I guess it depends on how well the used engine was maintained, and if anyone overtorqued the cap on the oil filter/oil cooler assembly and cracked it.

 

Yeah oil cooler would have to be replaced with brand new. Should have specified that as a condition. It doesn't add much additional expense when replacing the engine and it gives more than it's weight in gold of insurance that the engine is closer to bullet proof. These oil coolers are designed to fail.

 

The problem there is HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU'RE GETTING A GOOD USED ENGINE?

Why spend $3-5k on an unknown replacement when you can get yours fixed permanently for the same money?

 

For the money spent I think the rebuilt runs the same cost as for a new cylinder head. A brand new engine doubles or triples that cost. That's the basis for my question.

Your raise a good point about qualifying the engine and I was hoping to address that by specifying a lower mileage engine under 50k or so.

 

For all these Pacificas which have the dreaded head gasket/leaking coolant issue, wouldn't it be safer and no more expensive to replace the entire engine rather than replace a cylinder head? Dealers are quoting a cylinder head anywhere from $3,000 to $5,000. An entire used engine can be had for around $3k. Installation by an independent mechanic has to be close to the total for a cylinder head from a Chrysler dealer.



Anything missing with this approach?

Definitely not. You don't know what you're getting with a used engine. While I don't know the exact numbers for comparison, it's safe to assume there's far more labor time required for an engine replacement compared to a head job. The additional labor time for the former would negate any savings.

Regardless of what you choose to do, you can always have the repairs performed at an independent shop if you're paying for it anyways. You only need to have the work performed at a dealership if it's going to be covered by warranty. In that case you wouldn't care how much it costs. 🙂

 

Definitely not. You don't know what you're getting with a used engine. While I don't know the exact numbers for comparison, it's safe to assume there's far more labor time required for an engine replacement compared to a head job. The additional time would negate any savings in the situation you suggested.

Regardless of what you choose to do, you can always have the repairs performed at an independent shop if you're paying for it anyways. You only need to have the work performed at a dealership if it's going to be covered by warranty. In that case you wouldn't care how much it costs. 🙂

Thanks, it helps to hear other opinions.

That's three who have raised that concern about engine history. While most engines whether rebuilt or used without being rebuilt have a warranty, the labor involved is a huge cost and risk.

Is there any reason why getting a reasonable deal on a low mileage engine might shift this equation in favor of a used engine replacement rather than cyclinder head repair? Trying to work through the different angles. One thing I can think of is the potential for reoccurence in a repair.

 

Personal answer, I will always rebuild what's there over getting a used engine regardless of mileage.

I've gotten burned on enough "low mileage used" engines over the years to know that they're really only good for a core to rebuild before installing.

For reference, this engine had 40k miles with full maintenance records:

It had however developed a small radiator leak early in life, the shop used stop leak instead of replacing the radiator.
This led to numerous clogged cooling ports in the engine, which caused 2 cylinders to run hot, in turn cooking the subpar oil they were using and sludging most of the engine.

I ended up having to do a complete rebuild on it 2 days after install, along with completely redoing the vehicle's cooling system thanks to the stop leak.

I could have bought a brand new crate engine for far less then I had invested by the time it was all done.

 

Personal answer, I will always rebuild what's there over getting a used engine regardless of mileage.

I've gotten burned on enough "low mileage used" engines over the years to know that they're really only good for a core to rebuild before installing.

For reference, this engine had 40k miles with full maintenance records:

It had however developed a small radiator leak early in life, the shop used stop leak instead of replacing the radiator.
This led to numerous clogged cooling ports in the engine, which caused 2 cylinders to run hot, in turn cooking the subpar oil they were using and sludging most of the engine.

I ended up having to do a complete rebuild on it 2 days after install, along with completely redoing the vehicle's cooling system thanks to the stop leak.

I could have bought a brand new crate engine for far less then I had invested by the time it was all done.

This is all good info and does show the risks. That's why this forum is so helpful.

How did you source this engine? Maybe that could help as well.

Oh and let's add another layer of complexity. Does any of this change for the Hybrid?

 

Another factor here is you're assuming the engine of salvageable in the first place. In some cases the engine isn't salvageable, but they can't determine that until they tear it down and confirm the mounting plane on the block for the cylinder head is still completely flat.

 

What would be signs/symptoms that an engine would not be salvageable prior to doing a tear down? Based on what we have seen overheating and riding the engine after the check engine light has been tripped will result in catastrophic damage. Anything else?

 

If costs are equal, then I will trust the known vs the unknown. Mileage alone can't determine the reliability of an engine - the risk is on a sliding scale. Generally I would prefer someone rebuilding my engine that I know has been maintained, instead of something @50k that may have been abused. However, if my own car is at 200k miles or more, (and the engine has other risks) then sure - go for the lower mileage and warranty.

Sounds like you have good records for the used engine - so it's really up to you if you think your own engine is better than the used one, worse, or equivalent.

 

If costs are equal, then I will trust the known vs the unknown. Mileage alone can't determine the reliability of an engine - the risk is on a sliding scale. Generally I would prefer someone rebuilding my engine that I know has been maintained, instead of something @50k that may have been abused. However, if my own car is at 200k miles or more, (and the engine has other risks) then sure - go for the lower mileage and warranty.

Sounds like you have good records for the used engine - so it's really up to you if you think your own engine is better than the used one, worse, or equivalent.

The devil you know vs the one you don't is a good rule of thumb. And then there's the objective criteria of how much mileage is on the replacement versus the original. Good points.

 

Why wouldn't the used engine be just as likely to develop a head gasket issue? It could be only a few miles away from developing the same issue. I'd stick with original engine and fix it.

 

Definitely. One current theory is it is due to the oil cooler and so replacing that in either circumstance will help mitigate the engine from a coolant leak. OTOH, why does it have to be the oil cooler causing this issue? Can't the head gasket just be the weakest link?

 

Honest answer here is it's a head gasket so every immediately jumps to overheating.
An engine needs to get **** hot to warp something enough to blow a HG, even the average oblivious owner will shut it off long before this.

It doesn't however take much added pressure to blow one on a cylinder though. Especially with how close some of the ports are to the combustion chamber:

 

Honest answer here is it's a head gasket so every immediately jumps to overheating.
An engine needs to get **** hot to warp something enough to blow a HG, even the average oblivious owner will shut it off long before this.

It doesn't however take much added pressure to blow one on a cylinder though. Especially with how close some of the ports are to the combustion chamber: View attachment 54368

I'm trying to follow your post... The average oblivious own will shut it off before the head gasket blows?

So what is it you are stating is blowing instead?

 

Just to ask.. if replacing just the heads is like 4-5k why would you not just get a new long block for like 6k? Honestly wouldn't that be easier all around? Like I'm not saying this would fit our vans but the below is 5.7k. surely it would be more worth it?

2011 ~ 2019 - 3.6L Long Block Engine Assembly (New) - 68426944AADefault Title

This is a long block engine assembly. It comes with the 3 year/100,000 mile warranty. There is a $600 core charge in addition to the cost with this engine also that is refunded upon the return of the core engine.

www.moparaccessorygiant.com

 

Is this a recall issue? I’m in a 2017 Limited with 346,000 miles on it. 280,000 of those were put on by me.

 

No, not a recall issue. Just curious... how in the world did you put 288k miles on your Pacifica? And, more importantly, good for you!

 

My dealer has really talented mechanics who are very familiar with intricacies to Pacifica’s. My engine had a whole cooling system head gasket, radiator hoses, serpentine belt, and on and on. Boy, it’s running great. Now it took some time and patience but I feel confident on the road. I wouldn’t take a used, unknown engine with a clear head. My engine has been inspected and repaired. 🤞

 

On this topic and engine maintenance, does anyone have any insight into coil packs? My preference is Delphi over Mopar, however Bosch are more readily available... which may not be a good sign.

Edit: Found the answer: Spark plugs and coils

 

NGK for plugs.
NGK or RIPP for coils.
Delphi and Bosch are junk on these, which is why the factory Mopar coils are also junk as they're Denso cheapies.

 

My honest theory on this after owning numerous Pentastar engines. It's mild missing caused by Mopar's use of garbage Champion plugs and subpar coils and the 100k service interval. Every single Pentastar I've done plugs on has been done at 50-60k miles because it started with a mild miss under load at idle. Something that won't throw a CEL and the average minivan driver will never notice. The plugs are always eroded to over .060" gap or more. This mild miss in turn causes excess cylinder pressures. Those excess pressures in turn take out the head gasket on the rear head as people proceed to continue driving it oblivious to the miss for another 20-30k miles. Assuming it's only the rear head due to the excess heat back there, which would also explain why it's only the FWD Pentastar that has issues. People love to blame the oil cooler and call it a "weak link", yet we've replaced exactly one across our 6 Pentastar engines. The one that was replaced was immediately after having the oil changed at a "Quick Lube" while on vacation. Even our 550k+ mile, 470k mile, and 205k mile Pentastars still have the OEM cooler. Use it properly, it doesn't fail, it's the idiots doing the oil changes that are wrecking them.

Just out of curiosity what have you been doing to mitigate this, are you changing the plugs to something better at 60k? I'm curious because my 2020 just hit 60k and I'm all about changing the plugs to a better option. Thanks!

 

I swap plugs to NGK Iridium or Ruthenium.
I swap coils to NGK or RIPP.

Once that's done then I go with an 80-100k interval on plugs. The coils usually never need to be done again.

 

Thank you for the info, I will do this swap. I've used NGK Iridium since they came out in my Mercury Villager engine that has 350K. They always worked great.

 

Is this a recall issue? I’m in a 2017 Limited with 346,000 miles on it. 280,000 of those were put on by me.

Have you had to replace your transmission yet?

 

Recently sold my 10 year old Pentastar in a Ram 1500 with 96K miles and original plugs/coils, ran like a top. It was the oil cooler, rack and pinion, upper control bushings, master cylinder and fuel rail sensor failures that plagued me, and also a refrigerant leak, all in short order. The engine was solid, and you know it worked hard pushing that heavy truck around.