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I don't think the EVSE will work with an open neutral.
Interestingly, ‘neutral’ is not really a good name for the ‘other’ conductor of a 120VAC line. The word ‘neutral’ could make a person think there is no current flowing through it. But, in fact, in a properly operating circuit there is always just as much current flowing through the neutral as there is through the ‘hot’.

Another trivia point. Some people believe that it’s not possible to have a GFCI circuit if there’s no ground present (i.e. on a two-wire AC circuit). But that begs the question: why do most two-wire (non-grounded) hair dryers have a GFCI built into the plug? The answer relates to what I pointed out in the first paragraph. A properly operating circuit always has the same amount of current flowing through the hot as the neutral. So if you can measure the current flow through the hot conductor and the current flow through the neutral conductor and compare them, they should always be the same. If they are not the same something is wrong. Current is being drained off somewhere where it shouldn’t be (i.e. you are in a bathtub full of water using a hair dryer and some of the current flowing through the hot conductor is flowing through your body and the water to the drain pipe). Even a GFCI on a two-wire circuit can detect this and break the circuit to protect you. It doesn’t have to specifically detect current flowing to the ground. It can simply detect that a stray current is flowing somewhere other than between hot and neutral.
 

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One thing an open neutral can do is give a shock to anyone grabbing it, assuming they are the path to ground.
It can give a shock to anyone grabbing what? (i.e. what is ‘it’ above?)
“One thing an open neutral can do is give a shock to anyone grabbing it” is an independent clause.. In this part of the sentence “an open neutral” is the object and is therefore the “it” within this sentence structure.

The “assuming they are the path to ground.” Is a dependant clause. In this case, it is the condition in which the independent clause is to be considered correct.

My translation: You can be shocked if you are grounded and touch a live but interrupted neutral wire.

I know your an electrical engineer, however you seem to enjoy making simple ideas overly complicated (to make yourself look good maybe?).. This information is not quantum entanglement and well within the grasp of mere mortals.

His statement holds value..

Also, “Neutral” is the name accepted by IEEE for single phase and 3 phase AC (IEEE C62.92.4-2014)

It doesnt matter if its a poor name in your opinion. Its the name it has.
 

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Get a simple outlet tester and make sure the outlet is wired correctly.

Then I would try, if it isn't harming you, is trying to replicate else where.

If you can replicate with another charger in another location you can confirm or eliminate the home electrical and EVSE out of the equation. Process of elimination with troubleshooting.

After that you'll know exactly how and under what conditions for the dealer so you don't end up with a wasted "cannot replicate issue" trip.

1st, understand how to replicate at home
2nd, try OEM EVSE on another standard outlet somewhere else. Ideally a different building. If no longer happens, maybe the house? If it still happens, it's either EVSE or the van.
3rd, try a level 2 public charger or 2. Still happen? If yes it's likely the van. If not...
4th, try another 120v EVSE (may need dealer assistance). If it's still happening, it's the van. If not, it's the OEM EVSE

EVSE is pretty simple though. It only supplies the power to the van. The charger and brains are all in the van. My guess is there's a short or leak somewhere in the van's charging circuit if it's only happening with the charging.

Another test would be to start the van without the EVSE plugged in and see if it happens. If it does it's not specific to the charger and could be the battery circuitry as a whole.

If there's any doubt that it's harming you or could harm you, take it straight to the dealer.
 

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“One thing an open neutral can do is give a shock to anyone grabbing it” is an independent clause.. In this part of the sentence “an open neutral” is the object and is therefore the “it” within this sentence structure.

The “assuming they are the path to ground.” Is a dependant clause. In this case, it is the condition in which the independent clause is to be considered correct.

My translation: You can be shocked if you are grounded and touch a live but interrupted neutral wire.

I know your an electrical engineer, however you seem to enjoy making simple ideas overly complicated (to make yourself look good maybe?).. This information is not quantum entanglement and well within the grasp of mere mortals.

His statement holds value..

Also, “Neutral” is the name accepted by IEEE for single phase and 3 phase AC (IEEE C62.92.4-2014)

It doesnt matter if its a poor name in your opinion. Its the name it has.
Your translation is pretty much spot on. And, by the way, I originally thought that the OP meant this. My only reason for asking the question is to verify that he was actually making the mistake that I thought he was. His statement doesn’t make sense. What is an ‘open neutral’? Either the neutral is connected to neutral as it should be or it’s not. When it’s not connected to anything it’s ‘open’. If a wire is not connected to anything you don’t get shocked from it because it’s not carrying any current.

The reason neutral is called neutral is because it is earthed and not considered dangerous. If you touch it you’re not going to get shocked because it’s at the same voltage potential as the earth which you are standing on and no current will flow through you. However, if a neutral wire is not well grounded or connected to earth, then you could get shocked from it. But the neutral would not be considered ‘open’. It is simply not grounded.

My mission is not to overly complicate anything. Some people hear an expression which is incorrect and then they perpetuate that expression by re-stating it. Stating that 240VAC is two phases or stating that you can get shocked from an open neutral are two such expressions. I’m just seeking to correct, in this case, common misperceptions. 240VAC is not referred to as two phases because it’s single phase and an ‘open neutral’ will not shock you because it’s not connected to anything. An improperly grounded neutral could, possibly, shock you.
 

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What is an ‘open neutral’? Either the neutral is connected to neutral as it should be or it’s not. When it’s not connected to anything it’s ‘open’. If a wire is not connected to anything you don’t get shocked from it because it’s not carrying any current.
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

Open circiut by definition: “an electrical circuit in which the continuity is broken so that current does not flow”

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/open circuit

This does not say its “not connected to anything”

A simple switch breaks the continuity in a circuit so current cannot flow. Does this mean power is removed from the supply side of that switch? Or ground from the Ground side? If so a switch would not be very effective..

TECHNICALLY: getting Shocked IS completing a circuit, whether direct or indirect, so the victim here would technically be wrong that the circuit is open - while being electrocuted..

The danger of a Neutral wire that is open circuit because the ground had been disconnecyed should not be played with - Safety First.


My mission is not to overly complicate anything. Some people hear an expression which is incorrect and then they perpetuate that expression by re-stating it. Stating that 240VAC is two phases or stating that you can get shocked from an open neutral are two such expressions. I’m just seeking to correct, in this case, common misperceptions. 240VAC is not referred to as two phases because it’s single phase and an ‘open neutral’ will not shock you because it’s not connected to anything. An improperly grounded neutral could, possibly, shock you.
So IEEE Is incorrect in using the name Neutral?

I’m sorry.. i’m out.
 

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Your translation is pretty much spot on. And, by the way, I originally thought that the OP meant this. My only reason for asking the question is to verify that he was actually making the mistake that I thought he was. His statement doesn’t make sense. What is an ‘open neutral’? Either the neutral is connected to neutral as it should be or it’s not. When it’s not connected to anything it’s ‘open’. If a wire is not connected to anything you don’t get shocked from it because it’s not carrying any current.

The reason neutral is called neutral is because it is earthed and not considered dangerous. If you touch it you’re not going to get shocked because it’s at the same voltage potential as the earth which you are standing on and no current will flow through you. However, if a neutral wire is not well grounded or connected to earth, then you could get shocked from it. But the neutral would not be considered ‘open’. It is simply not grounded.

My mission is not to overly complicate anything. Some people hear an expression which is incorrect and then they perpetuate that expression by re-stating it. Stating that 240VAC is two phases or stating that you can get shocked from an open neutral are two such expressions. I’m just seeking to correct, in this case, common misperceptions. 240VAC is not referred to as two phases because it’s single phase and an ‘open neutral’ will not shock you because it’s not connected to anything. An improperly grounded neutral could, possibly, shock you.
It may be a small point but if a neutral, white wire or whatever you choose to call it, is not connected to ground or the neutral bus, it is electrically connected to the hot lead assuming there is no switch in-between, just waiting for a path to ground which could be you.
Again a small point but I am also an electrical engineer with many years of practical experience.
 

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It may be a small point but if a neutral, white wire or whatever you choose to call it, is not connected to ground or the neutral bus, it is electrically connected to the hot lead assuming there is no switch in-between, just waiting for a path to ground which could be you.
Again a small point but I am also an electrical engineer with many years of practical experience.
Well, I will give you this: an unconnected neutral wire (at an outlet) could have voltage on it indirectly if something was plugged in to the circuit and switched on, even if it was dead.

I’m more than willing to accept that I am wrong if you can prove to me how it happens. If you have three wires connecting an outlet to your load center (hot, neutral, and ground) how is it that by disconnecting neutral (open neutral) it suddenly becomes connected to hot? It wasn’t connected to hot before, because if it was it would have tripped a breaker. Where is the path that connects neutral to hot?
 

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Well, I will give you this: an unconnected neutral wire (at an outlet) could have voltage on it indirectly if something was plugged in to the circuit and switched on, even if it was dead.

I’m more than willing to accept that I am wrong if you can prove to me how it happens. If you have three wires connecting an outlet to your load center (hot, neutral, and ground) how is it that by disconnecting neutral (open neutral) it suddenly becomes connected to hot? It wasn’t connected to hot before, because if it was it would have tripped a breaker. Where is the path that connects neutral to hot?
If you're not certain how this works, unwire a neutral at an outlet and measure voltage to ground from the neutral. Or, you if you can't find your meter, just grab onto it.:wink2:
 

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It may be a small point but if a neutral, white wire or whatever you choose to call it, is not connected to ground or the neutral bus, it is electrically connected to the hot lead assuming there is no switch in-between, just waiting for a path to ground which could be you.
Again a small point but I am also an electrical engineer with many years of practical experience.
Pretty much my original point. The voltage comes through the load (PacHy). The EVSE is supposed to protect from various problems but if the connection at the receptacle is intermittent or has some resistance, maybe it can't cover all the many current leakage scenarios various modules in the car could present. Or maybe there is a ground wire on the house wire side but it has some potential on it sometimes. As in somebody replaced the water pipe coming into the house with plastic. There are many possibilities.

I'm a mechanic engineer so if it doesn't leave a puddle, stink, make noise or watery eyes, it's suspect. The PacHy is covered from that standpoint(last being purchase price).

Cheers. Fun debate.
 

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Pretty much my original point. The voltage comes through the load (PacHy). The EVSE is supposed to protect from various problems but if the connection at the receptacle is intermittent or has some resistance, maybe it can't cover all the many current leakage scenarios various modules in the car could present. Or maybe there is a ground wire on the house wire side but it has some potential on it sometimes. As in somebody replaced the water pipe coming into the house with plastic. There are many possibilities.

I'm a mechanic engineer so if it doesn't leave a puddle, stink, make noise or watery eyes, it's suspect. The PacHy is covered from that standpoint(last being purchase price).

Cheers. Fun debate.
I agree with you on this point. But we have to put a so-called ‘dependent clause’ in here:

An open neutral can shock you when you touch it (here comes the dependent clause) *IF* and only if there is a load connected to the circuit that can pass the voltage through.

See my video above which demonstrates that an open neutral on its own does not automatically carry current.
 

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“One thing an open neutral can do is give a shock to anyone grabbing it” is an independent clause.. In this part of the sentence “an open neutral” is the object and is therefore the “it” within this sentence

Also, “Neutral” is the name accepted by IEEE for single phase and 3 phase AC (IEEE C62.92.4-2014)

It doesnt matter if its a poor name in your opinion. Its the name it has.
I didn’t say that my opinion mattered nor did I say that it is wrong to call it ‘neutral’. I’m merely pointing out that the word ‘neutral’ can give the wrong impression to someone who is not familiar with electrical theory. The word ‘neutral’ carries the idea that something is uninvolved. If a war is being fought by two sides and you are claiming neutrality you are not fighting on either side. The neutral/hot nomenclature could convey the idea that only the hot side carries current but, in reality, the neutral side carries just as much current as the hot side. The fact that it is called ‘neutral’ only means anything because it is tied to earth ground. And in a relative sense it is not dangerous because most people who would come in contact with it will also be at earth potential.

And, by the way, ‘open neutral’ is not the object in the sentence above.
 

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I agree with you on this point. But we have to put a so-called ‘dependent clause’ in here:
Its not really “so-called”.. it how the english language works.

An open neutral can shock you when you touch it (here comes the dependent clause) *IF* and only if there is a load connected to the circuit that can pass the voltage through.

See my video above which demonstrates that an open neutral on its own does not automatically carry current.
I don't know if anyone would have thought the Neutral wire alone could shock you?

The context of this discussion is that when the vehicle is Charging on the 120v EVSE, the vehicle gives a person a shock.. which automatically implies the EVSE is plugged in. In which case a bad Neutral or Ground is the most likely explanation IMO.

But hey? Maybe thats just me.

If i was testing this I would avoid being shocked anymore - Its just not healthy.

I would however pull the plug out slightly or release the outlet from the wall and with the vehicle charging, measure the AC voltage for a drop in the socket/hot wire and measure for voltage on Ground and Neutral terminals.

Be careful there isnt two problems ie: both ground and neutral are bad.

If you see any voltage on the ground or neutral terminals then you are witnessing a conventional “voltage divider” type circuit caused by another resistance in the circuit likely a loose contact or physical wire issue.
 

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Its not really “so-called”.. it how the english language works.



I don't know if anyone would have thought the Neutral wire alone could shock you?
Evidently mainsail thinks so. He said, “If you're not certain how this works, unwire a neutral at an outlet and measure voltage to ground from the neutral. Or, you if you can't find your meter, just grab onto it.”

In the video I did exactly what he said and I didn’t get shocked.

In any case we know the body of the vehicle became electrified when the EVSE was plugged into it. We also know that the EVSE passes the ground to the vehicle and the body of the vehicle is connected to that ground when plugged in. So if everything is working as it should it would be impossible for a person to complete a high-voltage circuit between the vehicle body and ground because the vehicle body is at the same potential as ground. The fact that someone got shocked from touching the body of the van means that the vehicle was not grounded because it was at a different potential than ground. This means that somewhere along its path the ground wire (which is connected to the body of the car) is not really grounded.
 
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