[JimLuck]

Your Hybrid has a low gear?

It is labelled "L" on the shift knob. But all it is is more regen drag on the front wheels when you lift up your accelerator foot than you would have if the shift knob were in Drive.

 

[JimLuck]

Thanks for all of your replies.

To clarify, I am mostly asking about using L as a method to keep my speed down without having to use the brakes, not as something to slow down dramatically shifting from D (as I imagine just as if I were to do this in a ice with manual transmission, this could cause the car to slide).

Ultimately, I drive pretty slow in the snow and anticipate curves and downgrades such that I don't often have to make such "emergency" slow downs, so I guess I'm mostly interested in if L is going to cause any issues or be safer in those cases (ie. anticipate upcoming curvy or downhill slippery roads, and shift into L well before such that I can avoid needing to use the brakes as much to slow down vs. D.) My instincts from driving manual ice tells me it's safer, but I realize that this is a different kind of transmission, and also that I simply may have been doing it wrong (and been lucky) all those years of using lower gears in manual ice cars.

My experience with manual transmission on slick roads is that if you're simply going too fast and need to slow down quickly, either downshifting or brakes are going to potentially cause you to slide and I feel my instincts in that case are to do some combination. I think I'd likely brake lightly and if I started sliding, take my foot off the gas and downshift if I still needed to slow down (right or wrong, but beyond my teenage years I never slid off the road or into another car). So I guess I would be interested to know if L would work the same way in the Pachy as well in case of a need for an emergency slow down.

The drag from regen braking (and the efficiency gain) is the same whether caused by lifting your foot off the accelerator or putting your foot gently on the brake pedal. "Low" just makes lifting your accelerator foot more like gently pressing the brake pedal. So, no difference in skidding risk between regen braking through L vs regen braking through brake pedal. The tires and the road don't know the difference. Stronger pressure on the brake pedal activates the friction brakes on all 4 wheels, something that "L" can't do. Your anti-lock braking system should prevent braking from causing skidding, for both regen and friction braking.
see

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/regenerative-braking

 

[Anderd]

So, no difference in skidding risk between regen braking through L vs regen braking through brake pedal. The tires and the road don't know the difference.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/regenerative-braking

True, but the computer running the ABS sure does know the difference. Drive in L sometime and start to decelerate at a icy stop and see how you will be rolling.

 

[Scott N]

I’ve taken a winter driving course in Colorado with Bridgestone (with Blizzaks). They leave their vehicles in Drive. Manual transmission driving is different since you have a clutch and additional control when you’re in each gear— which you don’t have in low gear in an automatic transmission vehicle.
My previous vehicle was a Town and Country with Blizzaks which I used when I worked for a certain channel that covers weather. Even in super bad snow conditions (think Buffalo lake effect) it was very controllable with automatic transmission in drive and FWD). My Pacifica now has AWD and the combo is even better. But FWD and winter tires is very good when one drives appropriately for the conditions.

 

[Vango]

The only time I use "L" is coming off the freeway to slow down. Regen is like the dynamic brakes on a locomotive. It turns the electric motors into generators. On a locomotive, it heats grids and operates fans that cool the grids. So all it does is create resistance heating while slowing the locomotive. On our Pachy, it charges the battery. In low it creates more resistance hence slowing you down faster without using any brake pads. So you are saving the brakes. The down side is you slow down and don't have any brake lights to warn people behind you that you are slowing down. I will tap the brake pedal just to get the lights on but most times don't apply the brakes until the stop sign. So very little brake use. I see no advantage in driving around town in "L". Only when slowing down. Driving in "L" in snow would not be good in my opinion. Too much resistance on the front wheels only, I prefer to use brakes on all four wheels for better control. I really like the regen braking when coming off our mountain passes. It will hold a constant speed that the cruise is set at without ever using the brakes. We pick up 7-10% charge by the time we hit the bottom. And we don't use "L" doing this. Our Charger will run away going down the same hills and not hold it's cruise speed.
Here is the description of regen braking
Regenerative brakes work by reversing electric motors that propel a vehicle. It works like a generator and feeds energy back into the hybrid or electric system to help replenish a little bit of range. These small boosts in battery range can accumulate and improve efficiency over time when used regularly.
Your mileage may vary.

 

[lutorm]

We've now been using our PacHy with Micheline X-Ice North studded tires for about 6 weeks here in Sweden. In that time we've had temperatures between +6 and -27 C, and conditions varying between packed snow, a few inches of new snow, wet ice, slush, etc. Not once have the tires lost traction by letting off the pedal in L. (Accelerating is a different story, you really need to be feather light on the pedal...)

I always hated driving an automatic in slippery conditions precisely because you can't clutch out to minimize rolling resistance if you start skidding. When you start slipping, you want the wheels to rotate as freely as possible so they can grip the surface. This would seem to indicate that you should not use L on the PacHy when it's slippery. However, since it's designed to immediately drop regen if the wheels start slipping when you let off the pedal, this shouldn't be a concern. Yes, there would be a jarring change in behavior, but it would occur at the same time I want the wheels to spin freely, so this does not concern me.

The L regen is just not very strong anyway. When I borrowed my Dad's Volvo C40 BEV, I was amazed at how strong the "one pedal" regen was, it decelerated very strongly all the way to a stop without touching the brake. I don't know how it would behave on icy roads (although he told me that he's now turned that off during winter conditions) but the PacHy's very gentle deceleration in L isn't much concern. If that makes you slide you either need to get better tires or conditions are so terrible you really should stay off the road...

 

[RJR]

It will hold a constant speed that the cruise is set at without ever using the brakes. We pick up 7-10% charge by the time we hit the bottom. And we don't use "L" doing this ? what do you mean by this please?

 

[PacDave]

It will hold a constant speed that the cruise is set at without ever using the brakes. We pick up 7-10% charge by the time we hit the bottom. And we don't use "L" doing this ? what do you mean by this please?

There is a certain amount of regen that is programmed into the system even when you drive in “D”. When you lift your foot completely off of the accelerator there is some regen. In fact, I’m pretty sure when you’re using cruise control it will automatically use a greater amount of regen.

 

[Vango]

It will hold a constant speed that the cruise is set at without ever using the brakes. We pick up 7-10% charge by the time we hit the bottom. And we don't use "L" doing this ? what do you mean by this please?

We just leave it in D and let the car figure it out. As PacDave said, the car will figure out how much regen to use to keep a constant speed going down a hill.

 

[evergreen]

Thanks again for all the thoughtful replies. I'm feeling like with the variety of opinions it's likely that it isn't that dramatically better or worse to use L in the snow and perhaps there are circumstances, conditions, or driving styles that may work better for one or the other.

If there is more discussion or thoughts on this, bring it on, I think this is all helpful.

That being said, I'm wondering if anyone has any insight into my "bonus" question:

Bonus cold driving question: If I'm on a longer drive in cold weather and use the heat, will the van use the engine for all heat or will it use some of the resistive heater (and battery) to heat the cabin until the battery is used up? I'm wondering if it makes sense to bundle and use seat heat until the battery is used up to avoid using up battery on heat vs. running heat from the beginning on longer drives on the assumption/hope that since that engages the ice all heat will come from that instead of using up the battery and it won't impact the amount of miles the battery contributes to the drive.

 

[M0Par]

Thanks again for all the thoughtful replies. I'm feeling like with the variety of opinions it's likely that it isn't that dramatically better or worse to use L in the snow and perhaps there are circumstances, conditions, or driving styles that may work better for one or the other.

If there is more discussion or thoughts on this, bring it on, I think this is all helpful.

That being said, I'm wondering if anyone has any insight into my "bonus" question:

It will use the engine for cabin heat, however it will continue to use battery power for battery conditioning.

The reason to bundle and use seat heat is to rely on electric vs ICE. Turning on the heat will force the engine on when the temperature is low enough, usually under 32°.

 

[evergreen]

Thanks for your reply. On short cold drives (without the family anyway) I try to leave off the heat and just use the heated seat/wheel and a blanket and the engine mostly stays off so I'm not using the battery for any cabin heat. My hope on longer drives (like up to the ski areas) is that since I'll use up the entire battery anyway during the trip, turning on the heat right away will turn on the engine and pull all the heat from the ICE, and the battery won't be used for any resistive heating and will be saved for powering the vehicle only (along with some battery conditioning as you mentioned).

I guess a simpler way to ask the same thing would be: when does the resistive heater which uses battery power engage? The only time I know for sure is when the car is preconditioning and the heat is on (for my '18 using the double start press without foot on the brake move). Ironically, on very short cold trips I'd prefer it engage and the engine stay off as to avoid using gasoline, but we all know the engine turns on and then presumably while it's on the battery powered resistive heater is not being used. But what I'd like to know is whether that resistive heater ever is used for heat when driving on a longer trip with the heat on, where the ICE is engaged for much of the trip, but it's doing it's usual hybrid thing of switching between ICE and battery for propulsion.

 

[M0Par]

Thanks for your reply. On short cold drives (without the family anyway) I try to leave off the heat and just use the heated seat/wheel and a blanket and the engine mostly stays off so I'm not using the battery for any cabin heat. My hope on longer drives (like up to the ski areas) is that since I'll use up the entire battery anyway during the trip, turning on the heat right away will turn on the engine and pull all the heat from the ICE, and the battery won't be used for any resistive heating and will be saved for powering the vehicle only (along with some battery conditioning as you mentioned).

I guess a simpler way to ask the same thing would be: when does the resistive heater which uses battery power engage? The only time I know for sure is when the car is preconditioning and the heat is on (for my '18 using the double start press without foot on the brake move). Ironically, on very short cold trips I'd prefer it engage and the engine stay off as to avoid using gasoline, but we all know the engine turns on and then presumably while it's on the battery powered resistive heater is not being used. But what I'd like to know is whether that resistive heater ever is used for heat when driving on a longer trip with the heat on, where the ICE is engaged for much of the trip, but it's doing it's usual hybrid thing of switching between ICE and battery for propulsion.

Don't know the answer to that.

Regardless of whether you are using the cabin heat or not, it's still actively managing the battery and the battery range over winter months will reflect this usage by reducing range regardless of cabin heat.

 

[Barry A]

The only time I use "L" is coming off the freeway to slow down. Regen is like the dynamic brakes on a locomotive. It turns the electric motors into generators. On a locomotive, it heats grids and operates fans that cool the grids. So all it does is create resistance heating while slowing the locomotive. On our Pachy, it charges the battery. In low it creates more resistance hence slowing you down faster without using any brake pads. So you are saving the brakes. The down side is you slow down and don't have any brake lights to warn people behind you that you are slowing down. I will tap the brake pedal just to get the lights on but most times don't apply the brakes until the stop sign. So very little brake use. I see no advantage in driving around town in "L". Only when slowing down. Driving in "L" in snow would not be good in my opinion. Too much resistance on the front wheels only, I prefer to use brakes on all four wheels for better control. I really like the regen braking when coming off our mountain passes. It will hold a constant speed that the cruise is set at without ever using the brakes. We pick up 7-10% charge by the time we hit the bottom. And we don't use "L" doing this. Our Charger will run away going down the same hills and not hold it's cruise speed.
Here is the description of regen braking
Regenerative brakes work by reversing electric motors that propel a vehicle. It works like a generator and feeds energy back into the hybrid or electric system to help replenish a little bit of range. These small boosts in battery range can accumulate and improve efficiency over time when used regularly.
Your mileage may vary.

Sounds like a bad idea to me. Electric transmission engages differently than we experienced 4/5 years ago. There is no direct linkage between the tranny and the engine therefore sudden surges or deceleration could upset your current road traction. Just drive these new cars as designed. Happy and safe motoring to you.👍