What's Your Average Fuel Economy (HYBRID ONLY)?

3645 Views 152 Replies 22 Participants Last post by lacompas, 16 h ago

M0Par

Discussion Starter · 27 d ago (Edited)

Vehicle Gauge Speedometer Measuring instrument Font

I think average fuel economy is limited to 99 based on the artificial ceiling set by Chrysler. Also not sure if it can be reset or resets with the trip odometer.
And yes I need to clean my instrument panel.

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M0Par

Discussion Starter · #121 · 18 d ago

Ducksface said:
I have the sincerest of doubts that Chrysler roadside service can routinely bring you a gallon of electric, or would if they could.

Also less sincere, but still heartfelt, doubts that 1:100,000 folks run out of fuel within reasonable reach and safety of an electric outlet.

I'll have to retract my wrongly determined
Battery spare fuel Advantage
And
I have to totally discredit the
Roadside electric grasp at a grasp.

Wouldn't be roadside. It would be routine stops other than fuel. Everywhere now becomes an opportunity to refuel even if only adding 32 miles or less. When doing family visits that exhaust the electric range will refill before the drive back. A 100 mile trip on gas previously, now becomes a 60/40 electric/gas trip.

This would be more the rule not the exception such as a roadside need. Can't recall the last roadside need for fuel. Exceptions mainly provide psychological benefits.

Ducksface

· #122 · 18 d ago (Edited)

no one asks me to donate gas from my ranch tank when they visit. They know it's there and available.

Is it an electric vehicle cultural thing to ask to plug in when visiting?
Do you harvest pantry items also?
Or
Did I misread?

I'll admit it would be nice to snag a free gallon of gas(restricted to a gallon maximum as you are) wherever I stop.

Is it worth the premium paid other than braggadociousness and hobby?

Truly.
What percent of what you use it for now could sway you away?

5% of less enthusiasm/reality?
10%?

I'm ready to commit to:
1 350mile range plus a 100 mile gas reserve.
2 Awd
3 Stow and go.
4 Cars charge at 20% of regional commercial electric fees, with no govt subsidy.

Beta testers will allow us to get there.
Thanks.

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M0Par

Discussion Starter · #123 · 18 d ago

Ducksface said:
How deep is your love?

Ducksface

· #124 · 18 d ago

I thought the reference might not be known, so I redacted it.

Thanks for the video.

M0Par

Discussion Starter · #125 · 18 d ago

Ducksface said:
I thought the reference might not be known, so I redacted it.

Thanks for the video.

Missed the BeeGees reference.

Broskuski

· #126 · 18 d ago

Speedometer Trip computer Car Vehicle Odometer

This is from a 5 day trip from Western Massachusetts through various places in the Finger Lakes in New York last summer. Started with a full charge and full tank. Was not able to charge 2 days, the other 3 days full charge at the hotel each night. One gas fillup during the trip. I’m happy with the mileage I got, especially compared to the Kia Sedona I owned before this. Oh, AC full blast the whole time, and I am not a hypermiler

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stop-eject

· #127 · 18 d ago

Ducksface said:
no one asks me to donate gas from my ranch tank when they visit. They know it's there and available.

Is it an electric vehicle cultural thing to ask to plug in when visiting?
Do you harvest pantry items also?
Or
Did I misread?

PacHy takes only $1-2 worth of electricity, not a bid deal to charge while visiting. I did it at several friends and relatives and they continue to invite us, so I figure they are not outraged at my behavior

Ducksface said:
I'll admit it would be nice to snag a free gallon of gas(restricted to a gallon maximum as you are) wherever I stop.

Is it worth the premium paid other than braggadociousness and hobby?

Premium paid? My Pinnacle was well under 40k after discounts and the tax rebate. I don't understand why people pay a premium for vans with the finicky and inefficient engine start-stop system. By the way, the Hybrid subsystem is warrantied to 10y/ 150k miles (in some states).

Ducksface said:
Truly.
What percent of what you use it for now could sway you away?

5% of less enthusiasm/reality?
10%?

???

Ducksface said:
I'm ready to commit to:
1 350mile range plus a 100 mile gas reserve.
2 Awd
3 Stow and go.
4 Cars charge at 20% of regional commercial electric fees, with no govt subsidy.

Beta testers will allow us to get there.
Thanks.

1. You would rarely benefit from the range above the daily commute. 50-80 EV miles would be enough.
2. Many people don't need it, some do.
3. Would be nice, but the battery needs to go somewhere.
4. Plan to charge at home, the public infrastructure is weak.

Beta testers? PacHy is architecturally the same as Toyota Prius from 25 years ago. This is a well established technology.

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lutorm

· #128 · 17 d ago

M0Par said:
Consumption is consumption. Why would it keep track of where the energy came from? It doesn't do that when you fill up with gas. MPG doesn't care when you add gas. It could be 2 miles after the last fill up or 200 miles. MPG is just that. It's not a total conservation metric. It's a total consumption metric.

You can't add gas in the tank except by filling ut up, so the distinction doesn't exist for gasoline, any gasoline used came from the pump, but MPGe should reflect how much energy the vehicle has consumed. The fact that some energy goes from battery to potential energy and then back into the battery again does not change the consumption of the vehicle, and that's the definition of MPGe.

What if a vehicle has a KERS-type rotating flywheel to store energy. Should using the flywheel energy count as using gas, even though you already used gas to spin up the flywheel?

lutorm

· #129 · 17 d ago

I re-checked the display going downhill the other day. At 65mph, regening 25kW, the instanteous MPGe displayed was 84, I think. At 35kW, 65 MPGe. I might be misremembering, though, I should have shot a picture.

M0Par

Discussion Starter · #130 · 17 d ago

lutorm said:
You can't add gas in the tank except by filling ut up, so the distinction doesn't exist for gasoline, any gasoline used came from the pump, but MPGe should reflect how much energy the vehicle has consumed. The fact that some energy goes from battery to potential energy and then back into the battery again does not change the consumption of the vehicle, and that's the definition of MPGe.

What if a vehicle has a KERS-type rotating flywheel to store energy. Should using the flywheel energy count as using gas, even though you already used gas to spin up the flywheel?

That would be quite the feat if it could distinguish the electrons as different from regen than from any other source. Maybe Chrysler has that kind of sorcery.

lutorm

· #131 · 17 d ago

M0Par said:
That would be quite the feat if it could distinguish the electrons as different from regen than from any other source. Maybe Chrysler has that kind of sorcery.

Of course it can -- it knows exactly how much power it puts into the battery from regen, it even shows it on the display. It just needs to keep track of and make intelligent use of those data (which, as I said initially, is not trivial but then again neither is writing any of the other software needed to run a plugin hybrid vehicle...)

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JimLuck

· #132 · 15 d ago

I got 34.7 mpg on the hybrid portion of a recent trip from Waltham, MA to Ludlow, VT (3 hours each way, mix of secondary roads and highways).

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JimLuck

· #133 · 15 d ago

M0Par said:
View attachment 53668

I think average fuel economy is limited to 99 based on the artificial ceiling set by Chrysler. Also not sure if it can be reset or resets with the trip odometer.
And yes I need to clean my instrument panel.

That's not hybrid MPG. That's MPG with most of the energy coming from the electric grid. Let's answer the question in terms of MPG when no energy is coming from the grid. Wait until the battery is empty and then press and hold the OK button until MPG goes to zero. Then drive and record MPG without drawing on the grid.

M0Par

Discussion Starter · #134 · 15 d ago

JimLuck said:
That's not hybrid MPG. That's MPG with most of the energy coming from the electric grid. Let's answer the question in terms of MPG when no energy is coming from the grid. Wait until the battery is empty and then press and hold the OK button until MPG goes to zero. Then drive and record MPG without drawing on the grid.

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/what-is-mpge/

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JimLuck

· #135 · 15 d ago

MPGe is irrelevant to the question. The question asks for MPG (hybrid only). It does not ask for MPGe. It does not ask for MPG mixing in some electric-only mode. It does not ask for MPG mixed with MPKWH (miles per kilowatt hour). MPGe is an attempt to put electricity-from-the-grid consumption into gallons-of-gasoline terms. It's for plug-in mode. "Only" means excluding all else. In the category of all else, would be any use of energy from the grid.

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M0Par

Discussion Starter · #136 · 5 d ago

Solution4U said:
On gas only, I get right around 30mpg. Overall miles per gallon of gas I usually reset each fillup. That should be calculated by total miles driven divided by # of gallons burned. I usually get at least 1000 miles per tank which is about 72ish MPG, but I have gotten as much as 2200 miles in one tank of gas.

You're right, that the best way to calculate MPG is straight fuel/over distance. Since Chrysler combines gas MPG with the electric MPG, it is relatively easy to separate the gas MPG by using the trip odometer and documenting mileage and fuel consumption per fill up.

I did 83 highway miles and based purely on the gas gauge it showed I used exactly 1/8th of a tank, resulting in an average of 40MPG for gas only. The problem with trying to calculate an MPG for electric only is that while the EVSE can provide a rough amount of kWh we don't how much of that is set aside for reserve.

JimLuck

· #137 · 5 d ago

If the car is being powered by a combination of energy from the grid and energy from gasoline, it is meaningless to divide miles driven by gasoline consumed. It would be like figuring the Celtics' points per game by dividing total points scored by all teams in the NBA by the number of games the Celtics played.

Ducksface

· #138 · 5 d ago

7 pages, no calculation formula agreed on.

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PacDave

· #139 · 4 d ago

JimLuck said:
If the car is being powered by a combination of energy from the grid and energy from gasoline, it is meaningless to divide miles driven by gasoline consumed. It would be like figuring the Celtics' points per game by dividing total points scored by all teams in the NBA by the number of games the Celtics played.

As long as you have exhausted the HV battery then the van is being powered only by energy from gasoline regardless of whether the gas engine is running at any point in time. Once its charge is depleted all energy is being supplied by the ICE. So at that point you can calculate mpg by simply dividing miles driven by gallons used. Even if the ICE stops running and the electric motor is motivating the vehicle, that energy came from the ICE.

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M0Par

Discussion Starter · #140 · 4 d ago

PacDave said:
As long as you have exhausted the HV battery then the van is being powered only by energy from gasoline regardless of whether the gas engine is running at any point in time. Once its charge is depleted all energy is being supplied by the ICE. So at that point you can calculate mpg by simply dividing miles driven by gallons used. Even if the ICE stops running and the electric motor is motivating the vehicle, that energy came from the ICE.

Yes. And the odometer tracks both so very easy to calculate gas MPG. It's the exact same as the regular Pacifica.

I should borrow the gas Pacifica from my in-laws and see what I get for a trip vs the PacHy. Would be interesting to see what each vehicle gets for the same trip using gas as the baseline.

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