100% agreed. Have a feeling Tesla owners aren't the same demographic. Hopefully they improve this when they deliver the Pacifica EV.Here's my info, @M0Par: I'm too lazy to post a photo, but my Average MPG (as shown on the dash) is currently ~85. I have been driving (according to my records and the hybrid page history graph on the radio) for the last 2-3 weeks 99-100% electric-only.
More background: The MPG listed above SHOULD be merely an MPGe calculation according to the EPA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent
So it means I can go 85 miles on 33.7 kWh of electrical energy. This matches the sticker for my van (84 MPGe), but is more than what the van estimates (33 miles on 100% battery which is 16 kWh). (85 miles * 16 kWh / 33.7 kWh = 40.4 miles of range) I can believe that on a full charge I can go 40 miles right now with moderate temperatures, moderate driving, and zero use of heater/AC. That makes sense to me. 84 MPGe sounds pretty good but by comparison, other electric vehicles are much better (Tesla vehicles are 120+ MPGe).
Now my .02: Where Chrysler made it "wrong" is trying to combine ICE/hybrid-mode MPG with electric-only MPGe. They use the same label (MPG) and seem to use a magic conversion (maybe 33.7 kWh = 1 gallon of gas) to combine all into one number: The Hybrid Energy page on the radio shows ICE usage in kWh and the dash efficiency page rating shows everything (including battery) in MPG. This might be convenient, but is misleading and leads people to just view everything as "magic numbers" that don't tell them anything about the efficiency of their vehicle. Unless you carefully drive 100% electric-only like I did for the past 2 weeks, you can't compare your electric-only mode to other vehicles with the current dash and radio info. And unless you drive in 100% ICE/hybrid mode, you can't compare your actual miles per gallon efficiency to other non-plugin vehicles. And the best you can do for calculating your cost per mile (gas and electric combined) is just do an average from one gas tank fill to the next, taking into account gallons, miles, and kWh from all the chargers you used.
I don't really know what would be better, but maybe a cost per mile would be more grounded in reality. Even a rough estimate of local electricity costs and gas prices would be enough to show a nice graph. Maybe the needle/circle graph (like a speedometer or the Energy Economy live chart you have in the photo) could show what you're currently getting, with two sections clearly marked: one for the "normal" ICE/hybrid range of values and one for electric-only. Or maybe just have them be two completely separate metrics with separate charts, stats, etc.
What's Your Average Fuel Economy (HYBRID ONLY)?
41 - 60 of 151 Posts
100% agreed. Have a feeling Tesla owners aren't the same demographic. Hopefully they improve this when they deliver the Pacifica EV.
So,
1200mpg on electric means you didn't buy 40 gallons of gas at $5per gallon.
40g x $5= $200.
(I inflated gas and deflated mpg to 30 so we have numbers skewed in electrics favor)
How many months does the 1200 miles represent?
If it's 2 months, you saved $100 per month.(it can't be 2 months. 30 mile limit x 30 days is 900...but we're skewing toward electric. We know it's 4 months based on reality, 3 months if regen is maxed+)
I haven't the foggiest notion of the electric cost(let's not contaminate the convo with talk of 'free at work').
Someone post their cost per mile for their home electric, then we can carry on.
So far, no home electric factored, it looks like the break even, at a fantastic 1200mpg for 5 years straight, is 5 years. THEN for the NEXT 5 years you save $50 per month.
break even is not a profit. The NEXT time-factor is a 50% return on investment.
(My math is often off by a factor of 10 to encourage others to punch in their own, real, numbers)
1200mpg on electric means you didn't buy 40 gallons of gas at $5per gallon.
40g x $5= $200.
(I inflated gas and deflated mpg to 30 so we have numbers skewed in electrics favor)
How many months does the 1200 miles represent?
If it's 2 months, you saved $100 per month.(it can't be 2 months. 30 mile limit x 30 days is 900...but we're skewing toward electric. We know it's 4 months based on reality, 3 months if regen is maxed+)
I haven't the foggiest notion of the electric cost(let's not contaminate the convo with talk of 'free at work').
Someone post their cost per mile for their home electric, then we can carry on.
So far, no home electric factored, it looks like the break even, at a fantastic 1200mpg for 5 years straight, is 5 years. THEN for the NEXT 5 years you save $50 per month.
break even is not a profit. The NEXT time-factor is a 50% return on investment.
(My math is often off by a factor of 10 to encourage others to punch in their own, real, numbers)
Real world conditions. Yesterday I drove from Philly to Columbus. So I had to drive through some mountainous area and against a slight headwind. I reset the MPG at the start of the trip with 0% on the HV battery so this is true gas mileage. Driving was mostly at 70 mph with a few exceptions.
![Vehicle Speedometer Car Gauge Automotive design]()
That's a good reading.Real word conditions. Yesterday I drove from Philly to Columbus. So I had to drive through some mountainous area and against a slight headwind. I reset the MPG at the start of the trip with 0% on the HV battery so this is true gas mileage. Driving was mostly at 70 mph with a few exceptions.
View attachment 53697
Do you know if resetting the MPG resets this Energy Economy? From what I can tell it's aggregate, although over what timeframe I'm uncertain.
Yes. It is aggregate. However I don’t know how far back it goes. Resetting will apparently erase all historical data and start calculating with new. You can tell because the average number will change rather quickly after resetting it but then as you drive it settles down.That's a good reading.
Do you know if resetting the MPG resets this Energy Economy? From what I can tell it's aggregate, although over what timeframe I'm uncertain.
I'm not sure why you hang around in the hybrid forum, but let's use some real-world numbers.So,
1200mpg on electric means you didn't buy 40 gallons of gas at $5per gallon.
40g x $5= $200.
(I inflated gas and deflated mpg to 30 so we have numbers skewed in electrics favor)
How many months does the 1200 miles represent?
If it's 2 months, you saved $100 per month.(it can't be 2 months. 30 mile limit x 30 days is 900...but we're skewing toward electric. We know it's 4 months based on reality, 3 months if regen is maxed+)
I haven't the foggiest notion of the electric cost(let's not contaminate the convo with talk of 'free at work').
Someone post their cost per mile for their home electric, then we can carry on.
So far, no home electric factored, it looks like the break even, at a fantastic 1200mpg for 5 years straight, is 5 years. THEN for the NEXT 5 years you save $50 per month.
break even is not a profit. The NEXT time-factor is a 50% return on investment.
(My math is often off by a factor of 10 to encourage others to punch in their own, real, numbers)
We drive our Pacifica ~20,000 miles/year. This is heavily weighted towards short trips. We have had a series of other vehicles similar in size/weight/power to a gas Pacifica, and 20mpg average is being generous. 20,000 miles at 20mpg is 1000 gallons of gas. At $4/gallon, that's $4,000/year for fuel.
With the hybrid we get 30mpg on gas. I figure we do about 6,000 miles/year on hybrid/gas. That's 200 gallons or $800/year for fuel.
On electric we use ~400wH/mile. Our electric rate, all in, is .15/kwH. We do about 14,000 miles/year on electric. That's 5,600kwH/year at a cost of $840.
Total fuel costs for 20,000 miles/year with the hybrid is $1,640/year, versus $4,000 for a gas model. We save $2,360/year.
Further, when we purchased our Hybrid, the out the door price was within $2,000 of the gas model, but we received $7,500 in federal tax rebates. After 5 years of ownership I estimate our total savings will be over $15,000, even accounting for variable gas prices. Not to mention the hybrid version is simply better to drive.
Edit - and for something more on topic for this thread. As I said earlier in the thread, our average economy from the on-board computer is ~60MPGe on electric, ~30MPG on gas. With our 70/30 split of electric to gas usage that equates to a weighted average of 51MPG combined. 20,000 miles/year at 51MPG combined is 392 gallons of gasoline (or equivalent). At $4/gallon that's an annual fuel cost of $1,568...within 5% of the number I calculated above.
While everyone has to make their own assessment about use case for a hybrid vehicle, the last sentence is really the unheralded reality. It's such a better driving experience that when we drive the gas model it feels downright primitive.I'm not sure why you hang around in the hybrid forum, but let's use some real-world numbers.
We drive our Pacifica ~20,000 miles/year. This is heavily weighted towards short trips. We have had a series of other vehicles similar in size/weight/power to a gas Pacifica, and 20mpg average is being generous. 20,000 miles at 20mpg is 1000 gallons of gas. At $4/gallon, that's $4,000/year for fuel.
With the hybrid we get 30mpg on gas. I figure we do about 6,000 miles/year on hybrid/gas. That's 200 gallons or $800/year for fuel.
On electric we use ~400wH/mile. Our electric rate, all in, is .15/kwH. We do about 14,000 miles/year on electric. That's 5,600kwH/year at a cost of $840.
Total fuel costs for 20,000 miles/year with the hybrid is $1,640/year, versus $4,000 for a gas model. We save $2,360/year.
Further, when we purchased our Hybrid, the out the door price was within $2,000 of the gas model, but we received $7,500 in federal tax rebates. After 5 years of ownership I estimate our total savings will be over $15,000, even accounting for variable gas prices. Not to mention the hybrid version is simply better to drive.
because the skew is rampant and potential purchasers might want to read something not so
PollyAnna meets full blown purposeful inaccuracy.
Less than 30 miles a day.
Ok
Perfectly sensible. I'd buy one.
20,000 miles a year.
I'm not sure how 30 miles x 30 days being 900 miles, plus regen, figures.
I'm seeing a gallon of gas a day x 30 days, no stow and go and (I think) less hp)
But, I'm not seeing it as already purchased. I'm seeing it as a minimum savings, I'm not interested in a new hobby, scenario.
Average means, basically;
Many. Get. Less.
Do you consider your scenario average or is it extraordinary and shouldn't be expected?
PollyAnna meets full blown purposeful inaccuracy.
Less than 30 miles a day.
Ok
Perfectly sensible. I'd buy one.
20,000 miles a year.
I'm not sure how 30 miles x 30 days being 900 miles, plus regen, figures.
I'm seeing a gallon of gas a day x 30 days, no stow and go and (I think) less hp)
But, I'm not seeing it as already purchased. I'm seeing it as a minimum savings, I'm not interested in a new hobby, scenario.
Average means, basically;
Many. Get. Less.
Do you consider your scenario average or is it extraordinary and shouldn't be expected?
We were driving last weekend with some friends in the car that had never ridden in it before. They were ladies and they were all chatting as ladies like to do. We were all in the car for maybe a couple of hours driving around in town to several places. At the end of the ride one of the ladies said, “I like your van. It runs so smooth.” So even people that aren’t really paying much attention notice how smooth and quiet the PacHy is.While everyone has to make their own assessment about use case for a hybrid vehicle, the last sentence is really the unheralded reality. It's such a better driving experience that when we drive the gas model it feels downright primitive.
They say the same of my 3/4 ton Avalanche....At the end of the ride one of the ladies said, “I like your v(vehicle). It runs so smooth....
polite appreciation
Vs
provable quantity.
It's not a thing.
But I assume that when you accelerate you feel the transmission shifting through the gears and hear the fatigue of the engine…They say the same of my 3/4 ton avalanche.
I'm getting fatigued just talking about it.But I assume that when you accelerate you feel the transmission shifting through the gears and hear the fatigue of the engine…
Yes.
You can feel the 500hp.
It isn't a
Seat of the pants nice lady feeling.
But
It is the exact same comment.
I don't think a random lady's singular statement represents a GROUP experiencing the exact same things.
The other ladies DID NOT comment.
This says the bulk of the riders had no input as their ride was not uncommon enough to comment on.
One of many is anomoly territory.
She might drive and is comparing a Bradley tank for all we know.
She will say it about every vehicle that rides better than a Bradley.
Or/and
Polite praise does not a factual statement make.
You can feel the 500hp.
It isn't a
Seat of the pants nice lady feeling.
But
It is the exact same comment.
I don't think a random lady's singular statement represents a GROUP experiencing the exact same things.
The other ladies DID NOT comment.
This says the bulk of the riders had no input as their ride was not uncommon enough to comment on.
One of many is anomoly territory.
She might drive and is comparing a Bradley tank for all we know.
She will say it about every vehicle that rides better than a Bradley.
Or/and
Polite praise does not a factual statement make.
Well, I wasn’t saying it as a fact. In fact, the feeling of “smooth” is somewhat subjective I suppose. But regardless of that I know what she is talking about and what she means because I drive the van all the time.Polite praise does not a factual statement make.
Well, I wasn’t staying it as a fact. In fact, the feeling of “smooth” is somewhat subjective I suppose. But regardless of that I know what she is talking about and what she means because I drive the van all the time.
When asked why I seek real truths, not esoterics from electric folks;
This scenario is why.
A tainted view based on slightness and that post-purchase view wanting to manifest as superiority.
It's not a bad thing.
Not even close to a bad thing.
But
It is sure nothing to base a purchase on.
People who haven't yet purchased read these posts.
They need to know real, not realities perceived in a way to justify prior purchase.
Miles vs cost seems to be beyond ability because, we're now deep into this thread, and it can't be found as a standard.
Butt feel is asked to be accepted as real.
Gages are asked to be ignored.
Hills are asked to be excused.
Rebates, that used buyers won't get are asked as an offset.
Eventual battery replacement? Like breathing on Mars,...
Do you have any facts to contribute to this conversation or are you content just trolling?When asked why I seek real truths, not esoterics from electric folks;
This scenario is why.
A tainted view based on slightness and that post purchase view wanting to manifest as superiority.
It's not a bad thing.
Not even close to a bad thing.
But
It is sure nothing to base a purchase on.
People who haven't yet purchased read these posts.
They need to know real, not realities perceived in a way to justify prior purchase.
Miles vs cost seems to be beyond ability because, we're now deep into this thread, and it can't be found as a standard.
Butt feel is asked to be accepted as real.
Gages are asked to be ignored.
Hills are asked to be excused.
Rebates, that used buyers won't get are asked as an offset.
Eventual battery replacement? Like breathing on Mars,...
Do you mean that it takes into account the energy gained from regen?I'm pretty sure that, even if you don't charge it, it doesn't handle regen correctly either, so if you have any significant hills it won't be correct anyway.
trolling accusation.
Tantamount to grammar correcting.
Tantamount to grammar correcting.
Be careful not to confuse individual misinterpretation of the standards with lack of implemented standards. There's no doubt the hybrid is far more energy efficient. It's just a matter of individual cost-benefit analysis which is highly subjective, even if the data isn't.When asked why I seek real truths, not esoterics from electric folks;
This scenario is why.
A tainted view based on slightness and that post purchase view wanting to manifest as superiority.
It's not a bad thing.
Not even close to a bad thing.
But
It is sure nothing to base a purchase on.
People who haven't yet purchased read these posts.
They need to know real, not realities perceived in a way to justify prior purchase.
Miles vs cost seems to be beyond ability because, we're now deep into this thread, and it can't be found as a standard.
Butt feel is asked to be accepted as real.
Gages are asked to be ignored.
Hills are asked to be excused.
Rebates, that used buyers won't get are asked as an offset.
Eventual battery replacement? Like breathing on Mars,...
That aside difference between the 9 speed transmission and Pacifica Hybrid transmission called the Si-EVT, can't be over-stated. It is a fully electronically controlled, variable speed transmission that includes two internal electric motors, two lubrication pumps (one mechanical and one electric), an electronic park lock actuator, an auxiliary electronics cooler, an electronic shifter and an electric-only reverse gear. It has a front-wheel-drive electronically-variable transaxle gearbox (i.e.,SI-EVT). It has a myriad of internal and external electronic controllers and a two-motor system running on a three-phase alternating current (AC). The frequency of which determines the motors’ speed, thus controlling torque output. The transmission provides quick and smooth acceleration and is one of the smoothest "CVTs" on the market.
Cvt is fine.
I've had them.
I've had a powerglide and it was nice too.
No problem. Cvt is nice, I'd have one without qualms.
Cvt is not a contributor to cost vs miles not being produced in this thread as a standard.
Mileage is the question, not ride.
The individual misrepresentations, and even the misrepresenters recognizing ANY standard are why I ask;
How much per mile does it cost to drive your electric?
The screen shot of the dash is just too much proof?
I've had them.
I've had a powerglide and it was nice too.
No problem. Cvt is nice, I'd have one without qualms.
Cvt is not a contributor to cost vs miles not being produced in this thread as a standard.
Mileage is the question, not ride.
The individual misrepresentations, and even the misrepresenters recognizing ANY standard are why I ask;
How much per mile does it cost to drive your electric?
The screen shot of the dash is just too much proof?
41 - 60 of 151 Posts
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