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With the new Odyssey struggling to keep pace with the ancient Sienna, would anyone be surprised that Odyssey will have some major changes / feature additions / updates in next model year. If a newly redesigned model is struggling against its older competition, there is something seriously wrong. The Sienna is supposed to be redesigned next year too..... isn't it?
 

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Some of the problem with the Odyssey is Honda's pricing. MSRP is similar to the Sienna and Pacifica, but Honda is not offering much in the way of factory incentives. They still believe they are "the best" and discounting is not necessary. This could be their wake-up year.
 

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From what I understand, they need to pull up their quality control as well. Honda has one of the best engines in industry but is let down by poor workmanship from the factory. Also some design issues need to be addressed ..... and it needs to be prettier too.... :D.
 

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Which brings up a point that I haven't tried as yet... Everywhere we go I have to open the tailgate/hatch door to retrieve my wife's walker. I wonder if I push the lock button on her front door after I help her out of the vehicle and then go back and push the close button on the hatch, will the vehicle be locked?
(Late reply I know...)
Yes. I like that I can press the driver door exterior button to lock, then get my daughter out through the already open sliding door. Once the sliding door us closed, the car is locked as far as I can tell.
 

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My wife and I have been shopping minivans for over a year and have not purchased yet. We keep on coming back to the Pacifica every time because of the styling, stow and go seats, cargo carrying capacity with seats stowed in the van at final destination, and technolology. The infotainment system is one of the best in the Pacifica. We too bike, but have a Thule carrier that is hitch mounted, so the tow package will be something on our need list (always prefer the factory hitch vs aftermarket). We currently own a 2011 Dodge Durango with the 3.6 liter engine, similar to the Pacifica, and have 111,000 trouble free miles on that power plant. We winter in our home in Florida and summer in our home in Wisconsin, so cargo carrying ability is important. Our Durango has about 1/2 to cargo capacity as the Pacifica. We still need the Durango for towing our boat in the Midwest, but the Pacifica is high on our list of purchases for later in 2018 as our future long distance road vehicle.
 

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We're about a month into the 2018 Pacifica - and the answer is yes, would definitely do it again. We came from a Honda Ody (2015) and while I looked at the new 2018, we didn't drive one as ultimately the numbers were not going to work until Honda/dealers started to move on pricing. I did have a good look round the 2018 Ody and while it does seem nicer than the outgoing model, the Pacifica beats it on trim/finish. By all accounts the infotainment is also much better in the Pacifica (although Honda has closed the gap off the ridiculous 2015 version).

One thing that did initially cause consternation was the Pacifica 2nd row. We've got three kids and the youngest is in a forward facing five-point seat still. In the Ody, the ability to slide the seats outward makes more room for a big car seat to fit on the center 2nd row. Due to the stow'n'go, you can't do this on the Pacifica and it meant a switch of the car seat to a narrower one to maintain outboard seat folding.

Overall the Pacifica is well thought out and the technology is fantasic. Now it's down to reliability and while some have had problems, it seems that the majority don't have serious issues!

John.
 

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If you had it to do over, would you still buy the Pacifica?
Questions like that bring a lot of opinions tied to experiences. And there are bigger data. These data below made clear to me what van I wanted in 2017. Unsurprisingly they led me to certain cars all my adult life starting at 18 through my aged life at 55 now (mainly CR). In those years I've needed four cars, and they were driven pretty hard. They took me very often to my ski resort customers in the Sierra. Those passes are high, and I was often in a hurry with very changeable road conditions especially in winter. I knew the story of the Donner Party, and cell phones didn't exist back then (and spare tires did); I needed something ultra-reliable.

It's no secret that I bought a 2017 Sienna 'L'. It's the 'stripped' model with a lot standard. Below is a list of all its luxurious amenities.* And it doesn't have power sliding rear doors, the bane of minivans from seemingly all manufacturers.

If you knew the brick & mortar me, you'd know I don't brag, and if there's an opportunity for me to help someone I take it. I don't know you, and I care about your future. You can't really brag about a Sienna anyway; it's based on an older design (and yes I know, tried-and-true is a bad thing nowadays); it doesn't have separate screens in back for the kiddies, and kids need screens, I'd give tablets (Android ones with the memory card slots that can hold an entire music collection plus many movies, etc.) to the little ones if I was a parent since they can exit very hot or freezing interiors; and the Chrysler is more attractive and drives a bit better, it knocked "the ultimate swagger wagon" description from Sienna reviews.

Four lists based on consumer data:

1. Consumer Reports reliability rankings from consumer surveys:

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/car-brands-reliability-how-they-stack-up/



2. The Lemon List: (Toyota produces a lemon once every 11.65M vehicles. The weight of that skewed the average by a lot, and is only a quarter of the next highest brand.)

Toyota Tops, Fiat Flops in AutoGuide?s 1st Annual Lemon List » AutoGuide.com News



3. Long Term Quality Index (LTQI), 4. Maintenance/Repair Indexed Costs from CR:

http://www.dashboard-light.com/





It may seem weird that a random guy on the internet cares about you, and he does. This is a discussion I started about The Lemon List (I have the same handle over at AT. Cars have fascinated me since about 1964.)
--------------------------------------------------------
*aluminum wheels, backup camera, touch screen, steering wheel controls, bluetooth/usb, tri-zone auto climate with rear control, trip computer/mileage statistics, programmable lighting/convenience features, dash security light (but no alarm, shhh:)), cruise, etc. People pay upwards of $50K for higher models, but only get power doors (which have proven unreliable)/seats, leather (which I don't like), and sunroofs, as well as some small niceties like seat heaters ($21K for that stuff?), which I don't need in so. Calif. I'm an ancient guy who is frugal (remember that word? Understated is my middle name. Edit: My Sienna is gray, er, I mean it's "predawn gray mica.")
 

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And did you purposefully forget to add this report from Consumer reports?
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/car-brands-ranked-by-owner-satisfaction/

No, but I tend to discount owner satisfaction rankings of new cars (especially the for profit, advertising JD Power crap). It's interesting that in CR, Teslas are highest in satisfaction and among the lowest in reliability. "Down the road" concerns take a backseat to whiz-bang features and "first on my block" stuff. Teslas are buttonless. I guess once you start using a tablet, eyes on the road are a low priority.

I love the Internet; for every opinion or data there is dissent. I get the need. I'm only trying to help.

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/tesla-model-iii-preorders-have-started.2468598/page-14#post-39148934

"Yes, I meant my comment to be only about the Tesla. It's hopefully just growing pains.

As a "green" person, I applaud Tesla owners' benevolence toward the environment, and its styling is certainly more attractive than, say, the Nissan Leaf, but it doesn't seem logical to discount other owners' reliability experiences in favor of having the latest, most stylish thing.

My needs are different, but even if they made an all electric minivan, I don't know if I could get over "range anxiety."

There's also the matter of Tesla's driver distraction factor. With so many commonly used controls only available on its giant touch screen, one must take their eyes off the road too much IMO. My car has a touch screen, but there are also physical knobs and buttons on the dash for climate control, sound, and a few other things that allow me to keep looking straight ahead.

"We found the [touch screen] system overall is quick and easy to use, but the potential for distraction is very real. The only physical controls in the cockpit—meaning those not in the touch-screen—are the shifter, turn signals, wiper, and hazard lights. Without physical buttons to feel for, you need to look away from the road to target the screen when wanting to make adjustments. And some functions require going two or three menu pages deep into the system."


https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/05/driving-the-tesla-model-s-is-like-using-an-ipad-thanks-to-leading-edge-interior/index.htm

You can't even turn on the lights without using the touch screen (although automatic lights mitigate this particular issue).

Edit: I just read an article about the Model III's steering wheel controls (CR didn't mention any on the Model S.) On the model III there are just two steering wheel buttons for navigating the touch screen. Most modern cars have more, like mine with dedicated up-down, left-right, enter, and "mode" for the computer, as well as phone answer-hang up, and full audio controls on the steering wheel despite being the most basic, cheapest model with zero options.

The article mentions Musk's desire for a "button-free" driving experience. It's slick looking, but unwise IMO.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/motoring/tesla-model-3-does-future-driving-mean-button-free-dashboard/

Response:

I agree you with. The push to fully touch screen cars makes zero sense to me. This is especially true for items that a driver has to control, such as lights, wipers, etc. I played around on a model S at a Tesla store, and I hated the touch screen interface. That alone would keep be from buying the car. But I guarantee that the addition of more and more touch screens in all cars will lead to more distraction accidents, **** a lot of people can't handle answering a flip phone without crashing.



Edit: fixed links
 

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Brand ratings aside, the Chrysler Pacifica specifically gets both average or better reliability scores, plus excellent owner satisfaction scores.
 

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bradly1101, I can't take your data seriously because you chose to include the tainted "Lemon List", which is based on nothing else but the Internet forums complaints.
 

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Why are you even here Bradly, by your posting, the crappy, unsafe, sludge plagued, unintended acceleration killing, yester-tech Sienna you just bought will last you till your grave. You're done shopping.
 

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Brand ratings aside, the Chrysler Pacifica specifically gets both average or better reliability scores, plus excellent owner satisfaction scores.
Yes, satisfaction scores are interesting. JD Power sent me one right after I got my Sienna. I was promised to be entered into a $50K giveaway if I filled it out online. And I did anyway. It had broad questions about my satisfaction and a few more detailed ones. I asked myself why this data was important, after all I wouldn't have bought the car if I wasn't pretty sure I'd be satisfied with it. Where does this data go? Of course manufacturers use it in advertising and pay for it, so there's a profit motive.

As to CR's sat. survey (without the profit motive) all I can say is that back in the sixties when I first started reading CR I never saw this kind of survey in it, and I know that they are following a trend. The data is a good measure of post-purchase happiness, and again the results are what I'd expect from new anything buyers. Confirming your own wisdom to someone asking for it is the ultimate confirmation of intelligent purchasing. Awesome features like on the Pacifica are appreciated. It's the only minivan (and Chrysler of course offered them before) that has second row Stow&Go seats, a boon to cargo haulers, but as mentioned in every review I've seen are the least comfortable second row of all the vans; compromises had to be made. I also saw in the CR review that the front passenger seat can be uncomfortable on long trips. As far as seats in Toyota vans, they take the cheap way; all four front seats in both my Previa and now the Sienna are identical and equally comfortable, and not so easily hidden/removed. A trade-off.

The OP of this thread asked a broad question about the preferred minivan in a forum geared to the owners of one brand with lovers and haters of Pacificas responding. Happiness of a ~$40K purchase may be prejudiced toward, "If I bought it, it is of course a good car." Feature-wise it's the winner hands down. And you all are aware of the many threads here about strange things happening to Pacificas after a few days ownership, sometimes less. When I read stuff like that it falls in line with what I know about Chryslers, Dodges, Jeeps, and Fiats, and I wonder why people still want one after knowing all that.

There is a Sienna forum, and I've never read a comment like that there, and there is much less activity in the Trouble sub-forum than here, much, much less. Despite being made in Indiana, Siennas are seen as foreign cars, combine that with its staid features, older "non-exciting design," and its inability to turn heads I can see why it's not considered much. That's cool; to each his own. But I can't keep my mouth shut if a thread like this gets started; I have too much experience with reliable cars.

And I realize that reliability is not much of a concern to many, when a new model comes out it's hard to see your old car in the same light as you used to, and new models come out all the time so a failing this or that doesn't matter much since the car will be traded in soon anyway.

I'm a cheap-skate and keep cars until I assume they'd be dead, none have died on me yet even getting close to 350K miles with little needed service. When Toyota went back to timing chains from belts I knew they got it, there are small advantages to belts, and one big disadvantage, requiring periodic, expensive maintenance. As a money maker for the brand belts are great, and Toyota knew if they went back to chains, owners would be even more satisfied. Hmmm. Less money for them and happier customers, so probably more money for them in the long run. Logic is easy.

As I said, technology fascinates me, so of course would the Pacifica. As with a lot of tech, it's supposed to do its job without whimper or trouble, lest a new car buyer hates it because the "auxiliary battery heater" is failing in their inaugural week with the car. Tech done poorly is well...

If that owner reports that to JD Power, do they do anything with it? I have doubts. And on the Internet everything you say that might disagree with another will get picked apart, and that's a good thing. The more defensive the response, the more that is won by the other side. I am defenseless. I can only share my experience, and often on the web that means my experience is wrong. That's cool, it seemingly can only benefit me. I'm an oddball. A square peg in an ever more round hole. And I talk too much. Here's an example of other toes I've stepped on (in my tech forum of mixed Apple/other owners) with my experience (off topic, but with a bit of relevance to tech blindness):

Just some technical observations from an old techy nerd. If I step on toes, I apologize, that’s not my intention, and I can be blunt.

My dearly deceased partner [surprise heart attack, long story-told in album description] had an IMac when I met him, an incredibly expensive piece of crap. He didn’t know, Macs are the best. Everyone knew it.

It had a common defect that Apple refused to do a recall on. Hundreds of multi-colored lines were on the screen. It was usable, barely. It happened just after the warranty expired to him and many other people. The quoted repair would have been more than a new one. I get the game; make things virtually impossible to be fixed or upgraded by the consumer so they'd be dependent on a very aggressive pricing structure. And they'll keep coming back. From my point of view, Apple made crappy hardware, and often wouldn’t back it up. Do that to my sweetie? Expect some pushback. Others swear by the stuff. I found instructions on the web to replace the screen (from intrepid users, of course not Apple) and the repair was not only very difficult, a new screen was 80% as much as a whole new IMac, of course), but it was impractical.

When I moved in with a PC, it was all moot. I built my own; there were no worries about fixes and upgrades. The fixes were never needed (but could easily be accomplished at home), and I never needed to upgrade a unit since they were precisely customized from the start with my exact needs in mind plus experiential headroom, something you can only fuzzily aim at in the Apple world with limited models to choose from.

Building a customized PC is actually quite easy (a Youtube video is all you need these days). I had to build a server on my job in ‘91 with no experience. “Put this in this slot” was basically all it was plus some screws and wires with keyed terminations. Easy. No rocket science degree needed.

Run out of hard drive space in an IMac? Get a whole new IMac! The new “Tiger” version of the OS bork your Photoshop installation, and re-installation doesn’t fix it? (I’ve heard similar complaints in computer forums ad nauseum about all Macs, not just the “I” variety.) A new Mac will take your troubles away! (for a while, “Sierra” is about to be released - pretty names for sometimes nightmares, but OS upgrades should be a breeze, shouldn't they? I can't wait to see what's new.) The inevitable slow-downs of more advanced software and intentional, programmed lagginess got you down? Make a trip to the Apple Store! They have just the slick, new, enticing thing! I could go on.

I always knew about Apple’s almost forced way of making people replace pretty, newish, very expensive hardware. The most repeated comment I've heard from IPhone users with pricey, just year old phones is, "Time for a new phone, this one is slowing down." They know people don't learn. Cha-ching!

Staying on phones, of course they all have limited software/data space when off the cloud. An IPhone with greater memory is only a few hundred greenbacks away, and then what do you do? Oh yeah, next year’s phone isn’t that far away. Not to brag, and my $50, three-year-old Android phone has a slot to add 128GB of more space. The memory cards are less than $50. The phone is as fast as day-one despite the OS updates. Imagine.

Apple is a closed space with only really one company in development. Not true of the PC world where also a lot of really great software is completely free, without ads. Many developers just want to share their ingenuity in a magnanimous way. I do my music writing on one such software. Imagine, truly free, amazing stuff. (I know this can be seen in the Apple world on a much more infrequent basis.)

In my opinion, after much observation from my nerdy eyes and brain, Apple makes slick, easy to use (initially), hardware and software that can suck, big time, and is apparently addictive. Heads banging into walls is no way to usher in advancement (again, in my opinion). PC’s are just as easy, as are Android phones, but they have less perceived prestige. I get the need.

I’m not out to change minds, denying another’s belief is never wanted, and Apple frustrations are totally avoidable and the alternative more frugal (remember that word?).

My two worthless cents.
 

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I don’t make my purchasing decisions based on problems posted on forums. I look at more objective data, like reliability surveys for the model I’m interested in (not the brand).

Forums are useful to get an idea of the types of problems people are having. They’re not useful for determining problem frequency.

To help others, I contribute my Pacifica’s reliability data to TrueDelta and CR.
 

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Brand ratings aside, the Chrysler Pacifica specifically gets both average or better reliability scores, plus excellent owner satisfaction scores.
And the Pacifica has buttons for almost all driver functions, unlike the Tesla.
 

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We looked at many vehicles, despite coming from a previous 06 T&C/98 Caravan. Parents have an 04 Odyssey and Friends have a 16 Sienna/09 Sienna. I have this weird habit of getting into and sitting in the furthest back seat during test drives. It gives me the impression of your lowest ranking passenger. The Sienna is similar to the Pacifica in much of its feel, but lacks in the middle row seat handling and engine performance. It’s also a bit more pricey overall. The odyssey has more cludges that just don’t seem to be so well thought out. The performance is better though. The price differential kills it when you start looking at positive/negative lists. If the third row isn’t so important to you, I’d suggest a Dodge Journey or the Kia Serrano. Yes, I left the Toyota Highlander out... the price is just nuts and I’m seeing an awful lot of them on used car lots, which begs questioning.

What I didn’t initially like about the Pacifica was the forced “alloy” color in carpets/kickpanels for 90% of the interior options. I deal with this by using mud mats, but I have given strong consideration to just ordering the factory parts to replace. However, it’s the wife’s vehicle and she is happy...so. The new shifter knob also concerned me, but again she took to it like a fish to water and I was relieved to read the emergency bypass procedure. There is much to like here and it just felt right.
 

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The Pacifica was the only minivan I could stomach paying money for because of the looks and tech and because the government was paying me 14k+ to buy one. The Sienna is really ugly both inside and out. The Odyssey is marginally better. I've never bought a domestic before so not a Mopar fanboy. If there was no hybrid I probably wouldn't have bought one.
 

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We looked at many vehicles, despite coming from a previous 06 T&C/98 Caravan. Parents have an 04 Odyssey and Friends have a 16 Sienna/09 Sienna. I have this weird habit of getting into and sitting in the furthest back seat during test drives. It gives me the impression of your lowest ranking passenger. The Sienna is similar to the Pacifica in much of its feel, but lacks in the middle row seat handling and engine performance. It’s also a bit more pricey overall. The odyssey has more cludges that just don’t seem to be so well thought out. The performance is better though. The price differential kills it when you start looking at positive/negative lists. If the third row isn’t so important to you, I’d suggest a Dodge Journey or the Kia Serrano. Yes, I left the Toyota Highlander out... the price is just nuts and I’m seeing an awful lot of them on used car lots, which begs questioning.

What I didn’t initially like about the Pacifica was the forced “alloy” color in carpets/kickpanels for 90% of the interior options. I deal with this by using mud mats, but I have given strong consideration to just ordering the factory parts to replace. However, it’s the wife’s vehicle and she is happy...so. The new shifter knob also concerned me, but again she took to it like a fish to water and I was relieved to read the emergency bypass procedure. There is much to like here and it just felt right.
Gas Pacifica is faster than the Ody.
The alloy color looks nice, but I agree, it is a risky choice for a family vehicle. You can find or order black or mocha interiors, they come with black paneling.
 
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