[Waldo]

I have 25K miles on my 2017 Pacifica. I really like the car in general. Comfort, folding seats, stable road feel, power are all great. I'm 6'5" so I fit the Pacifica much better than by old 1994 Dodge Caravan. That is important as I get older and stiffer.
My main gripe is the transmission. Occasionally it jerks between reverse and drive, and the 2 second delay is producing emergency power is a heart stopper in traffic situations.
But my main complaint is always having to kick it down to maintain speed when driving up a grade. I live in rolling foothills and if I lift the throttle for even a moment it up-shifts, then I have to kick it down to maintain speed. Very annoying!
I wish there was a button labeled performance/economy to engage in hilly driving.
The other annoyance is the Low range. It is of limited value going down a grade. My choice is select Low and over-rev the engine, or ride the brakes alot going downhill. The 94 Dodge with 4 speed overdrive transmission performed much better than this Pacifica.
Last year it had a software upgrade that improved the transmission performance from Marginal to Fair.
But I still have thoughts of selling it because of the transmission quirks.

Before you switch to a lesser van, take a 2019 (or 2020 when they arrive) out for a test on those same rolling hills. ZF has made a few changes since yours was built. But I agree, it would be nice to have a paddle shift mode to hold it in a chosen gear for those rolling hills. My old Odyssey (6-speed) had some sort of "hill smart" thing where it recognized that you were on a hill, and it reduced the tendency to shift. Nice feature (are you listening, Chrysler?).

 

[kayfab3]

No major complaints about the transmission, here on slightly hilly MD roads.

 

[TomB985]

. It is of limited value going down a grade. My choice is select Low and over-rev the engine, or ride the brakes alot going downhill.

I just wanted to point out that it shouldn’t be possible to over-rev the engine. The entire thing is computer controlled, and it will always upshift before the engine hits redline. I’ve never heard of somebody over-revving a modern engine with the factory tune, I don’t believe it is possible unless there is a serious glitch in the factory programming.

You were really going above 6,500 RPMs?

 

[Lipster]

By the term "over rev" I think he means dropping more gears than are really necessary, reving the engine more than needed to slow down.
I agree with him in that "low" drops more gears than I want, with the engine screaming.
Overkill.

 

[Van Go]

What is necessary? Using a low enough gear to run the engine fast enough so its internal friction can slow the car.

Automatic transmissions are built to move cars forward with as little input from the engine as possible, So gearing is high and shifting can be quick, to let the engine stay in an efficient place- that's why no many people never see 9th gear. Engines today are built to produce as little resistance as possible, so you're going to see higher RPMs before you see enough resistance to act as a brake. So if you want to use the transmission to make the engine's internal friction slow the van, today we're long past just dropping it down a gear or two on a downhill. Back when all you had was a 4 speed transmission, dropping it down one gear for a hill meant going into 3rd. 3rd is a lot farther down than it used to be, that's all.

 

[TomB985]

What is necessary? Using a low enough gear to run the engine fast enough so its internal friction can slow the car.

Automatic transmissions are built to move cars forward with as little input from the engine as possible, So gearing is high and shifting can be quick, to let the engine stay in an efficient place- that's why no many people never see 9th gear. Engines today are built to produce as little resistance as possible, so you're going to see higher RPMs before you see enough resistance to act as a brake. So if you want to use the transmission to make the engine's internal friction slow the van, today we're long past just dropping it down a gear or two on a downhill. Back when all you had was a 4 speed transmission, dropping it down one gear for a hill meant going into 3rd. 3rd is a lot farther down than it used to be, that's all.

There’s more to it in this case, I was never satisfied with the programming and how my car operated in low gear down hills.

When he first shift into low, the transmission drops down several gears, but the engine doesn’t cut fuel right away. You can see this reflected on the fuel economy display as well as how the car operates. After 4-5 seconds of no throttle input, the MPG meter goes to 99, and the engine abruptly cuts fuel causing the engine braking that we were expecting from the beginning. My 2017 behaved this way very consistently, almost as if the PCM expected some other function of low gear for the first few seconds before it cut fuel and performed its intended function.

 

[Van Go]

Got to love it. You'd think with all the whiz-bang features for gas mileage, cutting into DFCO would happen a lot sooner.

 

[rluck9277]

My 2017 Touring-L with 54,000 miles at times has a horrible 4-5 shift. Sometimes it is normal but sometimes it can be very harsh and rough. It is very frustrating, the van is otherwise amazing. Rides and drives great, looks great, has great features and amenities. How engineers and ZF could build and use a transmission with such issues is crazy. It also blows my mind how they call it a 9-speed. In reality it never sees 9th gear unless you drive 100mph. Where can you do that? This transmission is the only thing on this van that I hate. I have taken it to the dealer a couple times for the way it shifts but I keep getting the same thing others get. But in no world is a shift that shakes and shudders the entire vehicle normal. I am going to take it back in and have their transmission guy ride with me until I can get it to do one of the harsh shifts.

 

[Shadow5501]

There’s more to it in this case, I was never satisfied with the programming and how my car operated in low gear down hills.

When he first shift into low, the transmission drops down several gears, but the engine doesn’t cut fuel right away. You can see this reflected on the fuel economy display as well as how the car operates. After 4-5 seconds of no throttle input, the MPG meter goes to 99, and the engine abruptly cuts fuel causing the engine braking that we were expecting from the beginning. My 2017 behaved this way very consistently, almost as if the PCM expected some other function of low gear for the first few seconds before it cut fuel and performed its intended function.

I expect what you are seeing with the “instant” mpg display is an artifact of the software algorithm used to calculate the display number and not an indication of how DFCO operates. There is no such thing as instant fuel economy, it must be calculated over a period of time so the van can move and consume fuel. Likely Chrysler is using a sliding window where they measure the fuel economy in something like 1 second intervals and average the last 5 intervals to compute the display number. Each second the oldest 1 second interval is discarded and the newest added. It would explain the behaviors you are seeing. Regardless whether I have reverse engineered the algorithm accurately, I would not assume that the display number directly represent the engine operation, it is most certainly filtered through some software between you and the throttle pedal.

 

[TomB985]

I expect what you are seeing with the “instant” mpg display is an artifact of the software algorithm used to calculate the display number and not an indication of how DFCO operates. There is no such thing as instant fuel economy, it must be calculated over a period of time so the van can move and consume fuel. Likely Chrysler is using a sliding window where they measure the fuel economy in something like 1 second intervals and average the last 5 intervals to compute the display number. Each second the oldest 1 second interval is discarded and the newest added. It would explain the behaviors you are seeing. Regardless whether I have reverse engineered the algorithm accurately, I would not assume that the display number directly represent the engine operation, it is most certainly filtered through some software between you and the throttle pedal.

I don't disagree with any of that, but that is not affecting the concept I'm talking about.

The transmission will downshift, engine rpm's screams skyhigh without much engine braking. Then, like a switch, the engine starts holding the van back out of nowhere, and the instant mpg goes to 99. It is an abrupt fuel cutoff that everybody in the van can feel. The likes of which normally happens during the downshift in most other cars. I have to use the brake to hold the van at a speed down a certain hill before that point, after that fuel cutoff the engine braking is sufficient with the RPMs holding constant.

 

[ChryslerCares]

My 2017 Touring-L with 54,000 miles at times has a horrible 4-5 shift. Sometimes it is normal but sometimes it can be very harsh and rough. It is very frustrating, the van is otherwise amazing. Rides and drives great, looks great, has great features and amenities. How engineers and ZF could build and use a transmission with such issues is crazy. It also blows my mind how they call it a 9-speed. In reality it never sees 9th gear unless you drive 100mph. Where can you do that? This transmission is the only thing on this van that I hate. I have taken it to the dealer a couple times for the way it shifts but I keep getting the same thing others get. But in no world is a shift that shakes and shudders the entire vehicle normal. I am going to take it back in and have their transmission guy ride with me until I can get it to do one of the harsh shifts.

Hello rluck9277,

Please keep us updated on your dealer visit. If we can be of any assistance, send us a direct message. We'd be glad to help.

Lamar
Chrysler Social Care Specialist

 

[SWPacLim]

Bottom line is the shift feel of this transmission is just not very good. Its not a unique issue with Chrysler or the Pacifica, if you look at complaints from all the vehicles that use this transmission its the same thing, shift feel is not good. In the Odyssey, drive a lower EX or EX-L trim with this same 9 speed, and then drive a Touring or Elite with the 10 speed. Its night and day, I would only consider a Touring or Elite trim Odyssey for the different transmission alone.

 

[Waldo]

Bottom line is the shift feel of this transmission is just not very good. Its not a unique issue with Chrysler or the Pacifica, if you look at complaints from all the vehicles that use this transmission its the same thing, shift feel is not good. In the Odyssey, drive a lower EX or EX-L trim with this same 9 speed, and then drive a Touring or Elite with the 10 speed. Its night and day, I would only consider a Touring or Elite trim Odyssey for the different transmission alone.

I don't know how your specific transmission shifts, but we cannot take your (and others) experience to be representative of all owners. It's almost impossible for me to perceive the shifts in mine during normal driving. The feel is different because it is a different design. It is not a GM unit, nor the recent Chrysler 6-speed; it will not feel like one of those. For me, I drive it like it's a minivan. I don't expect I would like it in a sportier car.

It was engineered to maximize fuel economy, and it's been quite successful at that. The software in the early examples needed improvement, but that's been solved. If you're still getting clunks, lean hard on Chrysler and your dealer.

As to Honda, they had an even bigger task with the software. Their V-6 engines have Variable Cylinder Management, which means under light loads two or three cylinders cut-off. That really confused the transmission, and I don't think they've got it sorted yet. I think Honda will abandon the ZF 9-speed in the near future.

 

[KiddyKatPerson]

Every now and then they gather all the parts and put them together and all the parts were good ones. Since September 2018 when I took delivery of my van, the only item to act up was passenger folding mirror. Guess it "self corrected." As for the transmission, mine shifts so smooth that the only way you can tell is the tachometer drops a little. Mine is purrrrrfect.

 

[PacificaLimited]

(FWIW): Count me in as another owner/driver who cannot even notice the gear changes. Extremely smooth from my perspective.

 

[TomB985]

I never had transmission issues either, it was easily one of the best shifting transmissions I have driven.

 

[SWPacLim]

I don't know how your specific transmission shifts, but we cannot take your (and others) experience to be representative of all owners. It's almost impossible for me to perceive the shifts in mine during normal driving. The feel is different because it is a different design. It is not a GM unit, nor the recent Chrysler 6-speed; it will not feel like one of those. For me, I drive it like it's a minivan. I don't expect I would like it in a sportier car.

It was engineered to maximize fuel economy, and it's been quite successful at that. The software in the early examples needed improvement, but that's been solved. If you're still getting clunks, lean hard on Chrysler and your dealer.

As to Honda, they had an even bigger task with the software. Their V-6 engines have Variable Cylinder Management, which means under light loads two or three cylinders cut-off. That really confused the transmission, and I don't think they've got it sorted yet. I think Honda will abandon the ZF 9-speed in the near future.

Read reviews of the Pacifica, many reviews mention this "issue". Like you said its not an "issue" its just inherent to how the transmission shifts, but its something people need to understand. If it works for you great, but it is an unusual shift feel which is well documented with this transmission in this application and other applications. My wife doesnt notice it either, but if you drive in any kind of a hurried way, you will notice it.

Seeing that I drive the Pacifica infrequently, when I get into it...the trans shifts like **** because I'm not accustomed to it. I won't buy another vehicle with this ZF 9 speed. Its not that it "clunks" the shift logic and shift feel are just...odd...

 

[ewpate@gmail.com]

Our 2018 Limited has been awful as regards to the Tranny. However, this most recent update (July 15 2019) that our dealership did to the transmission has fixed all of my shifting issues. I believe ESS is a big problem and we turn ours off every time we crank the car.

 

[Laura]

Our 2018 Limited has been awful as regards to the Tranny. However, this most recent update (July 15 2019) that our dealership did to the transmission has fixed all of my shifting issues. I believe ESS is a big problem and we turn ours off every time we crank the car.

Curious what issues you were having with the trans? I have a 2019 and it is very jerky shifting at slower speeds. Not the slamming people have mentioned. I am wondering if this new update will smooth out my shifting issue?

 

[Van Go]

What does shutting the engine off when you're stopped have to do with how the transmission shifts while you're moving?