller array is directly behind the bigger one. The bigger one was done in 2012 and the smaller one I added in 2015. As you can see, I set the smaller one up to easily add six more panels.

Man, that is sweet. How much square footage did that take up, and how much clearing around it before you get to a tree?

 

[Volt]

The big array is 34 feet wide. The tree line is easily far enough back that no tree could hit the array. It is probably hard to tell from the photos but the closet tree is about 150 feet away.

 

[PlatinumHybrid]

Question for those of you with solar panels:

How do you plan to maintain and service your panels for the longer term? If the federal (and some state) tax credits expire, I would have to believe that many of the solar contractors in business today will leave the industry, thereby reducing the pool of techs who work on these systems (or in some areas, eliminating them completely). Is it reasonable to assume that there would be enough solar techs still in business to service panels and systems that need work? Or possibly to remove and reinstall panels if a roofing issue requires that service?

I'm getting somewhat concerned that once the panels are in place, servicing them may be difficult (if not impossible) in the long run if the panels are owned. It's not like the cable/satellite company, phone company, or power company where I have a business I can call with issues. I guess you could make the same argument with electricians and plumbers- but I feel like solar isn't as ubiquitous as the other trades that are well established in modern life. And even if one leases their panels (or does a PPA), what happens if the solar company (like SolarCity) goes under. Who services that lease?

What are your thoughts? Or am I off base here?