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** 2021 PACIFICA AWD - IS THE AWD REALLY NEEDED IN THE PACIFICA? **

31K views 71 replies 31 participants last post by  whitepapagold  
#1 ·
Just wanting to get some feedback here. I have been in the auto business for 19 Years and I remember the Town & Country AWD.
It was short lived. There is a debate among me and my coworkers, Is the Pacifica good enough in the snow the way it is?
Is there much interest in the AWD and why?

What are some of your thoughts? Thanks for all positive feedback.




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#46 ·
Just wanting to get some feedback here. I have been in the auto business for 19 Years and I remember the Town & Country AWD.
It was short lived. There is a debate among me and my coworkers, Is the Pacifica good enough in the snow the way it is?
Is there much interest in the AWD and why?

What are some of your thoughts? Thanks for all positive feedback.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only Cover Your Chrysler Pacifica With A Factory Backed Chrysler Extended Warranty.
Buy Direct And Save Chrysler Factory Warranty - Your #1 Source for Extended Coverage for Chrysler Vehicles
Our 2017 Pacifica gas engine was a pig on ice with the tires that came from the factory. We immediately installed BF good rich radial Long Trail I think and then it did quite a bit better. My 98 town and country that had all wheel drive was crazy good in the snow. I plan to trade my 17 model soon for an all-wheel-drive.
 
#47 ·
Just wanting to get some feedback here. I have been in the auto business for 19 Years and I remember the Town & Country AWD.
It was short lived. There is a debate among me and my coworkers, Is the Pacifica good enough in the snow the way it is?
Is there much interest in the AWD and why?

What are some of your thoughts? Thanks for all positive feedback.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only Cover Your Chrysler Pacifica With A Factory Backed Chrysler Extended Warranty.
Buy Direct And Save Chrysler Factory Warranty - Your #1 Source for Extended Coverage for Chrysler Vehicles
My 2017 Pacifica is terrible in the snow, Absolutely terrible. My next Pacifica will definitely have awd.
 
#48 ·
I've had almost every version of Chrysler minivans from the original Caravan to the Pacifica.
Being a fly fisherman and living in Michigan a needed to travel some hilly, sandy two-tracks and soon learned the only way to go uphill in those two-tracks was backwards! That got the vehicle weight over the front drive wheels and gave me the traction needed.
I had two Jeep GC’s before the Pacifica and got spoiled with their 4WD. In the Pacifica a spot I was in meant going over a simple rise of wet grass and it was embarrassing the way it slipped and slid.
After inventing the minivan when I worked at Warren Truck where they built full-sized vans via the suggestion box, complete with sketches. I thought it time that during the gas crunch of the time Dodge built a small van with good gas mileage. They did and whoever emptied the suggestion box probably took credit.
After that and getting a Caravan I always thought the next phase should be a 4WD, off-road ready minivan built to take on the same terrain the Off-Road Ready 4WD Jeeps could.
No builder I know of makes one as of yet so maybe Chrysler could set the pace once again by doing so. The new AWD Pacifica is a step in the right direction but a beefier Pacifica with the proper suspension and grippy tires would fill a niche that is totally open.
To answer your question, AWD seems perfect if you travel in area’s with snow, mud or hills and would alleviate some of the frustration just FWD can bring on.
 
#49 ·
I have a 2019 Pacifica Hybrid that I got last year -- terrific car in just about every way, but I do spin the front wheels if I take off too quickly, even on a dry road. I suspect it's the tires (Yokohama AVID S34 is what they say), but I'm not driving very much these days (work at home) so it just doesn't matter right now.

However, my previous car was the 1999 Town and Country Limited AWD (yep, it lasted nearly 20 years and I replaced it after it stranded me a couple of times during my commute with fuel pump problems). I ordered that car and the dealer said they'd never seen one before in Texas, but I live on top of a steep hill (yes, we have those here in Austin) and have been through enough marginal weather and full-blown ice storms to want AWD so I can get down the hill in an emergency. It was great -- I'd be at an intersection during a drizzle or light rain, and the car or pickup truck next to me would spin its wheels and fishtail when the light changed. The T&C AWD just smoothly accelerated without a hitch.

Anyway, only the gas-powered Pacificas are getting AWD, so I don't have to think about trading up. I'd be tempted if they offered a hybrid with motors on the rear wheels.
 
#50 · (Edited)
AWD makes many people feel safer, including those living in areas with no snow. Chrysler can't force or otherwise convince the masses to buy FWD over AWD, so many purchase a Toyota van to obtain AWD. If you go to northern Canada and Alaska you will see many competent drivers piloting rear wheel drive and front wheel drive vehicles around on snowy roads without a care in the world. For them, AWD and 4WD is totally unnecessary and wasteful for most street use. Front wheel drive vans do not accelerate quite as well on snow or ice as a FWD car, but they are far better than RWD. This is because vans a greater percentage of weight in the rear and less on the nose compared to a car. Car weigh distribution is roughly 60F/40R while passenger vans are much closer to 50/50. The finished rear cargo area, 6' roofline, windows and rear seats are not light compared to smaller car with modest windows and a 50lb trunk lid. It is best to have more weight over the driven wheels. A set of Blizzaks would make a FWD van accelerate almost like it has AWD in the snow, but they would wear out real quick, and dry braking and handling would be subpar.
 
#52 · (Edited)
AWD makes many people feel safer, including those living in areas with no snow. Chrysler can't force or otherwise convince the masses to buy FWD over AWD, so many purchase a Toyota van to obtain AWD. If you go to northern Canada and Alaska you will see many competent drivers piloting rear wheel drive and front wheel drive vehicles around on snowy roads without a care in the world. For them, AWD and 4WD is totally unnecessary and wasteful for most street use.
You'd actually be surprised. The take rate for AWD on the Sienna is not that high. AWD in a minivan has definitely been a niche thing, thats why Chrysler had abandoned it and Honda has decided not to explore it despite the Odyssey being on the same platform and having the same powertrain as the Pilot. It will be interesting to see how many Pacificas are AWD.

Bear in mind you're talking to someone who drives a RWD car himself in the winter. As for plenty of people piloting around FWD and RWD vehicles in the snow without a care in the world in northern Canada and Alaska, thats true...but that doesnt change the fact that AWD would make the cars they are driving better. Those drivers are also typically using winter tires and not making do on all seasons like people in more mild/variable climates are, and they have far, far more experience driving cars in winter weather. Having had the same car I have now thats RWD in AWD and driving both in winter conditions. The RWD does better than older ones I've had, but its no replacement for AWD. The AWD car was just better.

Front wheel drive vans do not accelerate quite as well on snow or ice as a FWD car, but they are far better than RWD.
Depends on the traction and skid control aids in the RWD car. MY FWD van does not accelerate as well in the snow as MY RWD car. Thats purely a function of the technology in the RWD car though which has dramatically improved its snow performance over older versions of the same car I've had in RWD. Absent any traction or driving aids I would agree a FWD van will accelerate better from a stop than a RWD car.

Car weigh distribution is roughly 60F/40R while passenger vans are much closer to 50/50.
Pacifica weight distribution is 55/45.

I am a performance driving instructor, ex-SCCA driver and have 45+ years experience driving FWD, RWD, AWD and 4WD in the snow of Pennsylvania. I strongly disagree with virtually everything in your post. AWD provides greatest benefit for average drivers in snow or icy conditions when driving up hill or accelerating hard (in a straight line). Driven wheels are seldom under power when the "typical driver" is struggling to turn in slippery snow or wet conditions. If tires are sliding in a corner, they are braking late or entered too fast and overcooked it. They will not be on the throttle under that scenario. Drivers are generally coasting or on the brakes in corners, and gently feathering the throttle when exiting the turn. Corner slip understeer UNDER THROTTLE is reduced with AWD as you say, but I see that as a driving error. Don't accelerate so hard to cause slip lol. Dynamic traction limitations in a corner can ALWAYS be managed by reducing throttle application, unless you are churning up a steep hill while turning. Momentum will get a vehicle with proper velocity thru a sharp corner. Average drivers with AWD don't apply hard throttle at the apex to improve cornering under slippery conditions. AWD and 4WD will encourage a car in a turn to go in a straight line under heavier throttle. AWD/4WD is indeed great for 4 wheel drifting. This allows the advanced driver to use a throttle-induced elevated rear slip rate to repoint the nose, but this technique is illegal for public roads can sometimes puts cars into guide rail or upside down.
Even when not applying throttle a FWD car with a more nose heavy weight distribution is more prone to understeer in the first place in the scenarios I outlined in my post. You're looking at this through the lens of a professional driver, the vast majority of drivers are not professional drivers. Its about what makes a common driver safest in the snow, and the propensity for a FWD car to lose traction when entering a turn too quickly in slick conditions vs a RWD or AWD car that is more evenly balanced is absolutely a fact. The real negative for RWD vehicles is their propensity for oversteer which is hard for an inexperienced driver to correct for, that issue has been largely negated by standard yaw control systems in cars. Skid control is less effective at combating understeer than it is overseer. You also have the added problem as you mentioned of losing the ability to steer when accelerating up an incline, etc. Of course its driver error. but nearly every cause of a collision in those sorts of driving conditions is going to be driver error. Its about what platform is the most forgiving of driver error and the easiest for someone ...and thats AWD.

I'm not saying a FWD car can't be driven safely in the snow, of course it can. Millions and millions of them are, they are just dynamic limitations people don't realize.

The low ground clearance on Pacifica limits it's deep snow potential with AWD.
The AWD Pacifica does have 1 inch higher ground clearance, but again its not about deep snow. I had both an AWD Lexus sedan and a 4WD Jeep Grand Cherokee at the same time. In snow less than 5-6 inches, I preferred to drive the AWD Lexus despite the Jeep having much more ground clearance. Of course in deeper snow the Jeep was much better. Just because a Pacifica can't plow through a foot of snow like a Jeep doesnt mean the AWD doesn't have value. Its pretty rare you encounter a public road with a foot of snow on it, even during a heavy snowstorm because the roads are tamped down, plowed periodically etc to keep the snow depth down. For most people, an AWD car or van will serve them very well in winter weather despite not having more than 6 inches of ground clearance.

AWD will make the Pacifica more satisfying and safer to drive in a variety of conditions, and increase the van's utility a ton. Take off from a stop on a rainy day with anything but the lightest of throttle in both a FWD and an AWD Pacifica...you're going to want the AWD.
 
#55 ·
This has all been very good feedback. I am sure I will make good use of the information that everyone has shared here.
I hope others have been able to take something away from this also.

Stay Positive! :)




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#57 · (Edited)
Not sure where I'm blaming drivers for anything, but okay. Expecting people to make good decisions and to use tools properly is not "blaming" them. No tool that is not defective causes an accident. Misuse of the tool causes the accident.

I just totally and completely disagree. I want the best tool, and its up to me to use it safely. A safe driver can certainly drive an AWD vehicle safely the snow. I've been doing so for many years. If you don't feel you can trust yourself to drive a vehicle safely understanding that the dynamics of stopping and turning are not enhanced by AWD, then you shouldn't be driving any vehicle in icy and snowy conditions.

I see no logic in wanting a vehicle that has a hard time getting moving in the snow because one that doesnt might lull me into a false sense of security. Its up to the driver to make an accurate assessment of the road conditions and adjust their driving accordingly. By your logic we shouldn't have any technology that helps a vehicle drive more securely in the snow because it might "hide the road conditions from us". Should we not buy cars with better headlights? They might cause us to drive faster at night. Should we look for cars with the slowest and worse windshield wipers because that way we wont want to drive so fast in the rain? Makes no sense.
 
#58 · (Edited)
“Accurate assessment”???? You can’t gauge or otherwise “accurately assess” traction limits without some amount of slip, and neither can I. Do you want to first experience slip when bearing down on a stopped car in front of you? You do, I don’t. That is the sticking point. AWD is not safer for the average driver because it reduces feel and sensitivity under slippery conditions. Drivers wreck when they fail to sense poor traction. Ok, let’s blame them. Newsflash, people including Indy drivers are not perfect. Drivers who do not sense loss of traction may occasionallly go too fast and wreck in snow with AWD or 4WD. To be clear, I was not recommending a vehicle for you, nothing personal. Neither of us are typical drivers. My opinion on this point is obviously not budging. Wheel spin in snow or ice is a useful measure of traction limit for all drivers including me. Feedback during acceleration helps a driver set proper speed before a stop or turn, which avoids front end collisions. Nobody can gauge the traction limit without wheel spin, not even you. Limited traction during acceleration may be annoying or slow you down; limited traction on turning or braking can cause a wreck. The annoyance of FWD wheel spin is safer and less risky. If you do not want wheelspin, get AWD and hope traction issues don’t sneak up on you upon braking or cornering. It’s real simple. Bye
 
#59 · (Edited)
I just don't agree with that. I think all of these technologies make vehicles safer in general, if I were choosing a Pacifica right now today, I would absolutely get the AWD model for that reason, bearing in mind that its my wife primarily who will be driving it.

I have a little more faith in people's abilities to make informed choices than you do. I am perfectly capable of looking at a snow covered road and knowing that I need to slow down to aid in turning and stopping whether or not my car confidently accelerated from a stop or not, and so are most drivers. If a driver isn't, then they shouldn't be driving any car in those conditions. You can make the same argument against skid and traction control, and I don't think it carries any weight there either.

And again, its not just about snow driving. As an example, I was driving the Pacifica today, it had been raining and the roads were damp. I came up to a 4 way stop, and the car on my left did not immediately yield me my right of way. So you do that little stop, hitch, who's going to go thing, and finally, I went. Well, you guessed it the quicker than normal throttle response coupled with the FWD and the Pacifica's weight meant my front wheels spun out and I just sat there for a second. In an AWD Pacifica, that wouldn't have happened. Is that a safety thing? It could have been...adding to that the story I posted earlier about not being able to get up the steep gravel driveway of the cabin we rented in the FWD Pacifica when I would have been able to in an AWD Pacifica. There are many reasons why AWD is a superior powertrain layout to FWD, to just ignore all of that because AWD confidence may cause you to become overconfident when you are in control of whether or not you let that happen to you is just silly, IMO. Just choose not to become overconfident.

Nobody ever said "I really wish I had less traction in that situation".
 
#61 ·
I would say this is definitely still on track and on topic for this thread, which is do you need AWD in the Pacifica, does AWD make the Pacifica better?
 
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#66 ·
Steep gravel driveway? You should've turned around and BACKED up; Presto! Rear-wheel drive!
I ran into the same thing on a steep windy (that's "wine-d", not "win-d" gravel road in the Virginia mountains.
After two tries to negotiate a particularly steep turn just resulted in wheel spin, I turned around and backed up the bad section without the slightest bit of trouble.
 
#67 ·
I did. Didn't work. A RWD vehicle wouldn't have been able to get up this driveway either, you needed 4WD, and that was accurately disclosed by the owners when we rented it. We even tried by getting a run at it and having momentum, no go.

But to the point, do you want to have to turn around and back up sections of road, or would you just like an AWD Pacifica that can handle any road without having to worry about it? Thats the great thing about AWD, its just always there and the vehicle is much more capable with little to no drawbacks for everyday use.

I've owned lots of cars, AWD, 4WD with transfer cases, RWD, FWD, there is just no reason not to get AWD if its available. Makes the car better.
 
#69 ·
I don't think you ever really "need" it, unless you are going to be doing some serious poor weather driving or off-road use, you can get by well without it. But, I think in a vehicle like the Pacifica it makes it much more capable and secure, which is a big plus for a family vehicle such as this.

I've spent years with and without AWD vehicles in the family, and we've done fine without them (currently we have a RWD and a FWD vehicle), but they have a lot of big plusses.

I think you will find in the future more and more vehicles are just AWD.
 
#70 ·
Just wanting to get some feedback here. I have been in the auto business for 19 Years and I remember the Town & Country AWD.
It was short lived. There is a debate among me and my coworkers, Is the Pacifica good enough in the snow the way it is?
Is there much interest in the AWD and why?

What are some of your thoughts? Thanks for all positive feedback.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only Cover Your Chrysler Pacifica With A Factory Backed Chrysler Extended Warranty.
Buy Direct And Save Chrysler Factory Warranty - Your #1 Source for Extended Coverage for Chrysler Vehicles
Well, I am interested in AWD because we get a lot of ice where we live.