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How many miles do you average per tank of gas?

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We were able to get 921.4 miles on a tank of gas and it used 10.249 gallons which is 89.9 mpg, but the readout said 36.9 mpg. What?! It makes no sense. You would think Chrysler would want to display the highest amount to promote the hybrid's advantages, but no they just come up with a random number. If you were to go off the reading then you would be disappointed thinking you are getting the same fuel economy as the Toyota Sienna, but it's almost 3x better. Very strange.

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MPG and MPGe by themselves are useful, but averaging them together is not. It heavily depends on the miles driven in EV vs Hybrid mode. The same goes for miles per tank. If you drive only short local routes they will be limited only by FORM. My odo is over 1000 miles, and I still have 7/8 of the tank filled by the dealer. I had only one short out of town trip.
 

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You're forgetting an important variable, most of the miles were not from gasoline so it's not fair to say 89.9 mpg. Unless you're charging for free, you'll need to calculate your charging cost into an equivalent mpg.

This is how I calculate equivalent mpg: 1 gallon of gas costs me $2.50 and I can drive 30 miles. It costs me $1 to charge and I can drive 30 miles. So if I spend $2.50 to charge, I can drive it 75 miles. So my combined mpg is somewhere between 30 and 75, closer to 75 since 70% of my miles are in EV.
 
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cost for charging has to formulated into the overall cost as your either driving electric or gas . Here in Ontario the charging is free so it’s a wash and if I charge at home I calculate the cost to charge the battery based on what it takes me to complete a full battery charge . That consumption is then messaged to me from ChargePoint, as they are my home charger in my garage , and then I calculate my cost vs from my electric provider and then realize my mage cost . Here’s what I’m sitting at with zero electric cost as I charge for free when I’m out shopping , gym , work , parking , store which is 42 mpg. Hence the reason I live this thing , something this size driven normally and getting 42 mpg is a no brainer .
 

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You're forgetting an important variable, most of the miles were not from gasoline so it's not fair to say 89.9 mpg. Unless you're charging for free, you'll need to calculate your charging cost into an equivalent mpg.
In other words, "miles per gallon" is a meaningless measure.

And frankly, it always has been. Diesel owners have always crowed about "look at me, I get 49mpg!" as if that particular number in and of itself is universally meaningful. It's not. For example, they never took into account how much more expensive diesel was than gasoline. What, if you were pouring liquid gold into your tank, would you be crowing about "my MPG number is bigger than yours"? I think not.

The only real meaningful number is dollars/mile--or, for you other crowd members, number of miles per ten dollars. Whatever. Because that's what we really mean when we talk about MPG--it's a cost measure. When everyone uses gasoline, we all know about what it costs across the board--so saying "I got more miles per gallon" is really saying "I spent less money to drive the vehicle".

That's why the sticker MPG rating on cars, while unobtainable, is still meaningful: it standardizes the testing and gives you a comparison of about how much it will cost you to drive one vehicle vs another.

I'm paying overall about 12 cents/KWH, so there's that figure to get a sense of those first 25 to 39 miles (depending on weather). Then there's the hybrid-only drive time, which is another. I haven't had the van long enough to have extensive experience with a solid mix of plug-in vs hybrid miles, but I know it will cost me less than driving my old Odyssey.

But what I DO have is a solid two weeks and over 1800 miles of hybrid only use. I didn't collect ALL the numbers from every fillup, but I do have some solid data: using hand calculations on a few tanks, it looks like hybrid-only driving gives me 30-31 miles/gallon on the road (even through the mountains) and 23-24 miles/gallon on local surface street stop and go driving.

The MPG meter in the trip meter pretty much matches that.

And compared to my two old Odysseys, those are great numbers. That's my real reference.

I know Car and Driver claimed that they got better than 31 on the highway on their gas-only Pacifica, but they just tossed that out as a claim with no data or reference to back it up.

Anyway, it's just a cost to drive measurement that we're looking for. I don't think Chrysler's on-board meters do a good job of showing that. You'll have to figure it out by hand. And to plug it in all the time and use a tank of gas over a 6 month period and declare that "I got 989 miles per gallon!" or some such drivel is ridiculous. Nobody cares about the gasoline use. It's all about the energy cost per mile to drive. When gasoline is NOT your sole source of energy, "miles per gallon" is meaningless.

Next up: add in maintenance costs, and start figuring out your REAL cost per mile to drive the car. Then amortize the acquisition cost of the van itself--any loan costs, the opportunity costs, etc. Some people do this for a living. They're at UPS and Amazon.
 

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Yeah, I agree and like your idea of the miles per $10. But then they would have to include a table that has different cost per gallon and cost per kWh, lol.
 

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If I had an EVSE that tracked all this, it would be easy. Start with a full tank and a full battery, and start driving and charging. At some point, fill the tank up and fill the battery up. EVSE tells how much EV juice went in, and gas pump tells how much dino juice went in. Add up the costs and the miles, and do the math.
 
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We were able to get 921.4 miles on a tank of gas and it used 10.249 gallons which is 89.9 mpg, but the readout said 36.9 mpg
If you look at your display, you will see a gas pump beside the 36.9 mpg figure. So that is showing a number for mpg while using gas.
 
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If you look at your display, you will see a gas pump beside the 36.9 mpg figure. So that is showing a number for mpg while using gas.
No, that's the combined number for gas and EV. Because mine says 54 mpg, there's no way that's my average on gas over 3,500 miles.
 

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Besides the cost, the MPG and MPGe numbers are also useful to keep track of your driving style and the car's performance.
 

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No, that's the combined number for gas and EV. Because mine says 54 mpg, there's no way that's my average on gas over 3,500 miles.
This should be assumed. The vehicle can run in electric-only mode, but not gas-only mode. Whenever the ICE is running there is always some degree of assist from the electric part of the powertrain.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You're forgetting an important variable, most of the miles were not from gasoline so it's not fair to say 89.9 mpg. Unless you're charging for free, you'll need to calculate your charging cost into an equivalent mpg.

This is how I calculate equivalent mpg: 1 gallon of gas costs me $2.50 and I can drive 30 miles. It costs me $1 to charge and I can drive 30 miles. So if I spend $2.50 to charge, I can drive it 75 miles. So my combined mpg is somewhere between 30 and 75, closer to 75 since 70% of my miles are in EV.
I think people are confusing MPG for cost/mile. MPG is very simple, how many miles did I drive on one gallon of gasoline. That's it, there is no cost associated with the number, whether it's cost of electricity or cost of a gallon. I agree that we should be discussing cost/mile especially with hybrids and EVs. The problem is there are variables for each person when it comes to calculating their cost, electricity rates and the always changing cost of gasoline. We have enough solar on our house that we even out our electricity use so our charging cost is $0.00 for both our vehicles, including our Chevy Spark EV. That makes our cost/mile very low compared to everyone else without solar especially if you have limited access to a charger.

My point is if the car has a MPG reading it should show the actual Miles Per Gallon, not some calculation associated with the equivalent cost of electricity balancing with the gasoline usage. I appreciate the discussion though! It's always good to hear everyone's opinion. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here's a great video discussing MPG and it's silliness. It's fascinating how the rest of the world uses volume/distance and how that is a better measurement, especially for efficiency.

 

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I think people are confusing MPG for cost/mile.
I agree.

But to be fair, for the longest time MPG was a fair estimate of fuel cost to travel. Everybody used the same gas, and we all knew generally what gas prices were. While nobody ever used cost/mile, that's what they meant.

I've been saying "use cost/mile" for a long time, when hearing diesel owners talk about their fluid fuel usage as if the mpg number were actually meaningful compared to gasoline fueled cars. It never was, but that didn't stop those people from declaring their (undeserved) smugness. They might as well have been declaring unicorn farts per furlong.

Hybrids started to change things, although MPG was still a fair comparison with other cars. The first hybrids used gasoline as their sole source of outside fuel, and simply managed it better than their non-hybrid competitors.

When plug-ins started happening, hybrid or straight EV, that should have changed everyone's thinking. But it didn't. I still don't get the whole MPGe thing.

My point is if the car has a MPG reading it should show the actual Miles Per Gallon, not some calculation associated with the equivalent cost of electricity balancing with the gasoline usage.
100% this.
 
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It’s a hybrid powertrain so it’s going to show you a combined number as it uses both the battery and engine seamlessly depending on the drivers input . If it was solely electric you would see the same only it’s dependant on your miles to battery usage. The setting g will show you both , as it should , but it’s up to you to either reset trip a or b . You shouldn’t over complicate this , it’s relatively a simple equation of distance , usage of what power source and running time clock .
 

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It’s a hybrid powertrain so it’s going to show you a combined number as it uses both the battery and engine seamlessly depending on the drivers input .
Unfortunately, even with putting no source of energy into the van other than gasoline, it will still show "EV miles"--that is, miles that were driven (a) while in hybrid mode, yet (b) which were run without the help of the gasoline engine.

That is completely wrong in my book, and in anyone's book. I put gasoline in; I'd like to know how many miles that amount of gasoline took me. That is a single number.

I calculate it by hand, and ignore the goofy tripmeter stuff.
 
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We were able to get 921.4 miles on a tank of gas and it used 10.249 gallons which is 89.9 mpg, but the readout said 36.9 mpg. What?! It makes no sense. You would think Chrysler would want to display the highest amount to promote the hybrid's advantages, but no they just come up with a random number. If you were to go off the reading then you would be disappointed thinking you are getting the same fuel economy as the Toyota Sienna, but it's almost 3x better. Very strange.

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Mine is averaging 70 mpg after 3000 miles, 500 of which are from gas usage
 

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I think the MPG is based on both the gas used AND the regeneration miles generated both while using EV or gas. Thus only the MPG is the hybrid (regen) and gas miles combined are used in the calculation but the straight EV miles from direct charging are not included. I haven't read this anywhere official, but it seems accurate to me based on my observations.
 

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In new York electricity is about $.20 per kWh which means charging the battery costs $3 and gets 30 miles. Almost the exact cost as gas.
 
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