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I'm looking to buy a PacHy and noticing that they basically don't exist new unless you find a strange 2018 out there with likely a destroyed battery. Meanwhile, nobody wants to order a new one. I've heard excuses like that they're on strike, some supplier issue, they're changing the factory over from 2019 to 2020, you name it. I had one dealer explain to me that they make $82 per sale, there's no rebates or incentives, and they used to be compliance cars but they no longer have to sell these things to accomplish that. I've called corporate asking what's up and so far nobody's getting back to me if they even still sell these things to regular people.

So, I'm looking at used. Dear lord, are these things complete disasters? It seems like the majority of what's out there are fruity buybacks. I'm looking at the overall sales numbers, comparing with how many I'm seeing right now, and it's a daunting percentage. What the heck is going on?
 

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Dealers lie.

It's possible but improbable that 2018s have destroyed batteries. The 12v might be an issue if it sat on the lot for a long time unmaintained.

What do you mean nobody wants to order a new one. No dealer you mean? Have you tried? What is their exact response?
 

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I had a dealer tell me that they've been bad about ever charging them, so they sit at 0 miles of plug in range and then self-discharge down into cell damage. Maybe it's the truth, maybe it's a miscommunication and they really meant the lead acid battery even though I specifically pressed them. In any case, the seem disinterested in moving their non-Limiteds.

As far as ordering, my wife and I have talked to several three dealers and each time it's been some tale for why they're unavailable or that an order now won't be fulfilled until sometime next year. One dealer was adamant that they're on strike and there was nothing that could be done about it.
 

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sounds like a lot of b/s to me . FCA makes money on them , not as much as they do on a ice model , it’s just the tale ratio on ice vs electric is very lopsided . The used ones here on Ontario ( is basically the price of a new one ) . Factory ordering shouldn’t be a problem , the problem is from uneducated salespeople whom k ow nothing about the vehicle . Good luck
 

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I spoke with four dealers in two states and not a single one told me I couldn’t order.
 

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I'm looking to buy a PacHy and noticing that they basically don't exist new unless you find a strange 2018 out there with likely a destroyed battery. Meanwhile, nobody wants to order a new one. I've heard excuses like that they're on strike, some supplier issue, they're changing the factory over from 2019 to 2020, you name it. I had one dealer explain to me that they make $82 per sale, there's no rebates or incentives, and they used to be compliance cars but they no longer have to sell these things to accomplish that. I've called corporate asking what's up and so far nobody's getting back to me if they even still sell these things to regular people.

So, I'm looking at used. Dear lord, are these things complete disasters? It seems like the majority of what's out there are fruity buybacks. I'm looking at the overall sales numbers, comparing with how many I'm seeing right now, and it's a daunting percentage. What the heck is going on?

I had a dealer tell me that they've been bad about ever charging them, so they sit at 0 miles of plug in range and then self-discharge down into cell damage. Maybe it's the truth, maybe it's a miscommunication and they really meant the lead acid battery even though I specifically pressed them. In any case, the seem disinterested in moving their non-Limiteds.

As far as ordering, my wife and I have talked to several three dealers and each time it's been some tale for why they're unavailable or that an order now won't be fulfilled until sometime next year. One dealer was adamant that they're on strike and there was nothing that could be done about it.
I'm skeptical. +1 on the BS.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I checked the listings and didn't see a single one with a buyback title.
Henkel's in Michigan has 9 on the lot. All Buybacks. They're not explicitly disclosed but if you call and ask you're told otherwise. There's a dealer in Phoenix with a handful of them, they're all at least listed as Buybacks. A red one popped up in Virginia yesterday and I called in it. It's a Buyback.

If it's low mileage then so far every one that I've called on is in fact a Buyback. Henkel's said that in Michigan they're not required to brand the title for a Buyback and the can still it as clean used, but I should he check with you secretary of state in Florida because my state might be like that too.
 

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I'm skeptical. +1 on the BS.
Try actually ordering one and that's when the excuses show up, "oh you know there's at least a 4 month wait on these..." They flat out do not want to get involved in a transaction on one of these. I'm sure they're not allowed to explicitly refuse to sell it because of their contract, but actually sit down with them in their office and the story changes hard. Maybe they used to as evidenced by the existence of 2018s, but if you want one then you have to fight them to get them to take your money.

For a related anecdote, the last time we went to go a buy car I was looking at a new 2017 Ford Focus Electric. They had just updated it to have a 125, up from I think 80-something. Also added DC charging.

The Focus body is fairly wide and I'm able to get all three kids in the back seat. It's not ideal but as the other vehicle in the house it's usable when we need to use that instead of the T&C.

Anyway, we go to Parks Ford in Wesley Chapel to talk about ordering one and we're going through the process of looking at what options there are when the general manager approaches. He tells us that he cannot in good conscience sell us the car because the depreciation is so bad on them, but he would be willing to lease us one.

We walked, tried to find a FFE anywhere close and found that no dealer in Florida had one. We instead wound up getting a barely used 7 month old C-Max Energi that according to the energy used readout had literally never ever been plugged in. Lifetime consumption when I got it was under a single kWh. Observed battery capacity was occasionally 5.8 back then, spec says 5.7 kWh. Must have been a manager's car at a dealership, why else would anybody get one with every option and then dump it?
 

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Dealers lie. The lease only thing is a scam, they would get any federal/state tax credits/rebates and probably not pass the full savings back to you. .
 

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Discussion Starter #11
No state incentives in Florida, but there's always the Fed $7500 on those things. The fact remains that they knew I knew that, in fact their lease even had the option of allowing them to take the rebate and lower the payment or the buyer gets it directly.

The fact remains that I'm the case of the PacHy or FFE "I want to give you money" is something they're either balking at or refusing. Meanwhile over in Used PacHyLand there are more Buybacks than clean used and new, combined. I haven't called on each and every last one of them but there's absolutely no way the number is under a third of the market being Buybacks.

What nobody is answering is my original title question, why are there so many fruit-designated PacHys out there?
 

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No one has received a 2020 yet. In past years, the new models were available for order in early summer and showed up around Oct/Nov. This year some people are hearing that there's a delay this year.

I have a 2017 and even during the first model year, the dealers wanted to sell the ICE version over the hybrid. I asked the local dealer to place an order for me and paid a deposit, then the car didn't get built for about 5 months, got caught in the recall where no shipments were sent out, and I finally got the car almost 9 months after placing my order. What I found when I got the car (and the sticker) is that the dealer ordered it as a "spec" car... they didn't let the factory know that they had a buyer waiting... people whose dealers ordered in the buyer's name received their cars within a much shorter window, but spec orders are given lower priority. While I was waiting, my dealer tried several times to convince me to cancel my order and take one of the gassers on their lot.

I think the main reason dealers don't want to order is that their margin is lower on the hybrids, but they also need to have special training to service the hybrids. Maybe they just don't want to bother. However, after 2 years and 35000 miles on mine, I don't think there's anything wrong with these cars... I'd get another if anything happens to my current Pacifica.
 

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I ordered mine on 9/13. According to Chrysler corporate, it is scheduled to be built. I’m expecting production this week, but suppose there could be some delay. At this point, I’m calling in every couple of days to check progress. Once it’s built, I’ll relax as it seems to take up to a month for a built car to get shipped to the dealer. I’m hoping the fact that I’m 4.5 hours away from the factory in Windsor goes some way toward reducing the shipping time...
 

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No one has received a 2020 yet. In past years, the new models were available for order in early summer and showed up around Oct/Nov. This year some people are hearing that there's a delay this year.

I have a 2017 and even during the first model year, the dealers wanted to sell the ICE version over the hybrid. I asked the local dealer to place an order for me and paid a deposit, then the car didn't get built for about 5 months, got caught in the recall where no shipments were sent out, and I finally got the car almost 9 months after placing my order. What I found when I got the car (and the sticker) is that the dealer ordered it as a "spec" car... they didn't let the factory know that they had a buyer waiting... people whose dealers ordered in the buyer's name received their cars within a much shorter window, but spec orders are given lower priority. While I was waiting, my dealer tried several times to convince me to cancel my order and take one of the gassers on their lot.

I think the main reason dealers don't want to order is that their margin is lower on the hybrids, but they also need to have special training to service the hybrids. Maybe they just don't want to bother. However, after 2 years and 35000 miles on mine, I don't think there's anything wrong with these cars... I'd get another if anything happens to my current Pacifica.
I also have a 2017 with 34k miles. We would also get another if something happened, but we are also not in a hurry to trade out a van that runs great and cost us $45k. The 2020's don't have enough changes to convince me to upgrade. We would really only change for additional range.

Why arent used ones on dealer lots? It's not like these are $25K vans that people trade every 2 years. No major changes since they came out. The people that got 17's and early production 18's were early adopters and enthusiasts. Typically those aren't people trading often and spontaneously. This forum and a lot of it's users predate ordering and production of this van by quite some time.

I wonder if the 18 buybacks are clustered on a few dealer lots. I used to work form a Ram dealer (Dodge at the time) that specialized in buybacks. Buybacks does not always mean junk. One time we had 25 perfect ram 1500's that were buybacks because the front bumpers rusted. There had been a tropical storm at the port and salt spray ruined the chrome on hundreds of trucks. It wasn't discovered until they hit dealer lots. Chrysler bought them all from the dealers and what few owners had ordered them, put new bumpers on them, and sold them to their buyback specialist dealers. We sold the crap out of those trucks.

This dealer, for instance, specializes in buybacks. https://www.bonhamchrysler.com/buybacks-vs-reaquired

Buyback doesn't mean junk, but it's great to ask questions about them.
 

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Keep in mind that the used market is weird for vehicles that have a $7,500 tax credit. For a late model with reasonable miles, the new price vs used price shouldn’t be too different. I looked at a 2018 that I was told had been a Chrysler corporate car. In the end, it made more sense to buy a new one over the $34,000 price for a used one.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
It's not just a narrow gap, I've seen dealers advertising used cars for above MSRP minus the fed rebate. There's one hopeful soul out there trying to sell one used for $49500.
 

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I've been planning to get the Hybrid since around April of this year. There were excellent deals in June-July with plenty of inventory (San Jose Bay Area in N California) with pricing around $41K for Limited version before Fed and CA rebates. Should have pulled the trigger but timing wasn't right with the current vehicles we had on lease in the household. Been trying to get one for the past 2-3 months but there is no inventory. They sold all 2019s and no 2020's have come in at all. Inventory search shows 1 2019 hybrid within 151 miles. And yes I did plan to order the 2020 and got the same BS and lack of interest on facilitating an order. I no longer get any response from the manager (definitely not pestering him since its only a total of 3-4 emails over several months ) in regards to inquiry about when 2020 may come. I believe that they had a hard time getting rid of the 2018s (still had some on lots as late as September) and 2019s were slow moving until recently. I read about a planned plant shut down that was reversed and they still planned to make the Pacifica at that location, but obviously we are not seeing any on dealer lots yet (at least in my area). Really need a minivan and want a hybrid, but there are few alternatives out there besides the Pacifica.
 
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