[helperofhamburgers]

Hello, all! I have been lurking around the forums for a while to learn. This will be kind of a long post about purchasing a used Pacifica Hybrid.

I currently own a 2011 Suburban LT. I've had it for about a year and half and appreciate it. It's in great shape, but has about 190k miles. I got it for a song after my 2008 Chevrolet Uplander was totaled by a car running a stop sign. Before that, I'd had a couple of other minivans. We need a pretty large vehicle because we have five kiddos (and also a German Shepherd). The Suburban was not the vehicle I would have chosen given the option, but we were about to move, needed a car, and like I said it was a great deal. And it's a good vehicle! I just prefer something a bit more maneuverable and less truck-like.

Anyway. Over the past few months, as gas prices have increased, we have been spending about $300 on gas each month. It hurts, and I expect it to increase a bit over the summer. (Our second vehicle is a Honda Helix motor scooter that gets 70 mpg, so I like to save at the pump.) I had been vaguely looking at other options for a family hauler since the fall, and after a while zeroed in on the PacHy. We even had a Pacifica (gas) for a week while our Suburban was in the shop after a deer hit us (yes; it hit us, not the other way around). We drove it on a seven-hour trip to visit family and I quite liked it. I like that it holds us all, can carry enough stuff in the back, and would be a little smaller than the Suburban. But the biggest thing is the fuel.

There are six places we regularly go: my work, the kids' school, two grocery stores, church, and the city play fields for sports. All of them are between 4 and 11 miles away, and I would say they make up at least 90% of our day-to-day driving. It seems that if we had a PacHy, we would very rarely have to use the gas engine. If we could go from $300 to maybe $50 a month in gas, that would be tremendous. But I have some thoughts and questions and things.

It seems I can find used 2017 and 2018 PacHy with around 35–50k miles for about $33–$34k. Not a lot of them, but I think I would be able to get one within a couple hours of me if I decided to pull the trigger. My Suburban is probably worth about $11k in private sale, give or take. I would be able to pay cash for the vehicle if needed. (I'm not well off, but we really skimped and saved before we moved.) So, that would leave us somewhere around $25k after taxes and fees. I've never paid more than $7k for a vehicle, so this is pretty daunting. And I've never bought anything from a dealer (even a used-car dealer), so I'm a bit nervous about that, too. I know I would've gotten a little better deal a year or so ago, because used car prices weren't quite so bad and there would have been more value in my Suburban, but oh well.

Then there's the whole recall thing. I know the 2017–18 hybrids have been recalled without any remedy yet, and that it might be a long time. I know it doesn't prevent a vehicle being sold, and the main reason for buying this would be for its electric range and hybrid ability, so I would have to decide if it's worth it to plug it in and drive it with my kiddos, or not. (But part of me also has my fingers crossed that the solution will be a brand-new battery pack that will extend the useful life of the vehicle.)

I do not fully understand how all the warranty possibilities work. It looks like there won't be any of the 3-year original warranty left. I am confused especially about the battery. I have read that there is some kind of federal standard that requires the battery to be covered for 8 years or 100k miles (I am not in a ZEV state). Is that correct? And what does that mean, exactly? I haven't found anything about what would qualify a battery as no longer functioning appropriately, such as a 70% capacity threshold or something. And if my battery was having issues, would I just take this up with the nearest Chrysler dealer?

I am sure I have other questions, I just can't think of them. I appreciate any thoughts you might have on the whole idea of this purchase. Thank you!

Questions/thoughts:

• Am I correct thinking that we would use hardly any gas day-to-day?
• How much does the A/C affect the electric-only range? It gets warm here and humid for several months a year.
• What is the reality of using a rooftop cargo bag (flexible, not one of the nice hard cases) with the panoramic roof?
• Is there any flexibility in used-car prices from dealers these days? My assumption is no.
• I have read so many mentions of bad A/C compressors. Is this as widespread as it seems? I can't go without A/C here in the summer with kids.

 

[CANADAHYBRIDGUY]

Ac affects your ehybrid mileage like it would with any vehicle , as would using a bag on the roof . You’d be able to use the bag but I personally wouldn’t use it alone , you could attach a roof basket and use the bag in conjunction with that . Gas mileage vs hybrid mileage is all dependant on your driving style and driving usages , but you’ll def be saving gas from your suburban. I’d drive one prior to making the final decision , although, you kinda picked a bad time because of lack of supple and pricing . There’s been a handful of comp complaints compared to the “ million vehicles that have been produced “ , anytime majority of people come to a forum is to complain and bitch really . Good luck on your decision and happy motoring

 

[zhenya]

You are correct that the plug-in would allow you to use very little gas. I would suggest you budget for the installation of a good L2 charger so that you can re-charge between those short trips in 2 hours rather than 12.

A/C typically consumes between 1-4kW which, depending on how much idling you do, will consume ~10-20% of the range. In practice it's not that noticeable, however in cold weather the electric heat can easily consume half the available range.

I would not buy a recalled model unless you were planning on plugging it in while you waited for battery replacement. It could be a long wait and a lot of gas burned in the meantime.

 

[Tri-C]

If I was in your shoes, I would be more inclined to spend mid-teens in a private sale on an original owner Toyota Sienna or Honda Odyssey with around 100,000 miles.

 

[jnads]

1. Yes you would absolutely save tons of money with a PacHy. Even running on gas without the electric savings, you're the perfect candidate. As I calculated yesterday you'd probably save $700-900 per year on gas from MPG improvement alone with your city usage.
2. $34,000 seems a bit rich but I don't know what the market is like nowdays. Keep in mind while you will have a wait if you order one, you will qualify for the $7500 full tax credit. I've heard of people finding brand new PacHys on lots and being able to buy them. Even now that MSRP is like $50,000, the tax credit works that down to $42,500.
3. The 8 year, 100,000 mile battery warranty is fully transferrable, yes. The used ones would be covered under that.

For the electric savings, you'd have to look at the cost of electricity on your electric bill, and check whether your utility company offers EV charging plans. The PacHy can be charged on 110V overnight, as long as your usage is strictly less than 30 miles per day / per trip. A Level 2 charger can cost $500-1000 to install for more frequent 30 mile trips.


Our 2020 PacHy has 20,000 miles on it now (probably 60% EV miles), and we haven't had a single issue. We paid $30,600 + TTL after the tax credit back then though.



Honestly, go on the Chrysler inventory system. Go search various zip codes around you and go find "in stock" Pacifica Hybrids. (I say that with quotes because it'll often show vehicles that are already sold or in transit via rail). I'd even find zip codes around you and search 500 mile radius (take a long drive).

Then go to that dealers site and see if they're charging extra markup (or better e-mail them).

Limited is probably the best bang-for-buck trim (ventilated seats), but Touring Ls aren't bad either.

Chrysler Search New Inventory Based on Zip Code

Search new inventory to locate Chrysler vehicles close to your zip code. Explore vehicle details, build & price, and find a local Chrysler dealer today.

www.chrysler.com

The advantage of getting a new one is MOPAR Warranties are cheap. You can get a 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty for $2,000 and basically have your vehicle bumper-to-bumper covered for 8 years (average mileage is 12,500 miles a year or 100k miles after 8 years).

Basically guaranteed a good working fuel efficient vehicle for 8 years.


NOTE 1: You mentioned you have kids, if they are young kids I can confirm 3 Diono Radian car seats fit in the PacHy 3rd row 3-across.

NOTE 2: You do need to make a decent income to get the full $7,500 tax credit. You said you have 5 kids. Due to the child tax credit you'd proabably need to make a fairly hefty family income ($100k+ combined marital). Refundable credits (kids) come off the tax bill before non-refundable credits (the EV credit is non-refundable meaning if you don't owe taxes you don't get money). You'd have to pull your 1040 and look at your taxes paid last year and subtract all the refundable credits you got. If you don't have $7500 left over then you wouldn't benefit.

There are some tricks you can do to use the $7,500 credit, like rolling 401k money into a Roth IRA to generate taxable income. Doing that is basically folding the $7,500 into your retirement account (since ROTH IRA money is tax free when you retire, whereas 401k you pay taxes when you withdrawl the money as you retire).

 

[Podivin]

I recently purchased a 2018 PacHy (I knew about the recall before I purchased it). I've had it for about two months and so far it's been trouble free. Like you most of my trips are 'local'. I've driven it about 500 miles and I'm still just under 3/4 of tank - on the first tank I put in it. It would have more than that, but I bought it 120 miles from home, so those highway miles coming home took most of the first 1/4 tank.
A big difference between your usage and mine is that there are never more than two of us in the van, which means that the rear climate control never gets turned on. Because you're going to be having a van full, which mean both more weight and rear climate control on, I'd suggest that you base your EV mileage assumptions on a number less than 34 miles. I'd suggest something like 25 miles per EV charge, and if you get more than that - great. Though I think you should PLAN on getting less than 34. Much less in winter if you live in a cold state (I'm in Florida - so a non-issue for me).
It takes ~12 hours to charge from 'empty' to 'full' on the battery, so as suggested above you might want to look into a level 2 charger so you can make multiple trips in a day if necessary. Alternately you research using 240 volts on the level 1 charger that comes with the van. That's what I'm doing and it has cut the charging time in half. So not as fast as a level 2 charger, but I can put on miles in the morning, recharge and have a full charge to go again later in the day. For ME that's sufficient.
Also, keep in mind that charging isn't free, though it is much less expensive than gas. Take a look at your power bill and see how much you're paying per kwh. The use that to calculate how much it will cost you to recharge the battery from empty. For me it's about 75 cents.

 

[Podivin]

If I'm not mistaken, the $7500 tax credit does not apply to buying a used car, only new. I don't think the government is going to give away $7500 every time one of these gets resold.

 

[jnads]

If I'm not mistaken, the $7500 tax credit does not apply to buying a used car, only new. I don't think the government is going to give away $7500 every time one of these gets resold.

You are correct, the $7500 tax credit is only for new.

Your 2nd statement is not entirely true, the Build Back Better plan (which did not pass) provided a separate tax credit for people below a certain income buying a used EV.

 

[helperofhamburgers]

1. Yes you would absolutely save tons of money with a PacHy. Even running on gas without the electric savings, you're the perfect candidate. As I calculated yesterday you'd probably save $700-900 per year on gas from MPG improvement alone with your city usage.
2. $34,000 seems a bit rich but I don't know what the market is like nowdays. Keep in mind while you will have a wait if you order one, you will qualify for the $7500 full tax credit. I've heard of people finding brand new PacHys on lots and being able to buy them. Even now that MSRP is like $50,000, the tax credit works that down to $42,500.

....

Thank you, I appreciate your input and your math. I like numbers, which is why I've been pursuing this. I have looked at new inventory, but our tax situation is such that we would not make use of the $7500 credit, unfortunately. That makes it a lot harder to swallow the purchase price of used, knowing that a new one wouldn't be whole lot more if we could. But that situation is unlikely to change in the next couple of years (me in graduate school full-time, five dependents, and less income than in past years due to those two things mean little tax liability).

I had not thought about the 401k rollover generating taxable income; I don't think that would quite make up the difference for us, but it's worth having on the radar.

I searched today and it seems tough to find anything new less than $48k. If we could make use of the credit we'd be down around $40 (for a touring trim). It seems that the $7k difference between new and used with 40k miles is right on the edge of worth it.

 

[jnads]

Thank you, I appreciate your input and your math. I like numbers, which is why I've been pursuing this. I have looked at new inventory, but our tax situation is such that we would not make use of the $7500 credit, unfortunately. That makes it a lot harder to swallow the purchase price of used, knowing that a new one wouldn't be whole lot more if we could

Honestly, I am not brand loyal.

You should look into a used 2020-2021 Toyota Sienna (or even new).

It gets 35 mpg city. If you get the XLE it has an 8 seat option.

I think MSRP on the XLE is like 42k.

The main advantage of the Pacifica over the Sienna is if you live in a state with absurdly low electricity costs. Like the Southwest (Georgia, NC, etc). Or New York.

 

[ThisSuckersElectrical]

Do my last three fill-ups say anything?

 

[jnads]

Do my last three fill-ups say anything?

Not really, your numbers mean nothing without posted detailed information about your electric company and detailed breakdown of electric price, electric distribution fees, taxes, fees, etc, etc.

If it's solar then I would need to see your solar install cost, sun radiance numbers (winter and summer) and rated and real solar panel decay curves (they don't produce 100W per panel forever).

Otherwise those numbers are meaningless to me. If it were actually that cheap energy companies would have done it 10 years ago en masse.


Too many people lie to themselves to make them feel better about their purchases. Cognitive Dissonance.


Even I had to actually sit down and itemize my electric bill to see that my vehicle costs 12 cents per kWh in the Winter and 17 cents per kWh from May-September (my fake energy cost is 4 cents per kWh... it's not until all the extra stuff is added that I get the true cost). Which is basically 5 cents and 7 cents per mile, respectively (I don't have efficiency numbers but I assume based on the size of usable battery and 30 mile range the Pacifica Hybrid is rated for 400 Wh/mi... my Tesla is rated for 240 Wh/mi).

I know there are some states like Georgia that are heavily Nuclear and energy is cheap there. But even after adding all the fees it's more like 5-6 cents per kWh (3 cents per mile), and Georgia charges an EV fee.


Also I would need to know your state as a lot of states now charge an extra registration fee for EVs / PHEVs (like 30 out of 50). Some are even charging extra fees on normal hybrids.

 

[helperofhamburgers]

Honestly, I am not brand loyal.

You should look into a used 2020-2021 Toyota Sienna (or even new).

It gets 35 mpg city. If you get the XLE it has an 8 seat option.

I think MSRP on the XLE is like 42k.

The main advantage of the Pacifica over the Sienna is if you live in a state with absurdly low electricity costs. Like the Southwest (Georgia, NC, etc). Or New York.

I have looked some into other brands. But the cost is more, and the fuel savings will be much less, assuming that most of my driving would be all-electric with a PacHy. I do have quite low electrical costs, so the EV range is pretty key in this decision. In our previous home, where many of our trips were 20+ miles, with frequent 150+ mile trips (3 or 4 per month), a hybrid like the Sienna would probably make a better choice, given its other pluses (I've had great reliability with Toyota in the past, slightly newer, more dealers nearby, 8th seat, etc.).

The cost-to-benefit-to-hassle ratio on this idea is starting to feel a bit stretched; perhaps I am trying to fix something that ain't broke, so to speak. Historically we've just driven our vehicles until they weren't worth repairing anymore, trying to get the most out of them. There may be another 100k miles left in the Suburban, but stomaching the fuel costs is what gets me. If it's going to be our primary vehicle for five more years, then the time to go more fuel-efficient is probably now, so we can get the most gain from those years of efficiency (and the most cash back from selling the Suburban). If it's only got a year or two left in it anyway, then the best thing is probably to wait, as fuel and used-car costs may decline again, making the cost of upgrading more palatable.

As usual, I am having some analysis paralysis. Thanks for your input and knowledge.

 

[Art]

Hello, all! I have been lurking around the forums for a while to learn. This will be kind of a long post about purchasing a used Pacifica Hybrid.

I currently own a 2011 Suburban LT. I've had it for about a year and half and appreciate it. It's in great shape, but has about 190k miles. I got it for a song after my 2008 Chevrolet Uplander was totaled by a car running a stop sign. Before that, I'd had a couple of other minivans. We need a pretty large vehicle because we have five kiddos (and also a German Shepherd). The Suburban was not the vehicle I would have chosen given the option, but we were about to move, needed a car, and like I said it was a great deal. And it's a good vehicle! I just prefer something a bit more maneuverable and less truck-like.

Anyway. Over the past few months, as gas prices have increased, we have been spending about $300 on gas each month. It hurts, and I expect it to increase a bit over the summer. (Our second vehicle is a Honda Helix motor scooter that gets 70 mpg, so I like to save at the pump.) I had been vaguely looking at other options for a family hauler since the fall, and after a while zeroed in on the PacHy. We even had a Pacifica (gas) for a week while our Suburban was in the shop after a deer hit us (yes; it hit us, not the other way around). We drove it on a seven-hour trip to visit family and I quite liked it. I like that it holds us all, can carry enough stuff in the back, and would be a little smaller than the Suburban. But the biggest thing is the fuel.

There are six places we regularly go: my work, the kids' school, two grocery stores, church, and the city play fields for sports. All of them are between 4 and 11 miles away, and I would say they make up at least 90% of our day-to-day driving. It seems that if we had a PacHy, we would very rarely have to use the gas engine. If we could go from $300 to maybe $50 a month in gas, that would be tremendous. But I have some thoughts and questions and things.

It seems I can find used 2017 and 2018 PacHy with around 35–50k miles for about $33–$34k. Not a lot of them, but I think I would be able to get one within a couple hours of me if I decided to pull the trigger. My Suburban is probably worth about $11k in private sale, give or take. I would be able to pay cash for the vehicle if needed. (I'm not well off, but we really skimped and saved before we moved.) So, that would leave us somewhere around $25k after taxes and fees. I've never paid more than $7k for a vehicle, so this is pretty daunting. And I've never bought anything from a dealer (even a used-car dealer), so I'm a bit nervous about that, too. I know I would've gotten a little better deal a year or so ago, because used car prices weren't quite so bad and there would have been more value in my Suburban, but oh well.

Then there's the whole recall thing. I know the 2017–18 hybrids have been recalled without any remedy yet, and that it might be a long time. I know it doesn't prevent a vehicle being sold, and the main reason for buying this would be for its electric range and hybrid ability, so I would have to decide if it's worth it to plug it in and drive it with my kiddos, or not. (But part of me also has my fingers crossed that the solution will be a brand-new battery pack that will extend the useful life of the vehicle.)

I do not fully understand how all the warranty possibilities work. It looks like there won't be any of the 3-year original warranty left. I am confused especially about the battery. I have read that there is some kind of federal standard that requires the battery to be covered for 8 years or 100k miles (I am not in a ZEV state). Is that correct? And what does that mean, exactly? I haven't found anything about what would qualify a battery as no longer functioning appropriately, such as a 70% capacity threshold or something. And if my battery was having issues, would I just take this up with the nearest Chrysler dealer?

I am sure I have other questions, I just can't think of them. I appreciate any thoughts you might have on the whole idea of this purchase. Thank you!

Questions/thoughts:

• Am I correct thinking that we would use hardly any gas day-to-day?
• How much does the A/C affect the electric-only range? It gets warm here and humid for several months a year.
• What is the reality of using a rooftop cargo bag (flexible, not one of the nice hard cases) with the panoramic roof?
• Is there any flexibility in used-car prices from dealers these days? My assumption is no.
• I have read so many mentions of bad A/C compressors. Is this as widespread as it seems? I can't go without A/C here in the summer with kids.

Greetings
My wife and I owned four new Chryslers before buying the Pacifica we now have new in 2019. We just noticed the paint bubbling on the hood. I found out this is an ongoing factory defect Chrysler has known about for years. I will contact the dealer but I don't want the car any longer. What other defects does it have we don't know about? I am probably going to contact a lawyer and find out what my options are.

 

[Podivin]

If you don't KNOW about the defects, do they even exist? Sure other cars may have some defects, but that doesn't mean that yours does. Seems like calling a lawyer before even talking to the dealer and/or Chrysler is a bit excessive.

 

[CANADAHYBRIDGUY]

Greetings
My wife and I owned four new Chryslers before buying the Pacifica we now have new in 2019. We just noticed the paint bubbling on the hood. I found out this is an ongoing factory defect Chrysler has known about for years. I will contact the dealer but I don't want the car any longer. What other defects does it have we don't know about? I am probably going to contact a lawyer and find out what my options are.

I think you might want to be aware that defects in the auto manufacturing industry are generally fixed , history tells us that all manufacturing processes can be flawed and that they will fix them either through good will or being forced to do so by recalls . If your that naive about defects you best probably not buy anything in life . No matter what you buy it has the potential to be flawed no matter what product your buying . Do some research on ways to handle these situations , you’ll save yourself some time and money , the internet is full of some pretty useful information and can make you a much better informed consumer .